Work to live, don't live to work

Docbear64 · 2016-11-24T16:37:03+00:00

For a good chunk of my career I've worked with an awesome core group of guys at several different companies. they've taught me a lot and they are the hardest working men i've known and I have a ton of respect for them . However considering how valuable , intelligent, and talented these men are they have very childish notions about work and employers.

It's shocking actually. For a long time we embodied exactly what you describe , working 50 + hours in salaried 40 hour positions because we wanted to make our bosses look good and show our value to the company. Mind you we've done this for years , for different bosses , for different projects and not once have we ever actually been compensated for our hard work or devotion and often we worked hard for bosses who wouldn't know how to sell our work on the next level anyway .

I left the team and moved to a position with a 60% pay raise and significantly more free time . It's weird because I basically started in this " work yourself to death for the good of a company" culture where I had nothing but work to think about and now I can make plans after work . For the first time in my working life I feel like I actually have full on control of my schedule . I'm slowly beginning to embrace it but for me deprogramming from that mindset is definitely a bitch .

2comment · 2016-11-24T21:53:03+00:00

This topic could be a thesis unto itself. In short, keeping up with the Joneses is a real thing among the middle class (who stay perpetual wage slaves due to that mentality).

Also just look at all the new costs that segment have been continually absorbing since 1900:

-Government gets involved in Housing mortgages iirc around 1920/30s, because "everyone should own a house" and thanks to that Housing costs spiral ever out of control. Your retirement nest egg turns into a building on suddenly overpriced land you sink your entire working life into instead of some liquid capital.

-Government gets involved in Healthcare costs (LBJ's medicare and Nixon's HMO) around 1960s/1970s, healthcare costs start spiraling out of control.

-Government gets involved in higher Education (student debt and College Tuition, disregarding previous GI Bill) around the 1950s, tuition costs start spiraling out of control.

That's because the government can really only do two things on these broad levels, tax stuff or subsidize them. When something gets subsidized or guaranteed, like Mortgage loans or student tuition, costs tend to spiral out of control because people no longer have to pay a big upfront cost out of pocket and it gets hidden in these monthly payment plans that just bloat the true cost upwards (old trick car salesman use btw) over time. In turn, their budgets become bloated and you eventually get hiring contracts where teachers get a pension of 3/4 salary/healthcare for life after a measley 20 years - reinforcing the whole system.

So what happened between 1950 and 2016? Well, the high school diploma went from having meaning to shit so many are obligated to get college degrees as a matter of course (not that most jobs really need them in the end), people have staggering student debts and will take any job, and when you have that burden, you will accept increasingly shittier conditions.

And that's just the beginning. A ton of medical conditions are due to diet, the western diet is pretty much killing people and their finances. Healthcare and taxes go up for everyone in turn. And on and on.

Really, the best thing for your health is to opt-out of the herd mentality and not automatically follow everyone else's path and what you're told is the best way to do things by default (ie traditional college->job->kids->etc). It's not that you couldn't do well in that system, but even that is becoming more and more a lottery, bit more merit based, but a lot less than people think. But tbh doing the alternate thing is also a ton of work to be successful as well.

TheLaughingRhino · 2016-11-25T02:26:47+00:00

Depends, IMHO, on your obligations.

I know plenty of guys from school or work or other means of interaction, who are parents. Well their wives might be lousy wives, but the kids need food and a roof. Should there be a work/life balance? Sure. Is it easy to do though for most? I don't know.

I know some people with special needs kids or siblings. Guy I know, it wasn't his choice that his brother is special needs and will need care for life. He's the only one in a position to fill that role, so he does it.

IMHO, the critical issue here is to stay flexible as long as possible if you don't have a passion or a career path that requires a lot of investment up front ( i.e. being a doctor)

Probably one of the worst things that can happen to a guy is he marries too young, has kids too young, and then gets locked in a career, job and mortgage and marriage that he might all regret later. Making that decision at 23-24 might be too soon for many, when they understand later they wanted something different. I'd say most parents I know, deep down, if you give them enough vodka, and in some very isolated moments of clarity, will just come out and say, very carefully, that they wish they didn't have kids at all. They had them too young and now it's just too late to do anything about it.

