How Pre-selection Affects Online Dating

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December 13, 2018

This recently came up in the instagram thread and I wanted to re-write and re-post an article I wrote from 2013:


Pretty much every tenet of game revolves around pre-selection. The idea is simple: Women want a high-value man. The best indicator of a man with high value is finding a man that other women find attractive. This is an evolutionary shortcut, the female subconscious uses the groundwork other women have done to determine who has value, and in return it provides tingles.

It’s a meta signal, eventually resulting in men exhibiting traits that demonstrate pre-selection instead of traits that show actual value in a mate. (Somewhat the basis of sexual dimorphism, so to speak)

Strength, money, access to resources are actually beneficial to a potential mate. Women flock to men who exhibit these behaviors. To exploit this, men find they can exhibit pre-selection meta-traits to attract women, possessing few, if any, of the initial traits required for attraction.

This isn't to say your entire game can operate on pre-selection. But it can help otherwise weak stats. And a lack of it can kill good an otherwise good portfolio of traits.

Being seen in public with one or more women is the most common (but not only) execution of pre-selection and social proof. Almost all the signals that game attempts to exploit are all attempts at hacking pre-selection, by giving the appearance of having been selected by other women:

  • Abundance Mentality - having broad access to other women means you don't care about any particular one.
  • Displaying confidence – confidence is born of experience. Experience shows pre-selection.
  • Being Pre-Selected - whether for real, or in show only, having other women fawn over you in public is a surefire way to get other women's attention. Walking into a bar with two women on your arms, or simply having pretty girls in your profile picture.

These hacks have been useful in creating what’s known as the gaming community or pickup community.

But there’s a major game changer on the scene: Online dating.

The Problem of Online Dating and Pre-Selection

The problem with online dating is that it signals the very opposite of pre-selection. You do not have a mate or options, so you must resort to going online to find one. Even if it’s not true, this is the undertone of all online interactions. You do not have abundance.

Naturally, the tendency of game-savvy men is to still attempt to game on their profiles. But it’s difficult if you don’t recognize the disadvantages of pre-selection in this context.

Exploiting pre-selection for in-person pickup works because the meta-traits are hard to fake and difficult to differentiate. An online profile reveals your bluff immediately. Demonstrating abundance mentality and confidence will be difficult if not impossible online. You must make first moves. You are always coming from a position of weakness. Women hold the upper hand in all online interactions.

In other words, you can't be aloof online, because the nature of the interaction is one of neediness. If you don't generate the communication and follow through, the meetup never happens. This is almost entirely opposite of real life advice, which is not to appear too eager.

This leads to people making extreme profiles, because displays of confidence and abundance mentality are canceled out by the reveal of being online in the first place.

Some men have found luck with being so extreme, that it borders absurd or parody. Being overtly sexual or astoundingly brazen manages to say, “hey this is so ridiculous it can’t possibly work..” And if it’s so ridiculous it won’t work, then this guy isn’t maximizing his strategy. And if he’s not maximizing his strategy, he must not really care if it works. If he doesn’t care, then it’s probably because he’s already having sex with other women. And if he’s having sex with other women, he must be attractive. Pre-selection.

Needless to say this is a very shaky line of reasoning, and it won't be as effective as in-person game. But it can net results.

How to Game Online

The first tip is not to be on a dating site. It reeks of desperation. Flirting on other social media (such as facebook) allows you to control the frame a bit better in this regard. They can look at your profile and see your exciting life, and they don't assume you're there for the hookup.

That said, it also pits you against the entire world of other men. None of whom would be the perfect man for an experienced alpha widow, but all of whom would add to her idealized picture of a perfect mate, building ever higher at the top of the modern widow's tower of unrealistic expectations. Every single one supplicating and eager.

So what if you still want to try online dating?

It is my contention that the only sure-fire way to reliably excel at online dating is to demonstrate the actual traits that would normally lead to pre-selection in real life. Display strength and/or access to resources.

That’s right, you can snag a girl by writing you’re a plastic surgeon making $300k+, and you can lift.

It’s already been shown by the okcupid blog (Now removed) that showing off your muscles is a great way to get messages.

[...] contrary to everything you read about profile pictures, if you’re a guy with a nice body, it’s actually better to take off your shirt than to leave it on.

A 19 year-old showing his abs meets just under 1.4 women for every women he reaches out to, meaning that not only are females responding to his messages, but many are actually contacting him first.

One final point, vis à vis men, their torsos, and the clothing thereupon: if you’re not the type of guy who can show off your muscles, don’t veer off in the opposite direction and get all dressed up. Outfits more sophisticated than a simple collared shirt fare poorly...

So in the end, after all is said and done, the best strategy for online dating is to be attractive. Online dating it the anti-game. Ironically, the way to best succeed at online dating is if you already possess the traits that would be effective at offline dating.

In a round-about sort of way, this also shows pre-selection at work. If you manage to show on your profile that you have the qualities that women select for, then it’s likely you do have mates already in the real world.


