How to develop commanding, masculine frame/voice/presence?

Reddit View
April 27, 2019
68 upvotes

Hi there fellow Redpillers,

I have been lifting for a year now and could sense the huge boost in confidence that comes with it. However, when talking to people, it seems like I give off a weak frame/presence. For example, when I talk to girl, I find it hard to spark the attraction or at least to show a commanding, masculine frame.

My question is, how do I develop this frame? What have you done that worked for you? What did not work? Thank you.


Post Information
Title How to develop commanding, masculine frame/voice/presence?
Author adamfaliq97
Upvotes 68
Comments 69
Date 27 April 2019 08:44 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/236350
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/bhx62v/how_to_develop_commanding_masculine/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
framelift
Comments

[–]WIA20XX58 points59 points  (13 children) | Copy

Acting class and/or therapy.

If this is a legit technical problem, you are just being yourself. And your natural inclinations are not tuned to what is necessary. You don't know how to communicate your actual thoughts and feelings through body language, tone, pace, etc.

Women in the work place often complain about people not listening to them, but the work place rewards the confident person that is loud and wrong, and punishes those who are equivocal and hedging but right. A good acting class will help you express to others, CONVICTION in what you are saying.

If it's not a legit problem, therapy will help you work out your perceived inadequacy.

[–]MrMackwood20 points21 points  (4 children) | Copy

I took Broadcasting in college, gave me a HUGE edge on the speech game. Seriously under-rated. Even a basic course is communications will do you a crazy amount of good. The knowledge gained can be applied in every frontier you come into contact with. Highly recommended. Plus, sho knows, you might find something you didnt consider (the wonders of college)

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I've never head of this. Could you tell more about what you learnt and how it helped you?

[–]MrMackwood7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Confidence is key; RP speaks relentlessly on this. Confidence helps build frame and encourages you to carry on thru each and every situation, eventually becoming habit. The same rules apply for Communication, in a learning sense. Have a plan, have a route you want to take in that interview, guided by particular questions. In Broadcasting school, you are required to carry out a ridiculous amount of interviews. If you have a good sense of what you're trying to obtain in that interview, you have a better chance of obtaining it. Clearly define your goals.

Another lesson you quickly learn that you can obtain better interviews by talking your way into situations, placing you closer to "money targets". Don't ever back down from confrontation. "Fake it til you make it" applies here, there, and everywhere. Always act like you are exactly where you're supposed to be, just doing your "thang". You'd be surprised where you can get yourself by wearing the proverbial "safety jacket".

[–]resnine1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Frame doesn't just help build frame, frame isn't even possible without confidence. Confidence to frame is like a good foundational to a house.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Took a public speaking course in college, did wonders.

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Nice. I'm considering to enrol in either acting or improv class. How long have you practice acting and how did that helped you?

[–]WIA20XX15 points16 points  (2 children) | Copy

I got into sales and public speaking after I got into game. Very Similar pathways, but a class on how to convey emotion (acting) would be better.

If a guy wanted to really get good at this stuff, there are so many classes and courses and ways to study. It's really about making the mental connections between the topic and the goal.

On a different forum, an MMA guy said he adapted some of his submission holds for sex (with his consenting partner) and that mental element blew her mind. Rope play without the rope.

I say this a lot, but guys are barely scratching the surface when it comes to this stuff. They read the forums, Rollo, Roissy and Roosh but not much else. It is an echo chamber.

[–]resnine1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

People here don't step out of the bounds of the manosphere...

[–]WIA20XX5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

They should, just with the lens of hypergamy.

[–]resnine2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You don't know how to communicate your actual thoughts and feelings through body language, tone, pace,

This is my problem. I don't know what I am communicating to people. I don't know how I am being perceived by the other side. Anything else you think could help fix this?

[–]MetalstepTNG1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Agreed, except I definitely would steer clear from being "loud and wrong". That's a probable sign of weakness because usually the person is trying to compensate when they act like this. I'd say it's better to be "aggressively determined to be right" and you won't hesitate to raise your voice to show that you are right.

[–]resnine2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

People that aren't afraid to be wrong are often the ones that are most willing to take risks in life. Taking risks is respectful. It gains you confidence, you can't always be wrong. It gets you futher than being careful. It's better to be risk-taking than risk-adverse (within reason), don't go jumping off bridges.

[–]WIA20XX1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

History will tell you otherwise

[–]triiiiiple23 points24 points  (4 children) | Copy

One way that helped me a bit even though I'm struggling with the same thing is just talking to lot of women and analyzing the most probable mistakes you did if you didn't get laid.

