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[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Why are you generalising all feminine women as being exactly like the mormon women you've met?
I have a girlfriend who is submissive and certainly feminine and she is amazing and not at all backstabbing or bitchy. We're also never having kids so we'll never have the concern of worrying about buying a big house, paying for school, or any of that bullshit. Just a luxury apartment and a Lambo plz.
As for your dislike of feminine women in general, well that's just like, your opinion, man. No seriously. Because, you know, people like different qualities in their partners and you are just using this mormon thing as confirmation bias for your existing views.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Just a luxury apartment and a Lambo plz.
Dat kid-free life doe xD
As for the rest, I agree. Using a handful of women with a certain quality to paint every woman who shares that same quality in a bad light is dumb and fuels confirmation bias. It's a personal opinion.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Dual Income No Kids is where it's fuckin at!
Exactly.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's almost every college kid who just so happens to be pretty career minded's dream!
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I honestly do not get why more people don't do it. But that's a discussion for /r/childfree not PPD.
[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
''Back-stabbing and avaricious''
...And go-getting career women aren't?
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
they are.
I shouldnt have said career women, since most of them are proles who obsessively chase mammon.
I mean the rare woman who has drawn herself above the crowd. Definitely not feminine, but not likely a career woman either
[–]Lucy_Furrmeh1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
like the rare man
trust me, this thread could easily go either way
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Is this in Utah? Because the Mormons there have their own special culture compared to Mormons pretty much anywhere else.
No. But I imagine it is even worse in Utah!
That sounds like a Utah Mormon thing where everyone worries about how successful and Mormon they appear. I've never encountered that sentiment so uniformly in Mormon communities anywhere else.
Wives aren't gun molls, Essex, those are characteristics you WANT in a Madonna (sans backsabbing cattiness), not in a whore
[–]stats1351 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If anything, this post makes me more attracted to feminine women. Its the same argument as why I won't marry a slut. I'm not going to pay half of everything I own for the same women that other people had have sex with by just buying her a drink. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free. If you, a stranger at worst, acquaintance at best to these women, can see the interesting side of these women, what have these Mormon men married them for?
The "RPW" that I like isn't a women that will give out here goods indiscriminately. I want a women that can give me sex on tap, but not lets other men touch her. I want a women that is not embarrassed to try new things with me, but be conservative and shy (dull and timid) among outsiders. I want a women that I can hold conversations without holding back, but be reserved with strangers.
[–]TheTerrorSquadlab rat1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I am not dull. I am not timid. I am not quiet and I am certainly not a back stabber.I am not impressed by wealth. I may enjoy it and want it if I can but it most definitely doesn't impress me. I am also very feminine. To put your narrow idea of women being feminine in the bracket that you do is fatuous as it is way more complex then that.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The fact that you had to come in here and justify yourself means you've already lost. Like all women, you are obsessed with the image you present to others, and your biggest fear is that someone thinks poorly of you. I imagine you wake up in a cold sweat at night, with the thought that ISIS fighters in Iraq don't like you.
[–]TheTerrorSquadlab rat0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes that's exactly what I do :-)
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
lol @ posting a title like that and then telling women who respond to it that their very response means they are wrong. Dorky shit dude.
[–]mcmur1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You know what? I completely agree.
Feminine woman are a pain in the ass. The more masculine traits a woman picks up, the more I like her.
[–]TempestTcupPost Pill3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link
I'm a RPW and a successful accountant. I am a leader at work. You can do both you know. You can have a brain and be feminine; it's not all or nothing, black or white.
[–]totes_meta_bot0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
Why define yourself by predetermined boxes anyway? I don't see the point in it at all.
[–]TempestTcupPost Pill1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
I don't define myself - I am ever changing. This is what I am today.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
You describe yourself as "feminine" and from what I can tell that is not defined by you personally. That's what I mean. What is the purpose of that? Does it have any purpose beyond the internet?
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link
Sorry to get in the middle of you two but your questions sparked me.
You describe yourself as "feminine" and from what I can tell that is not defined by you personally
It is though, in part. For me, choosing to work towards being more feminine is about two things.
