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Finally identifying my frame and her frame.

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June 28, 2019

I went ape shit about 10 days ago about being rejected (yes I have learned from it, been doing stfu and idgaf since), still ended up having sex with my wife that weekend (2-3 days later) first session was fun, second was semi-starfish (she orgasmed both times though). After reading more and more about stfu and idgaf, I initiated on Wednesday night and got a soft no (she's never stern about it, just brushes it off, tired, not in the mood, etc) so I said okay, goodnight, gave her a kiss and turned over, went to sleep. She hamstered for a bit and then went to sleep.

Last night we went out for dinner and I got a bottle of wine. We got home, sat on the balcony for awhile and had a really fun convo about us first meeting, etc. (first fun and real convo in awhile with her). We got ready for bed and I initiated sex, was soft no'd, say okay all good, started watching tv, 5 min passed and I said okay goodnight, gave her a kiss and turned over. Her hamster was on overdrive. I could sense her looking at me and trying to figure out the sudden change in me.

Some time goes by and she starts touching me and trying to initiate (trying to keep me in her frame) and asked if I still wanted to fool around. At first I said nah, I don't want her to do it just to do it, if she's only doing it for me. I resisted a bit more, but she actually wanted it badly now. I let the resistance last a few more min and then I cave manned her. Went down on her, even tho she wanted a quickie (10 pm at night, early work the next morning). I also got a bj, which isn't an every time thing. It was semi-starfish sex, but I made her flip over so I could rail her doggy style ( she was resisting it at first, but I forced it). Then flipped her over on her back and she was telling me to fuck her hard, so I took this as a challenge and literally tried to break her. She noticed how aggressive I was being and although she said to slow down, she def enjoyed being dominated. I eventually slow down, got her to orgasm.

Now here is my question: I initiate and get turned down. 5 min or so later She initiates (her trying to maintain her frame), I resist for a bit saying I'm not in the mood anymore. I finally agree and I initiate it and try to fuck her really hard since she resisted me to begin with. As she was initiating, I kept thinking that I should stick to my guns and continue to say nah not interested (to maintain my frame), but I had a loaded gun (no fap and no sex for several days or so) and also a decent amount of wine in me. I know I probably should have stuck with my guns, but I didn't. In order for me to stay dominant, I demanded positions that she didn't want to do. This is the first time ever that I resisted sex from her, so I think it was completely new to her. I'm going to continue to react the way I do when she turns me down, but did I fuck up by agreeing to sex? If it happens again, should I completely resist, not interested, turned off, etc? I keep seeing mixed ideas on this. Some people say don't deny sex and others say maintain frame 100%.

I know I played into her hand a bit, but I feel like this was somewhat of a break through moment for me. I think the best thing that I got out of this was identifying each step of the situation. I have a long road ahead of me and a lot to learn, but I overall feel great that I was able to dissect this situation and learn from it.

Post Information
Title Finally identifying my frame and her frame.
Author ke3bsf6
Upvotes 14
Comments 38
Date 28 June 2019 11:17 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/243745
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/c6iyq6/finally_identifying_my_frame_and_her_frame/
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[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (3 children) | Copy

You’re overthinking shit. It was likely responsive desire in her. She initially wasn’t turned on and then her hamster started going when she initially said no. I’m of the opinion (frame) that if she ever initiates you should fuck her. It’s clear she’s horny and you can do a lot of new shit that she may resist. I think you handled it well. When she’s very horny / during ovulation is a great time to Push her boundaries and make sex what you want. The logical mind shuts down then and the primal one takes over. Denying sex when she initiates is punishing good behavior in my mind - assuming you want her to do so sometimes.

[–]FereallyRedHard Core Red11 points12 points  (8 children) | Copy

If you want to fuck her, fuck her.

You're WAY overthinking this, so worried about "frame" and your "front" that you are automatically falling into her frame by obsessing about how you'll appear to her.

See how reactive and dependent that makes you?

Her opinion DOES NOT MATTER.

1 - Rolling over does not count as withdrawal of attention. You need to initiate earlier, like before a gym session. Then if you're shut down you have plausibile deniability and can leave the premises without looking butthurt or frameless, while still doing some operant conditioning in that bad behavior = you gone. And "you gone" and horny is dreadful.

2 - If she initiates because you're feeling she is just "duty bound" or it's "makeup" sex, then you fuck her if you want to fuck her. Stop being autistic about frame.. having frame essentially is simply doing what you want to do. Since most men should be sexual, then you should be sexual.