[–]RuleTheOne2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Cool approach, analyzing yourself

[–]triiiiiple7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Analyzing yourself and also the women's point of view and their action. When I started taking the pill i was asking "if I was a girl, would this attract me?" A bit weird thing to ask when you're man but it helped me a lot

[–]resnine4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes I do this too. Also watch how men that are good with women talk and behave. Don't just watch your interactions but watch the interactions of other people too.

[–]resnine1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do field-reports those help you and the community.

[–]DerpJungler17 points18 points  (4 children) | Copy

3 things:

  1. Lift and practice confidence while at the gym. (you already do that so stay on it)

  2. Read books, listen to podcasts of people with expertise and practice the theories. "The Rational Male" (Rolo Tomassi) is the fundamental of RP imo. "The Game" (Neil Strauss) is a fun book that gives a lot of lessons on PUA side of the RP. Learn about "Cold approach", how to act like an "alpha" and how to game women in general.

  3. Most important thing: PRACTICE. Don't be afraid to approach and get rejected. Every rejection is a valuable lesson. Keep approaching and practice your game and your confidence. Practice posture, body language, rapport and your communicational skills.

TL;DR: Lift, Read, Practice, Repeat.

Get out of your comfort zone and you'll get there.

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

  1. Have been lifting for a year and definitely can vouch for the results.
  2. I have read all the books you mentioned. These days I listen to Jordan Harbinger show. It's a gem.
  3. This.

Yeah, I need to practice approaching more. But it's good to know that I'm on the right path to improve myself.

[–]dsgk_991 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

What are good podcasts?

[–]DerpJungler4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I personally prefer books and articles over podcasts, even audible when i'm travelling/walking etc. But sometimes i'd listen to Tom Torero. He has some really good videos/podcasts on gaming women etc.

Most people would recommend Joe Rogan as well, but i'm not really a fan, although i enjoyed a couple of his podcasts.

[–]AClive222 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Seconded for Tom Torero. One of the grandfathers of daygame and no man walks the walk like Tom

[–]terpredpill6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

Watch the TV show Mad Men

[–]eptx102 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Hell yeah

[–]terpredpill1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yup. Not sure how RP Don is but great example of frame and presence overall.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Roger Sterling is a perfect example of Amused Mastery

[–]boredathome1911 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

Never had that problem. Maybe try to actively watch what you say and stop asking girls to do something. Just tell them. The girl im fucking just recently told me it makes her horny when I just say "get up" because of the way I say it.

[–]damaged_goods4209 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

800mg of test e a week lmao

[–]Reprimanded_Duck 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

Testosterone boosters. Smile more. Sing in a low pitch while driving or by yourself. Practice good posture and body language.

[–]cluelessguitarist3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

I have a theory, by doing continuos uncomfortable activities such as sparring(kickboxing,bjj) and lifting will automatically change your demeanor, i find talking to a group of girls way easier than taking punches to the face,by practicing doing uncomfortable things my masculine frame is pretty high must days(unless i smoke or drink that just fucks my game a little bit but not by much). Throw yourself into the chaos and you will come as a different man.

[–]fender18782 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with this. As a paramedic/firefighter I’m always in high energy situations. It’s crazy when I got into this career years ago, a lot of things that used to be “uncomfortable” quickly became no big deal.

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is something I have been thinking of actually. "What are the things that I could do in six months of summer break that will change my demeanor?". And sparring seems like a great thing to try. Thank you!

[–]staticrain23 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stop watching pornography and don't fap. This will accumulate your "manlyness" and give you a deeper voice and confidence.

[–]tee00053 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

A book called "31 days of masculinity" is good. From this book I read about the validation and how most men tone their masculinity because of pressure from a feminised society. In other words being soft spoken and timid. This is not a Masculine frame. I had to work on my voice, how loud and the tone of what I was projecting. The book is really good at working on these issues.

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for the suggestion!

[–]goatenciusmaximus2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I had the same problem, now I think I may be starting to change it but I'm yet to see if I'm gonna have more success with women. A few things I have started doing are:

1- keep your back straight and your chin slightly tilted upwards every time you're standing/walking, if you're sitted stay in a military posture or in a very relaxed manspreading one.

2-learn not to care about what people think of you, not care if you have offended someone etc, you're not a jerk if people think you are fuck them, keep reminding yourself of that everytime.

3-Do not apologize unless you accidentally committed a mistake.

4-Do not ask permission if you don't have to. Don't say let me see it, say show me, don't say may I have one, say give me one.

5-stop watching porn, it helps to boost your confidence a lot.

This is what I've been doing and I feel way more confident, I've started college a few months ago and everyone is nice and tries to be friends with me, nobody disrespects me and I never felt so confident for taking to women.

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Really appreciate the thoughtful reply. I am consistent with 1, 3 and 5. I'm working on number 2 and 4. The book "Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck" helped me a lot with 2. Number 4 is a good point. It's a small thing, but it shows which frame are you in when you are interacting with other people.