Educated choices. Searching and trying new methods (especially if my own ideas aren't working) in order to better understand how my partnership's goals are effected negatively and positively by my ideas and behaviors. I need research and testimony and an arena of ideas to come to agreement and disagreement with and formulate a new path towards success (
Living by a PERSONAL code. - It has to be personal. I'm not going to stick to and implement well a plan or behavior that goes against my core truths or morals or integrity or what ever you want to call it.
It's me with all my warts and pretties navigating the world with a partner and learning what best works for us based on our natures and goals.
It's hand in hand by definition, if I'm making any sense at all.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
The thing is, when it is put out like this, yes I totally get it. Yes, I can understand self improvement based off a relationship constraint. Especially in a marriage when it has to deal with two people. You cannot be completely selfish in this regard. You have to deal with the relationship constraints, this is where most marriages fail.
I was talking with Tempest it really baffles to me as to what if any of that has to deal with being "feminine." She describes it as the opposite of masculine, which I disagree. It's not to say you can't define this word any way you like. It's just that the use of it is confusing. As for what it has to deal with your relationship it may or may not apply. But I guess that depends on how you define the word as well.
Maybe you could explain what you DO feel the word feminine means then because that part is so far missing from this thread. I can't really respond well without knowing your side.
Yup. Okay. I just responded this to Tempest so I hope quoting it helps.
To be feminine, is to be what women do as a whole. We describe certain physical traits as feminine because women have that trait more so than men. We describe certain activities as feminine because women do it more so than men. Feminine is not defined by any one woman but rather what the group does as a whole. Likewise masculine is the same thing but use men as the baseline rather than women. This is the reason that I disagree with opposites. In some cases yes they are opposite of each other. However, what each group does (men or women) changes over time. Trends change over time. A good example is the world of computer science... which is historically based off automatic looms. (The first use of punch cards and binary can be found here.) Yet today we consider this field very masculine despite its feminine roots. We do that because most people in this field are men.
To be feminine, is to be what women do as a whole. We describe certain physical traits as feminine because women have that trait more so than men. We describe certain activities as feminine because women do it more so than men. Feminine is not defined by any one woman but rather what the group does as a whole.
Likewise masculine is the same thing but use men as the baseline rather than women.
This is the reason that I disagree with opposites. In some cases yes they are opposite of each other. However, what each group does (men or women) changes over time. Trends change over time. A good example is the world of computer science... which is historically based off automatic looms. (The first use of punch cards and binary can be found here.) Yet today we consider this field very masculine despite its feminine roots. We do that because most people in this field are men.
[–]TempestTcupPost Pill0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, I wasn't explaining it well, sorry!
Feminine (girly maybe?) and masculine (manly). For a large part of the population the feminine, womanly arts traditionally, attracts the masculine, protective sort. This isn't necessarily so for all of course, and there are plenty of good relationships with both partners nearer the middle of the scale.
To be 100% feminine might be the doormat the OP described above, and to be 100% masculine might be a thuggish brute. I have found that when I decided to become more feminine and traditionally womanly (sweet soft etc.) my husband became more masculine and traditionally manly (powerful protective etc.). It's a yin/yang sort of thing.
I think in today's society the definitions get skewed because women are becoming more manly with high-powered careers and living on their own and men are becoming more womanly by being shushed and not allowed to act like boys when young (my personal observation - YMMV) so womanly is now more masculine than in the past and manly is more feminine due to the civilizing effects of today's world.
That is my view, anyway.
This is valid. In fact I would agree, because women now have different expectations placed on them then they did before. More expectations are placed on women as a result of the feminist movement, namely to be self-sufficient. Which means to have a job, and to have a job is a traditionally masculine thing. Eventually, I feel that we won't attribute having a career to be masculine. As a result of the way things are headed, it will be hard to.
