Common RP Arguments: One BP's Responses

Lonny_zone · 2016-02-01T06:26:38+00:00

Who in TRP said they aren't willing to assume the risk of entering the western SMP? Only MGTOW aren't willing or able to assume the risk.
I don't think anyone in TRP has claimed that white men don't have it easier than other races.
The amount of woman hating from the subreddit is out of control. If you look at the prominent and notable red pill (RP not TRP) blogs, it is all about the theory.

If feminists were so eager to support the other "oppressed" groups they would be rallying against Murder Culture and not Rape Culture.

I believe that neither rape or murder are supported by our western culture, but a better case could be made for the more prominent problem of murder. Feminists don't do that because using "Rape Culture" is a shield so that you cannot criticize modern feminism and it's more ridiculous components (like sexist air conditioning) because they can claim you are pro-rape.

More men commit suicide then commit rape. More men are murdered than women are raped (and if sexy video game chatacters promote rape culture then surely first person shooters promote murder, right?)

They bandy about Rape Culture to support their more objectionable ideas.

dakru · 2016-02-01T01:48:26+00:00

In relation to the first point, this is an ironic argument coming from TRP, whose entire existence stemmed from the existence feminism whom they claim is oppressing them.

I rarely, if ever, see TRPers talk in terms of men being "oppressed".

In general though, this is also a poor point. There are many valid things to be upset about, and they should not be dismissed because "others have it worse".

If someone says "you're not oppressed in the Western world", it doesn't mean that you don't have any concerns or anything to be upset about, only that they aren't bad enough to be considered "oppression".

I was chatting with a friend who was applying for university engineering co-op jobs this past month, and he mentioned that (as an Asian) he got a 80% response rate when he used his "white" name (Peter) whereas the applications where he used his Chinese name got a 20% response. Same application, same skillset, same person, no accent (not that it mattered). If you're a white male, chances are you're getting where you want to go. Affirmative action isn't infringing on your space more than you want it to.

The fact that men on average make more money than women is often used as an example of women being "oppressed". The fact that white people on average make more money than black people is often treated similarly. But if you look at Asian people, they make more money than white people. Does that mean white people are oppressed?

(That's just to make a point; I don't actually think white people are oppressed. In comparison to black people they have it pretty good, while in comparison to Asian people it's a mixed bag. Lower average salaries, but they probably face less racism. The problem with a lot of social justice approaches that I see is that they lack the ability to recognize nuance; you're either privileged or oppressed, and there's no in between state.)

Karlo20 · 2016-02-01T01:52:19+00:00

If this were true, then TRP shouldn't exist because comparatively, men in "the West" have it so easy compared to men worldwide. We have the ability to choose who we are with, and are free to have preferences in terms of how the relationship goes.

Western white women are without a doubt the most privileged class of people in the entire world, it's not just that they "have it easy" compared to other people around the world, they are literally the most privileged beings on this entire earth and still wish to complain. Your entire argument against this is "oh well you can fuck who you want so shut up" which really is quite ludicrous.

here I think that TRP goes awry in this regard is that they want both the freedom to explore sexually and simultaneously be free from the consequences of active sexuality.

I actually agree with this, I have seen a few posts where for example a TRPer talks about girls being "sex positive"(i.e. sluts) as being good, as that means more girls to have sex with. TRPer will then however hold negative views of people such as single mothers and post-wall skanks, when realistically this "sex positive" behavior is the cause of it all.

However, in my opinion it's disingenuous to desire all of the sex while at the same time demanding that the implied risks be removed from the equation.

This doesn't make sense however. Why shouldn't someone want to take away risks which could be very serious when engaging in something?

this is an ironic argument coming from TRP, whose entire existence stemmed from the existence feminism whom they claim is oppressing them

I don't believe TRP states any such thing that men are oppressed by women, that would be more the territory of the MRA/MGTOW and their incessant need to be the victim. However, I will state that at this point, if anyone actually is oppressed in the west then I don't see how you could claim it is any class other than straight white males, suicide rates alone should convince you of this.

Let's look at the rise of depression, the 2008 housing market crash, government corruption, excessive consumer culture, etc.

All shitty things but by no means are they oppression.