Online dating is a great supplement to an otherwise healthy sex life, but should not be used in place of in-person gaming, and certainly should not be used as an excuse not to game in person.

If you are having trouble getting mates in real life, online dating will be very hard for you, and will do nothing but further erode your confidence and sap your energy.

If you aren’t having success, go to the gym, not the internet.

Post Information
Title How Pre-selection Affects Online Dating
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 114
Comments 20
Date 13 December 2018 06:38 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
puerarchytinglesalpha widowalphaabundanceframesocial proofliftgamethe red pill

[–]freew33zy 29 points30 points  (22 children) | Copy

The general point of the post is decent, but I will say: for a select niche of men, online dating is a great invention. By that I'm referring to myself and the other small % of men who are naturally good-looking but for whatever reason grew up as autists around girls so we lacked experience of success. I downloaded Tinder with an n-count of 1 and can somewhat regularly hook up off of it due to looks, which then increased my confidence and let me do better in real life too. Also, the low pressure environment of "it's just a Tinder hook-up" let me work out the kinks of learning to escalate and shit on people who really didn't matter to me.

[–]Scorchyy 1 point2 points  (21 children) | Copy

What kind of first message do you send? (just curious if looks matter that much)

[–]freew33zy 4 points5 points  (16 children) | Copy

I try to say something clever and about something in one of their pics. Only their pics--not their bio. They don't even remember what their bio is so if you're commenting on it it comes across weird ime. My "text game" is pretty ok, as in I can say a couple funny things and understand how to go from Point A to Point B. In that regard I have "solid" text game, but really, it's my appearance carrying the convo. The girls already want to talk to me, meet me, etc, so it's easy sledding. The catch is I'm only a little above average my pics are just in good lighting and flattering so I look pretty attractive in them. I also see a noticeable difference with different pic sets. The last couple months I had a pic I thought was good but apparently girls did not as my lead pic, and it showed. One match per day at most, only one bang. A couple days ago I changed back to my old pic set where girls have told me I look really hot before and I've gotten like 10 matches already, some of them kinda hot. So honestly, pic quality > how attractive you are > your text game.

[–]Scorchyy 0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy

That's very interesting, I very rarely or never get matches but that's probably because most of my pics are selfies I took and they're not the most flattering and good looking becuase I don't so much skills with pic. But it's also the fact I'm not super attractive, that's why I stopped using dating apps, I realized that you had to be much higher that average to get matches on there. And even if you get matches, most will end up in ghosting.

[–]freew33zy 1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy

I'm decently above average but nowhere near a model by any means. Also only 5'9". I just have solid pics that make me look even better than I am and only one selfie on the profile. But yeah you can definitely see better results in real life.

[–]Scorchyy 0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy

What do you do in real life, approach any girl that shows some IOI?

[–]freew33zy 0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy

In real life I am in a high tier frat at one of the best schools to be in a high tier frat at. So I honestly just live life and try to show that I'm a decent time to girls I encounter and naturally acquire a decent sex life.

[–]Scorchyy 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy

Well that social proof certainly helps with girls though some girls might be afraid of frat guys in this #metoo era

[–]freew33zy 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

I mean more than social proof, they're drunk and at my house to party. So it's not the hardest pull ever, lol.

[–]Scorchyy 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy

I guess that helps but most guys could still mess that up. How many pull you manage to get a year?

[–]1RevolutionaryPea7 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think I'm similar to OP and honestly my most successful first message is "<name>!" where <name> is their name.

[–]Skyhawk_And_Skyhead 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I personally just say, "you're really cute I had to say hello"

[–]Scorchyy 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That sounds so beta but I guess if you're cute anything works

[–]Skyhawk_And_Skyhead 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe, its saying hi and a physical complement. I dont put too much effort in because tinder's a background kind of game.

[–]1warlordchad 52 points53 points  (6 children) | Copy

I’m going to keep saying this: SOD (swipe/online dating) is a poison pill men are giving to women. The sheer abundance any decent looking female can get via social media and SOD is fucking astonishing, and we’re (all men on these platforms) literally making women worse—far fucking worse human beings.

So remember, the next time a girl flakes on you, or acts like a bitch, or is entitled, if you’re on social media or SOD, it’s your fucking fault.

[–]TheGillos 12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

Whether I'm on Tinder or not makes no difference. The culture is fucked. If Tinder helps me get one easy lay, I'll use it. But I get your point.

Does it matter HOW you use SOD? I mean, I have self respect and standards... Lol. That factor in?

[–]1warlordchad 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I mean to reply to this comment but it went on the bottom. TL;DR—you’ll have better results with women using cold approach (hotter girls/better connection) as an individual, and we also benefit the more of us who do this collectively. So even if our culture is fucked, it’s better for you as an individual anyway. And the advantage of cold approach will only increase as time goes forward.

[–]Skyhawk_And_Skyhead 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I can't cold approach on the shitter. I can't cold approach in a city I'll be in next week

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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