As for my own personal experiences. My SO likes it when I cook, wear dresses and the fact that I can fix clothes. Cleaning is a non-issue for him, because I have a lower threshold for dirty and will just clean when it bothers me. But on the flip side he also likes that I can build robots with him and program robots to do different things. This is because we are in the 'maker' community. It was neat for him to come home to a robot doing something else than it was supposed to do. His words were "It makes life more interesting." While neither of us want real children you could argue that we have plenty of mechanical children already. (Our real life friends totally do argue this..)
[–]TempestTcupPost Pill0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes, like I was trying to explain to the OP, you can do both: have a brain and still be feminine. I've always worked in male-dominated industries, so I have to be tough at work and then it's difficult to be softer at home. It's actually a huge relief to be able to relax and not be in charge when I get home, and I find that cooking is a great stress-reducer after work.
My husband and I are more action type hobbyists: flying airplanes, skydiving, road trips, renovating houses, masonry (I have become skilled at finishing concrete), dive bars :)
Robots are fun - when I was a kid we had all sorts of toys where you could make mechanical robotic things - pulleys etc as opposed to servos etc. Toys back then were much more creative I think than what I see today: more hands on.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
None of the Mormons, who have feminine wives, are really masculine men.
THey are dorky, not in great shape, small frame -- I dwarf all these guys --- I am a pretty big guy, I am 1/2 Samoan, and I'm a steroid user, but i know plenty of guys at the Golds Gym who are much bigger than me, they have nerdy hobbies (video or board games, electronics), introverted, etc.
Masculine to me = tattooed up, at least 6'2", slayer jock, with robust frame, collegiate athlete in a contact sport (football, lacrosse, hockey) or baseball, low inhibition, usually a hard drinker or casual drug user, extroverted and loud.
[–]throwawayjapanese0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The first half that description sounds like The Rock. The second half sounds like the asshole that everyone knows and no one likes.
[–]TempestTcupPost Pill0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
It means that I am not masculine; I am inclined towards feminine.
Does it have any purpose beyond the internet?
Yes, my husband enjoys it, and I enjoy that my husband enjoys it :)
See I think this is kind of circular thinking. Your husband enjoys you being "feminine." So your husband defines what is "feminine," then? He gets to say what is okay and not okay?
What is "feminine"? What is "masculine"? Women are feminine because we use what women do to define it. Saying "I am feminine woman" is redundant.
[–]TempestTcupPost Pill0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Look, if you don't understand, then you will probably never understand. To understand, you would have to open your mind and let new ideas in.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I am trying to understand. That is why I'm asking questions. Which is the very opposite of having a closed mind.
Regardless you still haven't even bothered to define "feminine" beyond "my husband likes it..." That's great, but kind of useless to anyone but yourself.
Feminine is the opposite of masculine. If you don't know what masculine is then go to a tough biker bar on a sunny afternoon and watch; you will see masculine in action. Biker bars are the last bastion of unrestrained masculinity (except maybe gangs and prison, etc.) :)
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I see this is where the disconnect is, I guess. I do not view feminine as the opposite of masculine but rather these are two things that have nothing to do with each other. Thanks for answering my questions. :)
[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points 11 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
Accounting doesn't require brains, just the ability to absorb the latent sadism of the partners, the insane demands of the clients, and stomach endless Seamless dinners. It's a career and the most risk-averse, boring career possible.
Great female artists, mathematicians, philosophers, etc. are as rare as Jewish running backs.
Genius is simply maleness personified.
[–]TempestTcupPost Pill2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
LOL, I make a shit-ton of $$$ though :)
Works for me!
[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
That's fine. But how many women are like...say...Paul Erdos? Doing something that is so mentally demanding that is actually dangerous to your health for peanuts?
Maybe one, two, in all history?
[–]davedcne1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Paul Erdos
A non comprehensive list of female mathmaticians. Since you don't seem to be a mathmatician your self I'll note that its more than one or two.
http://www.agnesscott.edu/lriddle/women/alpha.htm
[–]TempestTcupPost Pill1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Who cares? How does that affect my life in the least? Me and mine are all I really care about; the rest can go hang.
[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
This is why females are born slaves.
[–]powerkickPoly, Bi, Blue, Betafag6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
TRP
A strawman so big it could host its own Buuurrrning Maaaaaannn!