[–]goatenciusmaximus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Glad I could help, I may have a look at that book as well.

[–]greenwaffulz4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I used to be the GOOFIEST guy with women, and didn't have a masculine frame at all. What I personally did to develop a strong masculine frame is to speak less but communicate more with sub communications. That would translate to giving a teasing smirk vs. saying a joke, or holding intense eye contact vs building tension via touching or talking. As far as voice goes, we already know that talking in a neutral to breaking rapport voice makes you seem more authoritative, no need to overdo the breaking rapport voice (when your voice pitch goes down on each sentence) otherwise it seems forced or you just seem like an asshole but definitely NO trying for rapport voice (when your voice goes up at the end of a sentence like you are asking a question).

Results: Once I started implementing these techniques I found that people saw me in a completely different manner. Before when I was the "goofy/fun" guy, women would always say "I can't take you seriously" and deep down they didn't respect me, I'd get a lot of positive reactions but I would get alot of shit tests and would have a hard time keeping women submissive. When I started to speak less, talk in the right tone and use a lot more eye contact, sure I did get pegged as a "serious guy" but on the flip side women I'd hook up with were way more submissive and invested a lot more in the relationship than I did because I was creating that vacuum.

Quick addition: I saw another comment I definitely agree with on here. Find a leadership role if you can. When you are in a position of power you naturally take on these qualities and develop more of that leader, masculine presence.

[–]tyrannosaurus_fl3x6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

So this is something that sounds weird, but is an actual technique to work to deepen your voice, singers and actors do this to warm up and train.

Look straight up. Then say "King Kong" "Ding Dong". When doing it stretch out the NG sound. You could use any phrase that's short like those, that ends in NG. What happens is that by tipping your head back you stretch your vocal cords out, then the NG sound is deep and vibrates the cords stretching them out. This temporarily serves to deepen your voice.

Do that and practice talking in a natural deep voice. It will eventually become natural for you to have the deeper voice. When I say a natural deep voice, I mean like your voice but a little deeper. You want to keep developing this in your free time. Practice using this slightly deeper voice until it becomes natural. Overtime your voice will become deeper.

[–]PM_ME_CHILL_MUSIC6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Read The Domination Principle, you will get all your answers from that book

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Who's the author? Never heard of the book. I tried to find it online but nothing relevant came out.

[–]PM_ME_CHILL_MUSIC4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

"The Domination Principle" by Mike Haines

[–]resnine2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Toastmasters class, acting class, singing class, stand-up class. Basically anything that forces you to get up in front of a large group of people. This will develop your masculine frame, voice, and presence.

[–]slayer_in_midst 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy

You need to command leadership. You should have such an effect on people, they be like damn this guy is a boss

For eg be the captain of football team, president of some club in college.

Roles which put you in position of giving orders and excel in it.

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Great! Have you been in a leader position before? How did being in position of giving orders change you?

[–]slappysq1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Lift.

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

How have lifting more help you to develop stronger, masculine frame? Did it come naturally or you just realise one day, "Oh I have a stronger frame now".

[–]ReasonableWealth1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

wtf type of question is this bro. Lifting does not really give you masculine frame directly. It is the pride you gain when you put on a well fitting shirt and girls ogle you. It is all the dudes coming up to you and saying "I wish I had your arms/shoulders". All these experiences come directly from lifting. These experiences then allow you to know your new place in the world. This gives you new confidence cause you realize how much of a beast you are. This makes you more sure of yourself/increases self love which some people call masculine frame. However, this can backfire over time if you get reliant on getting it from outside. You must have external/material approval, but at the same time not give a fuck about it at all and care only for what you think of yourself. Good luck.

Also if you really are a already a beast (lifting, getting money, trustworthy person, not an autist e.t.c) and still somehow feel weak, its cause you have too many bullies in your life, or you used to at one point. Watch who you surround yourself with. These people probably put negative thoughts in your head which makes you feel bad/weak. Or there was a moment in your past which you were weak/vulnerable, and you're basing your current identity on that. OR your current "personality" or type of person just isn't the archetype of person that would be successful where you live. How to change it? Just observe the environment and switch archetypes into an archetype that is successful in these areas and embody it with your whole being. However, be careful, if you switch up too fast, people who know you will think you're weird in the beginning and will try to pull you down. So you need to distance yourself from them while youre making the change into a beast.

Also, you need to have at least one thing about yourself that you are an absolute master of compared to 99% of the population. Some people are good at sports, some people are good at instruments/people skills/book smart. Whatever it is needs to be something that other people look at you and say "god damn adamfaliq97 is fucking amazing at _____"

[–]lifeisweirdasfuck1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Visualization.

Visualize yourself speaking how you desire to speak. All this in your mind.

Read Psychocybernetics.