Some people will never have a passion. Some people will never find their passion. Not sure what to say but for those folks, as you advised, be flexible and keep your options open. As for folks who did find their passion, good for them. And if you have found your passion, maybe it helps to come to terms that some folks out there will never find their passion or one doesn't exist for them. You can try a lot of things but sometimes it doesn't click for you. A lot of life is luck and timing. Don't get me wrong, you have to put in the hard work and effort, but there are things that happen to all of us that operate as good fortune.

I will say this, I don't expect most women to understand this at all. I have a male friend who was in a high stress and lucrative career, but the stress was killing him. He ended up buying a condo in the middle of nowhere and is now working in a coffee shop. He might be one of the technically "smartest" people on the planet. But he chose peace of mind over more dollars and nose bleeds. Any guy I talk to, they understand this dynamic. Most women? I know what they would say. Fuck him. He's a loser. He couldn't hack it. Not openly of course, but it's how they think. It's because they have options to be something else ( i.e. trophy wife, stay at home mom, part time worker) whereas a guy has only one choice - Work, succeed and dominate or be labeled a piece of shit by society at large.

IMHO, these kind of topics would help to have three categories laid out. Those who have found their passion. Those who are looking and have not found it yet. Those who, based on time and circumstance, are less likely to find one or any at all. Just my 2 cents.

beAn0n · 2016-11-24T22:38:22+00:00

My boss is contracted for 50 hours a week on salary. He will stay until 10PM if it means "long term benefit for the company." Yet for the past decade he submits overtime and none of it gets approved.

Fuck that. He's an idiot. If I wasn't paid hourly I'd be out the door after contracted time. I tell him all the time to call the company's bluff, keep in mind my boss is VERY intelligent in our industry and is desired at many locations across the country for different projects and solutions.

Last week I told him you let everyone push you around and you think you have the last laugh providing a solution but in the end, they do because you bend at the knee everytime.

He eventually started calling me son because I leak TRP truths to him. I think it's a psychological name call in an attempt to retain control and dominance but it doesn't really work. When I quit I'm going to give him several books to help the guy out because he's not exactly good at retaining info and has helped me out tons as far as career.

DopamineDripz · 2016-11-24T23:45:43+00:00

I recently transferred from a stressful (physically and mentally) 55-60 hr a week job to a low-moderate stress 40 hour a week job. It has been amazing. I'm training for a masters swim meet, working on a side project, and just chilling. The extra 20 hours a week has changed my whole mindset

Vladz0r · 2016-11-25T03:17:07+00:00

edit I clarified my point, added some example, made it more interesting.

I think that the "work to live" and "live to work" terms can be kind of confusing, especially if you're of the opinion that your work should not be your life, because you see your life purpose and your career as mutually exclusive. What OP is talking about are people who overwork themselves and spend a lot of time on careers they don't enjoy, and are "living to work" in a misaligned career, which is a disastrous Catch-22 situation. The more you work to free time for yourself, the more you're draining yourself physically and emotionally.

The people who feel like they're "working to live" have this mentality because their job isn't their life purpose, and they build up a lot of anxiety by chasing other things, trying to escape their job mentally while they're working, all while remaining in a monotonous job that's just a means to a different end. If you're spending half of your waking life on a job that's just a means to dabble around in other hobbies, rather than making your job about mastering something you enjoy, something that's part of your life purpose, then there's a major misalignment going on. I'm not saying that hobbies are bad, or that the gym and game you're doing outside of your work shouldn't be what you're doing, but really, this "work to live" mentality is exactly what society has been telling us to put up with. It's not really a Red Pill mentality to have. It's just how everyone does it, because most people don't turn their passions into careers, and so everyone becomes "well rounded" with "a bunch of hobbies." Anyone can do that, being a jack of all trades and master of none.

I didn't understand this "live to work" mentality either, and a month ago I was saying the same thing. I was saying to a programmer friend of mine "How can you just make programming your life? What about other hobbies? What about balance?" Meanwhile, I'm on track for a passionless career in programming, because I haven't properly aligned it with my strengths and interests, or I haven't found a better career plan for myself. Ultimately, I think passion and life purpose aligned with career are vital. Here's some Alan Watts

LordThunderbolt · 2016-11-26T03:34:03+00:00

I made that mistake at my last job and it led to a horrible crash and burn on my part. I was working extra hard, working OT, and chasing more money. I left me very tired, waking up in the middle night thinking i missed my alarm to head to work, stressing and dreaming about being at work, actually missing my alarm from being overexhausted and being late for work, paying for Uber to go to and to come back from work, buying food at the cafeteria instead of my usual cooking everyday etc. What ended happening is I was showing up late to work, so tired I'd get nosebleeds, wasting the overtime money on Uber to not be late and to get home earlier, wasting the overtime money on overpriced food at the cafeteria etc. I ended up getting fired because of lateness. All because I got absorbed in living to work and blindly chasing money, when I could've easily worked just 23-32 hours a week and be GOOD. If have more time to rest and more time to myself. In the end, most of my hard work went unnoticed except by a select few co-workers whom my work directly affected.