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You realize you don't understand what a strawman is, right? PLease tell me exactly WHAT argument TRP is mischaracterizing and then arguing against to warrant its entire corpus of ideas to be called a strawman?
[–]powerkickPoly, Bi, Blue, Betafag1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You're just gonna up and ignore that EssexCounty classifies you as a slave? Like, this guy could just see you on the street and demand a blowjob from you? And he could EXPECT that blowjob to happen? You're just gonna gloss over that?
You're right, I thought a straw man argument was the sweeping generalization fallacy, but that's not what it is.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What do I care what he thinks?
[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Nope. I've met plenty of women who are much smarter than me, but they are still overwhelmingly conformist cowards whose greatest fear is being seen as different.
They are natural slaves.
[–]powerkickPoly, Bi, Blue, Betafag2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't think you quite understand the premise of slavery. You could walk up to any one of these feminine women doing whatever she may be doing, throw a box at her, and say "bring that to my car."
If you don't have some established relationship with her, she's probably just going to throw it back at you and say "fuck you!"
[–][deleted] 6 points6 points6 points 11 years ago | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
Hahahaha, dream on :)
[–]silenceoftheham1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Those men are not alpha if they let their women act like that. A real man wouldn't let his woman run over him.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
most alpha men are in prison, or something like warlords in chechyna, africa, gangsters in eastern europe, etc.
you can't be a middle class alpha, in America. i suppose we could say that if you are a billionaire, like carlos slim or bill gates or warren buffet, you are alpha, since you can do what you want.
[–]silenceoftheham1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
alpha is relative... and it does not involve engaging in criminal activities. Alpha is your mindset and attitude, not your social status/wealth/body/looks.
Alpha is 8 inch wrists, 24 inch shoulders, and a criminal record.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I actually agree with you about the myth of the white middle class alpha. No such beast outside a Patriarchal system creating situational alphas by fiat
[–]Tarnsman4LifeRed Pill Man0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
If feminine women are overrated then so is breathable air.
Relevant username, heh.
[–]an_absolute_roseRed Pill Boy0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
My best friend is Mormon. His father makes money hand over fist and has great connections. He got my mother a job she didn't deserve based on merit. His wife is feminine works part time at a non profit and pleasant. She is in no way dull, timid, or quiet yet she would decently fill the role of a red pill woman although father doesn't seem to desire that anymore. Father leads that family and is definitely the dominant presence, but she is very outgoing and energetic.
I've met a bunch of Mormon men through them and they all have captain first mate dynamics and they all have happy families that produce successful children.
There is a huge dark side to Mormons, but to say that feminine woman are dull and quiet is wrong. To day that submissive woman have to be dull or quiet is wrong.
These exceptional women tend to be uniformly career-focused and masculine in temperament, if not out-right lesbians.
What do you think?
Idgaf. I don't want to fuck masculine career women.
Mormons relentlessly protect and promote their own. Their insularity and clannishness would make the Jews blush.
[–]an_absolute_roseRed Pill Boy0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Which is why my non Mormon mother was given a job by my friend's Mormon father.
[–]Ignatius_Oh_Reilly0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Mormons are very good government employees, a lot in defense and conservative policy jobs. Made me almost wish I grew up Mormon.
See to me that is a worthy trade of for not having to spend your time around an assertive woman, whose bearing to me is the least sexy thing I can imagine. I'd rather be alone, than have to deal with that. I have acquaintances who are assertive, masculine women and have nothing against them, just for the sake of romantic attraction it's absent for me it's the almost as if they were dudes.
If I want to hang around masculine energy, I have my friends, we can have beers and shoot the shit. What I look for in a woman, is that she looks like, moves, thinks and acts like a woman. It's what attracts me to her, anything else is an added bonus. Add if you have no intention to get married, even the major downside you present is gone.
For you it's not worth it, for others it is. That's life.
[–]hyperrrealLoves fun[M] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hey you're gonna have to repost with a neutral title. aka one that doesn't make any claims.
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