Stop playing games.

When you try logic up and overthink things re. wife, then you are strengthening her influence over you by engaging and treating her like an opponent, instead of some cute little girl prone to temper tantrums and frankly ridiculous demands to run her teddy bear tea party at the kid's table.

Be daddy. She's cute and funny and you enjoy watching her create her drama, and that's all.

Don't be a teddy bear, she orders those around and they end up tossed in a corner when she's done playing.

You getting this?

[–]CaliEd2562 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Ooooh, I love the initiate before gym. Or whatever prior commitment you have. Instant withdrawal of attention with plausible deniability.

And I know we’re all supposedly super badasses on here, but we’ve all been bothered by rejection at some point.

So now JUST IN CASE you get butthurt, it’s way less noticeable. All the upvotes.

Last point, I think when you’re starting out, you have to overanalyze. So not a bad thing for now

[–]SteelToeShitKickerRed Beret4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I don't want her to do it just to do it, if she's only doing it for me.

The only way to have your own frame is to stop thinking shit like this. You are in your head, making your desire responsive to her desire. I only want it if she wants it. Well, guess what, she only wants it if you want it. See the problem here?

Until you can just take what you want, you will be forever in her frame.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Slightly OT, but I always liked the story of the kid pestering the sensei to be black belt. Kid is desperate to be black belt, won't shut up.

Sensei takes off his belt, hands it to the kid and say "here you go, you are a black belt now".

Moral of the story?

Getting what you want by demand is nowhere near the same as getting it because wife / sensei respect you and want to give it to you.

OP thinks he 'deserves' the black belt without the hard work.

[–]RedPill-BlackLotusRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck man, that's like that weird 3 level chess game they play in startrek, but with dicks and vaginas.

Do you have time to think about anything else?

[–]weakandsensitive4 points5 points  (13 children) | Copy

she orgasmed both times though

why the fuck would i care? more importantly, why the fuck would you care that i know?

[–]CaliEd2560 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy

If you don’t make your woman cum, someone else will. That’s why he should care.

NOT saying he should resolve his sex life around her, but yeah you want to be getting your wife off.

[–]weakandsensitive4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy

I agree he should care. I don't know why he thinks we would.

[–]CaliEd256-1 points0 points  (10 children) | Copy

That’s why it’s called AskMRP? But it’s cool, most of us need to be called faggot pussies every once in awhile.

I think that’s where you come in.

[–]RStonePT2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

approach what WNS is saying from a value perspective. Is that valuable to the question he has, the value he beings to someone trying to learn?

Or is he seeking validation from the gang, because he knocked 2 out of the park?

[–]CaliEd2561 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yes, I think it’s pertinent. The whole post is about sex, so it’s another piece of the puzzle.

No, I don’t think he’s seeking validation.

[–]RStonePT1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

We don't have to think though, WAS's approach is time tested and true.

what, you thought his internet tough guy schtick was emotional?

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You guys need to start tracking her cycle. Guarantee she was ovulating. It doesn’t mean shit, and you’re trying to find meaning out of it

[–]CaliEd2560 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah, this is huge. The apps are free, and it totally helps you be aware.

I used to get so annoyed with the comfort tests, like fuck how many times do I have to hug you? But then realized she was PMSing.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I never used any app, just tracked it on my calendar. It’s good to know where she is . I especially like to know when ovulation is so I can get ready for a sex-fest. And yeah, PMS is good to know also for comfort tests and being ready to remove presence when she gets too cranky. It’s shocking how women’s hormones are constantly taking them on an emotional roller coaster

[–]SepeanRed Beret3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

You can do it either way, but do it in your frame.

I don’t do makeup sex. I’m not into fucking a non-submissive, I’m not going to reward her with sex, and she can’t just use sex to undo a fuckup.

The other route is that you want to fuck, and you’re unaffected by her tirades. Go ahead and make her work for it and the whole she’s been a bad girl thing. This is probably the smarter route, but what is your frame?

Stop thinking so much about her and figure out what you want, and stick to it.

[–]CaliEd2561 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

No, you didn’t fuck up. And denying her sex would have been a mistake.

You handled it perfectly when you cave manned and then forced doggy style out of her. Essentially, “if you want the D, we are doing it MY WAY.”

Good recovery.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Should have bent her over the railing and fucked her on the balcony.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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