CMV: Feminism is amoral, while TBP is inherently concerned with morals

KrispyMcSockington · 2017-04-13T18:24:55+00:00

According to feminists, women have long been denied rights and privileges and it is moral and just for them to have those rights and privileges. Abortion isn't just about power but also about the moral right to choose your own destiny and control your own body. Feminism isn't about accruing power over men. It is about doing right by women and striving for equality.

Blue Pillers here don't agree on everything or all share the same moral frameworks but we do all agree that TRP does not work and is immoral in that it is misogynist.

[deleted] · 2017-04-13T18:45:16+00:00

Could you please tell us what definition of morality you are using?

Every one of the things you listed has a moral element to it.

BiggerDthanYou · 2017-04-13T18:28:15+00:00

Was this post meant as an actual argument or just as an example of dichotomous thinking and logical flaws?

Unlike TBP, feminism is concerned only with the power and control of the situation, not the morals.

Both of these things can be true at the same time. Just because you think in black and white doesn't mean that they do so as well.

With dread, or negging, their concern is men having a superior position or upper-hand in the situation. Because women are oppressed or the less privileged gender, this is wrong.

Did you just open up a pack of straw or is this deliberately a bad argument?

Which feminist has even said that dread or negging are wrong because it gives men the upper hand? I'd say that literally every one of them will agree that it's bad because you are deliberately making your partner feel bad to control them and also literally all of them will agree that this is wrong regardless of which gender does it.

There is no arguments concerned with the morality of women having the ability to abort.

Oh no a site about not being ashamed of their abortions isn't moralizing them and doesn't tell them that they are bad for having made that tough decision.

And again was this meant as an actual argument or are you just a troll from TBP that tries to give us more content to make fun of?

Feminism, however, defines rape as power and not sex. Feminism's focus on rape is amoral. They are concerned with the power exerted through rape, from men onto women.

And again those things aren't mutually exclusive. Something can be about power and morally wrong at the same time.

They are saying that rape-rape usually doesn't happen because the rapist is craving sex, but because they are craving power. And that's not just every feminists are saying, that's what psychologists and rapists themselves are saying as well.

This is why feminism commonly uses the concept of "teach men not to rape", because they focus on the idea of taming the power men have over women.

But they know that they can't stop actual rapists (but get them convicted easier if their peers don't just look away). Teaching people how consent works is just something that is necessary considering that many don't have a good grasp on it or are looking for any kind of loopholes they can find.

Rather it's because they don't want men that don't understand consent to accidentally rape women because they didn't know that being passed out drunk isn't an invitation for sex even if she was dressing like a slut.

HugMuffin · 2017-04-13T20:27:53+00:00

I dunno about other feminists, but I'm of the opinion that this isn't an accurate representation of our points.

Unlike TBP, feminism is concerned only with the power and control of the situation, not the morals. With dread, or negging, their concern is men having a superior position or upper-hand in the situation. Because women are oppressed or the less privileged gender, this is wrong.

I would argue that women having disadvantages in society is a moral wrong. Equality of opportunity, and all that.

Another example is with abortions. Feminism doesn't advocate for abortion on the basis of morals, they do so on the basis of rights and power. Take this site for example Shout your abortion. The site is about women celebrating and spreading the word about their abortions. Every bit of it is concerned with the female acquisition of power over her reproductive system. There is no arguments concerned with the morality of women having the ability to abort.

The idea of an abortion being a human right is in itself a moral issue. From (some) feminist perspectives, denying women the option to abort is an affront to their right to control their body.

This also occurs with rape and sexual assault. TBP approaches rape as a stance of "we stand against this because it's wrong to violate someone's consent". Feminism, however, defines rape as power and not sex. Feminism's focus on rape is amoral. They are concerned with the power exerted through rape, from men onto women.

Feminists believe that rape is motivated by the need for power, not that power should be the sole reason for decrying rape. This is also a moral issue, as feminists believe they should have control over their bodies as a right.

In short, this post is kind of silly in that it assumes that because power and control are involved in feminist issues, morality must not be. That's a false dichotomy. Both can be involved, and are often intertwined.

[deleted] · 2017-04-13T18:23:31+00:00

people having different morals than you != amorality.

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the_calibre_cat · 2017-04-13T18:34:32+00:00

Feminism doesn't advocate for abortion on the basis of morals, they do so on the basis of rights and power.

Whaaaaaat.

IIHotelYorba · 2017-04-13T20:25:53+00:00

It's immoral because they treat men as subhuman: deserving of less rights, and needing to be controlled like dangerous animals.

SetConsumes · 2017-04-13T21:27:05+00:00

Feminism is totally a moral stand point. They say how things should be to be good and if they're not that way then things are bad.

Patriarchy is bad, inequality is bad, etc, etc.

Tbp is moral too, typically with progressive liberal beliefs.

despisedlove2 · 2017-04-14T01:42:48+00:00

TBP and morals don't belong in the same sentence.

Most of them, besides tradcons, wouldn't know character even if it bit them on the face.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2017-04-14T04:37:12+00:00

Whilst I agree quite a bit of contemporary feminism seems focused on getting power over men, your separation of morality from power is an error.

Whom should have power? If so, why? These are moral questions. How should power be exercised, for what purposes? Again, a moral question, particularly when we're talking about social power/influence rather than political power.

Contemporary feminism believes that it is immoral for men to have power over women in basically any circumstance. This isn't unconcerned with morality.

badnews4u · 2017-04-14T07:09:42+00:00

I cant imagine thinking like you do. Bonus points if youre a guy

cuittler · 2017-04-13T19:28:35+00:00

This is why feminism commonly uses the concept of "teach men not to rape", because they focus on the idea of taming the power men have over women.

You didn't bother to look up what is meant by this, did you.

It's a response to victim blaming rape victims, like telling them not to dress or act provacatively with the implication that men cannot control themselves and will rape them. So feminists instead say teach men not to rape, don't teach women not to "provoke" men as if being raped was their fault and not the person who took it upon themselves to be a rapist.

Title	CMV: Feminism is amoral, while TBP is inherently concerned with morals
Author	soccerstar77
Upvotes	1
Comments	34
Date	April 13, 2017 6:06 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6576mw/cmv_feminism_is_amoral_while_tbp_is_inherently/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-feminism-is-amoral-while-tbp-is-inherently.268895 https://theredarchive.com/post/268895

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