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have read the book and really like it. Thank you for the suggestion.

[–]eptx101 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Read higher status by Jason Capital, goes really deep into that

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Just saw the book and it looks awesome. How did applying those principles help you to develop stronger, masculine frame?

[–]eptx101 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It shows you the 12 honest signals of a higher status male(basically alpha behavior). These are signals (think of body language, voice, movements) that can't be faked. We as humans are hardwired to detect these signals. Everyone can rent a lambo and be "higher status" but that's just surface level shit. People can fake that but people can't fake having a commanding voice and powerful eye contact.

As to how it helped me, well it honestly opened up so many doors im my life. Guys don't test you to see if you're a real man. Girls pay attention to you. And I started being the center of attention in most social situations.

It's my favorite book.

[–]User-31f64a4e1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

The root issue is how you feel about yourself.

You have started to change that, with more confidence. Kudos.

Frame is largely about point of reference. When you don't hold frame, you may have made the error of caring what unimportant people think.

Alternatively, you may think that the "rules" of social interaction are other than they really are. For example, you may feel put "on the spot" by questions. Feeling obliged to answer questions is submissiveness. Do you feel like it's OK to be disrespectful? An alpha does. Do you feel that it is OK to get what YOU want, and not care who objects? If not, you might not be an actual Alpha.

Low status males constantly worry about offending others, because that can bring ostracism, punishment, all sorts of consequences down on them. Weak men are always nice guys, hoping against hope that they never upset anyone and so avoid wrath.

If you can't hold frame, then while you may be confident enough to be an "everyday Joe" delta male (per [this scale]()), you are still not willing to be dominant. Make no mistake, holding frame is dominating other people, pushing them around in conversation.

Don't work on gimmicks, memorized lines, and so on. All of that is posturing. Eventually people see through it - frame is broken. Instead, the clever repartee will come naturally and automatically once you truly don't give a fuck about any discomfort you cause by dominating others. The state of not being intimidated will also free your mind to be more clever, and to just out and out say what you think at times.

Does all of that sound sociopathic? In a way it is, but keep in mind that dominate is not a synonym for injure or abuse or bully. That might be true on the playground in third grade, but as an adult, things are different. A true Alpha is the boss. He takes control, but he also takes responsibility. The welfare of his charges becomes (at least in part) his responsibility, as he takes on authority and makes decisions.

tl;dr - Forget gimmicks, work on your attitudes about other people.

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This is the best response in the thread so far. How did you work on not giving a fuck ? At what point did you realise the mindset has been part of yourself and you don't have to fake it till you make it anymore?

[–]User-31f64a4e1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for your kind words.

I suspect there's more than one way up that mountain, if your childhood didn't set you up that way.

Something is holding you back.

Maybe, you confuse being assertive with being aggressive. One is sticking up for yourself and your wants and needs, but in a fair and reasonable way. The other is being an asshole. Don't confuse the two and be wimpy trying to not be an asshole.

Maybe, you lack unconditional positive self regard. Not a shrink, but with google fu maybe some ideas will come up.

Maybe, some blue-pill conditioning lingers - you have to be respectful to wamyn, that sort of thing.

Without lots of 1 to 1 conversation, this is difficult to know.
As a final tip though, watch your own interactions with others, and notice how you feel. You can even replay them in your mind later, and think about, how exactly did I feel, what exact emotion(s) were going through me. The emotions will cue you in, if you observe them carefully.

[–]hockeystew0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This is insane.

[–]User-31f64a4e0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's just name calling. What is your issue with it?

[–]HurricaneHugues1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lift to build a strong physical frame. Practice productive hobbies to build a strong personal frame. Read books to build a strong mental frame. Practice leading others wheber you can to build leadership frame over time.

It doesn't happen overnight. You will gradually build your leadership qualities by practicing.

[–]masterpiece001 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wait till you are over 35 and women see you that way, if you put on some act people will see right through it and cringe.

[–]2319Skew0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Join the army. I'm serious.

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

How has being in army changed you? I have friends who was in Singaporean army and they have really good discipline.

[–]2319Skew4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I never did. It was an ultimatum that my then wife gave me that I accepted. My father, however, did join.

It gave him confidence, made him decisive, and assertive.

You're given targets to hit. You are in a masculine environment that punishes weakness and forces you to lead.

I can't imagine anything that would be better for a man.

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good point, especially about being forced to lead others.

[–]CuntarianOverlord0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

It’s not something you can developer I was born with it voice is influenced by the amount of testosterone affecting your vocal cords during puberty posture as imo is the only one oft hear that can be faked

[–]adamfaliq97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm not talking about the pitch of the voice itself, but more of how to communicate with a strong masculine frame. But yeah, deeper voice helps.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2021. All rights reserved.

created by /u/dream-hunter