I was chatting with a friend who was applying for university engineering co-op jobs this past month, and he mentioned that (as an Asian) he got a 80% response rate when he used his "white" name (Peter) whereas the applications where he used his Chinese name got a 20% response. Same application, same skillset, same person, no accent (not that it mattered). If you're a white male, chances are you're getting where you want to go. Affirmative action isn't infringing on your space more than you want it to.

Completely anecdotal and useless, but on that note, did you know that in 2015 women were 35% more likely to enter university then men, and whites were the least likely to enter higher education in 2015? So much for affirmative action not "infringing on my space".

Third-wave feminism is currently addressing its previously exclusive properties and is growing to amend for them

You mean it's growing into a conglomerate with the rest of the SJW hivemind.

Maybe it's too early in the RP timeline, but I think it's a little disquieting that there's still such a large anger problem and finger-pointing

So not only are you trying to pretend men are not being screwed over, you are also saying they have no right to be angry if they have? Isn't that victim-blaming Mr SJW?

Personally, I love and can openly endorse /r/MensLib for "explor[ing] and address[ing] men's issues in a positive and solutions-focused way." It's mature, insightful, and yeah women are called out on feminist BS sometimes.

Great, but why is this necessary when feminism claims to be for equality of BOTH genders? A mens rights movement should not need to exist since we have feminism, the only conclusion is feminism is not all you are making it out to be.

Despite the calls for self-improvement, zen, and self-responsibility, the amount of women-blaming in TRP is a little bit absurd.

Because women can never be blamed for anything? They are adults too you know.

But it's certainly not feminism's fault that crazy women exist.

Maybe not, but it is certainly there fault that certain craziness has been allowed to propagate.

[deleted] · Mon Feb 1 2:32:31 2016 UTC

[permanently deleted]

nope_nic_tesla · 2016-02-01T06:19:13+00:00

If this were true, then TRP shouldn't exist because comparatively, men in "the West" have it so easy compared to men worldwide

Wouldn't the same logic apply to white women feminism then? Doing this regression to who has it worse will only end in that as long as there is people starving and being killed in wars, nobody else has any right to complain. This is not a constructive way of solving problems.

If you're a white male, chances are you're getting where you want to go. Affirmative action isn't infringing on your space more than you want it to.

And the same applies to white middle class women.

Personally, I love and can openly endorse /r/MensLib for "explor[ing] and address[ing] men's issues in a positive and solutions-focused way." It's mature, insightful, and yeah women are called out on feminist BS sometimes.

I frequent menslib and my reaction is that it is the worst self-flagellation I have ever seen. It is only acceptable to discuss men's issues, if it is a given from the start that women have no part in the problems of men. Some questions I have never seen answered from so called male-centered feminism.

Why is it called "right to express preference" when a female blogger drools openly over the big black man, with the big black dick? But it is called racism when a male blogger blogs about the tiny asian woman?
Why is porn deemed to objectify women, when there are all kinds of women in porn. Fat, thin, tall, short, bald, blond, busty, flat etc. But the only man that is seen is a big dick?
Why is it so horrible that men don't want to have a partner that has had too many previous partners, but it is called "right to preference" when a woman openly says that an older male virgin must be defective, otherwise he would have had multiple partners and she doesn't want anything to do with him?
Why am I as a man expected to police my male friends if they should happen to say things that are hostile to women, but women can't be expected to keep their legs closed for assholes that make life a living hell for other men? In fact, asking this is often called "being entitled" and "wanting to curtail the female sexual freedom".
Why is it that I am as a man am unable to reflect on my own male privilege by definition, but women are perfectly capable of deeming that they as women have no special privilege? In fact, why do male advantages exist on their own, regardless of their consequences or associated costs, while any female advantage is disqualified because it is "benevolent sexism"?
Continuing on this, why is it acceptable to call male muscle men in advertising a "male power fantasy" and saying that it is not what most women find attractive, thus absolving women of any responsibility for male body image issues. Yes when female fashion models are discussed, bringing forth the argument that it is not what most men find attractive, and that most of fashion is dominated by women is not a valid argument?
And as I am old enough to remember when it was the height of being unfashionable to play video games and play table top RPGs, and having experienced first hand how women would tell incredibly cruel jokes at my expense over this. Why is it that I was incredibly privileged to be able to retreat to a dungeon with my loser friends and play some DnD, while the poor poor women who told jokes about how we would never see a vagina in real life were really the victims who wanted nothing more than to be included? Why are our "lived experiences" totally erased, but we are supposed to accept the female lived experience without question?
And to finish it off, on a personal level. Why is it ok to tell me that I must be morally defective and that is why women reject me, yet the people who subjected me to physical violence and held weekly lectures about how worthless and incompetent I am all have partners. Are they not morally defective, or is it that I am guilty of some even more horrible crime that I am not aware off? Start answering these questions, without resorting to "patriarchy", "privilege", "Nice Guy (tm)", "Male Sexual Entitlement" or "The Fragile Male Ego", and I will give menslib a second chance.