I learned my lesson though and it'll never happen again. Know why you're working and don't exceed what u actually need to do

Pomandres · 2016-11-24T20:24:31+00:00

We dig dig dig dig dig dig dig in our mind the whole day through To dig dig dig dig dig dig dig is what we really like to do It ain't no trick to get rich quick If you dig dig dig with a shovel or a pick In a mind! In a mind! In a mind! In a mind! Where a million diamonds shine!

We dig dig dig dig dig dig dig from early morn' till night We dig dig dig dig dig dig dig up everything in sight We dig up diamonds by the score A thousand rubies, sometimes more But we don't know what we dig 'em for We dig dig dig a-dig dig

Heigh-ho, Heigh-ho Heigh-ho, Heigh-ho Heigh-ho

Chorus Heigh-ho, Heigh-ho It's home from work we go Whistle

Heigh-ho, Heigh-ho, Heigh-ho

foxxacid · 2016-11-24T17:45:25+00:00

If you love what you do/ do what you love and have purpose and motivation other than money, then work and life are one in the same.

RedDeadWelder · 2016-11-24T23:05:15+00:00

I. Love. My. Job.

I thank god for every day I get to strike an arc.

When I'm not at work I wish I had a garage so I could buy a welder and do more hobby welding.

When the work is difficult, I focus and overcome the challenge and am a better man for it.

I would take my career over my woman any day of the week. And I have, often.

Work for me has the dynamic of what a relationship would be like if blue pill worked. Worked that extra weekend so we're on schedule? Get paid double time for the weekend hours. Do good work and pass your X-rays? Get to keep your job and nobody gives you shit, ever.

I hope that you, yes you, Mr. I have a shitty job but I need to cash for rent and protein powder, finds a job that satisfies you. Because it doesn't have to be a job that you 'like' nobody is going to pay you to drink beer and play video games, find a job that is gruelling, challenging, and rewards you for your hard work, both financially and spiritually. Because you will spend more time Monday to Friday working than trying to hunt pussy, so you better make sure it's fulfilling or even if you're crushing puss on the side you'll still hate yourself 8-10 hours of the day.

xXSoroxXx · 2016-11-24T22:41:23+00:00

I can't help but laugh at all the people who think they are going to to be rich saving every dollar and cent. They buy the cheapest foods , never go out, and think they have the "system" figured out.

_Insidious_ · 2016-11-24T23:28:52+00:00

Abundance mentality when it comes to work is very tough. Even tougher than women I think. Just speaking from personal experience what I am going through right now.

Am I going to get laid

versus

Will I be able to afford food until another job

Prime_Tyme · 2016-11-26T04:28:47+00:00

Terrible advice. Why would you waste your healthiest/strongest years in your 20s/30s sitting on your ass? If you manage your time properly, are smart enough to figure out how to follow the money and advance your career, you can have hobbies, play sports, get rich, and meet women.

aurelius_shrugs · 2016-11-27T00:48:07+00:00

Here's the bottom line: you work an office job and don't stay late you're the first to be fired.

Try feeding your asshole kids and stay at home parasite with no white collar job to pay the mortgage on that tomb.

brasilgringo · 2016-11-24T20:00:45+00:00

<<Personally, what works best for me is a 40 hr/week job without any travel, that pays me well enough to afford a sweet bachelor pad and to be able to toss enough money into my 401k while still having some cash savings and spending cash on the side.>>

To get what you describe above, for me is roughly a $30K/month income (gross), and I haven't been able to figure out how to attain that only working 40hrs/week. And yes I have my own company. And I work longer and harder than I did when I was working for a large corporation as a salaried employee. Tips?

Title	Work to live, don't live to work
Author	thefisherman1964
Upvotes	75
Comments	32
Date	November 24, 2016 4:13 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/5eog3u/work_to_live_dont_live_to_work/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/work-to-live-dont-live-to-work.64777 https://theredarchive.com/post/64777

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