Whisper · 2016-02-02T23:45:59+00:00

There are no "waves" of feminism.

Feminism isn't really a school of thought or even a movement. It is a rhetorical algorithm for exploiting male protective instinct to secure more gimmedats.

Identify a problem you have, or something you want.
Construct a narrative in which the problem, or not having the thing, is a result of cruelty by men towards all women.
Tell this narrative to men over and over.
Wait for a certain percentage of men to fall victim to their protective instincts and give you what you want.

There has been no change in feminism at all. It just gets applied to new gimmedats as the old gimmedats are secured.

Xemnas81 · 2016-02-01T00:45:10+00:00

I'm going to quote my Facebook feed's current random post, DismantleMisogyny (because I've started getting inundated with gender war articles even on FB smh)

edit: No fuck this it's on Tumblr

I’m a guy, and I need feminism. Not “men’s rights.” Feminism. Here is why.

Everything that MRAs talk about that men can’t do or are socially punished for arise directly and immediately from misogyny. Not “misandry.” Misogyny.

Whether I am expressing my emotions, playing with children, baking, having sex wherein I am penetrated in any way, wearing the wrong color, talking the wrong way, moving the wrong way, being sexually harassed/assaulted, or paying too little attention to looking like I’m not paying attention to how I look, when society punishes me or derides me or marginalizes me for these things, it is happening because they are things women, not men, are expected to do, and our society at large fucking hates women.

Has that sunk in yet?

Men, can you even think of a single goddamn way you have ever been mocked that wasn’t related to something that a misogynist society sees as feminizing? Even when large men are mocked for their bodies, they are referred to as having “man-boobs,” for fucks sake.

How do you expect to improve those things with “men’s rights?” What right are you fighting for? I can tell you what I think you’re fighting for. I think you’re fighting for the right to contain and control misogyny, and direct it back at women, where you think it belongs. You want to maintain your privilege but erase its consequences, and that’s why your movement is farcical; it’s a big fucking feedback loop. How do you expect men to be free from the peripheral effects of misogyny when you refuse to even fucking believe it’s real?

As ever they just TOTALLY IGNORE EVOLUTION and hypergamy/parental investment/r/K mate selection which is the ultimate, long term cause of gynocentric policy rooted in the female in-group/male out-group baises

Interversity · 2016-02-01T00:49:21+00:00

There are many valid things to be upset about, and they should not be dismissed because "others have it worse".

This is absolutely correct. I fully agree.

Maybe not (in most cases), but that is no excuse (in my mind, at least) to disregard them as non-factors in improving society.

This misrepresents the issue that is had with people claiming to be oppressed. No one could reasonably suggest we don't have things that need improvement. All types of people have some privileges and some disadvantages, and some are arguably more privileged than others, no doubt. But this does not equate to oppression.

Again - the issues are legitimate. We should work to fix them. Dismissing them completely is disingenuous and counterproductive. But they do not constitute oppression. That is all.

/r/MensLib

Hardly representative of feminism, they barely have more subs than PPD.

I agree with everything else.

Apexk9 · 2016-02-01T00:54:37+00:00

Feminists/SJWs/Bloopers/etc. shouldn't complain because they have it easy comparatively to other people around the world.

People shouldn't complain because anything you're complaining about is either a) your own fucking fault or b) not gonna make a fucking difference.

Feminists/SJWs are not really oppressed; no one is in "the West" In relation to the first point, this is an ironic argument coming from TRP, whose entire existence stemmed from the existence feminism whom they claim is oppressing them

Their entire existence stemmed from them trying to get their dicks wet.

Title	Common RP Arguments: One BP's Responses
Author	AMuseXD
Upvotes	2
Comments	35
Date	February 1, 2016 12:36 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/43lvqj/common_rp_arguments_one_bps_responses/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/common-rp-arguments-one-bps-responses.276551 https://theredarchive.com/post/276551

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