Desire for children

DrnknParrot · 2020-08-24T04:02:08+00:00

I want to be a dad real bad. Nothing scares me more than knowing that if I end up having kids I will more than likely have them taken away by the woman I made them with and then not even getting those few evening hours with them and knowing that they'll end up way more likely to go to prison and such.

For now, I placate myself by trying to be active in my little cousins lives, they're all school aged whereas I'm approaching 30. They are far away but when I visit I get to have the best time ever wtih them and one has even started keeping in touch when im not visiting. He has it hardest cuz his dad walked out so I've definitely become a surrogate to him in that regard.

30203forever · 2020-08-24T04:18:58+00:00

So I'm intrigued, do any of you really desire kids, or if you don't, do you think you would if you were a woman, and society expected you to perform the 'woman's' role instead?

Men can't have kids because anything that can be taken from us for any reason or no reason at all can not truly be considered ours. You, on the other hand, have all the equipment to make kids and are basically guaranteed that they can never be taken away from you unless you do something really, really stupid. So now imagine how much less the average man wants to have kids nowadays when compared to the average woman. P.S. I suspect that the reason you do not want to have kids is because they would be detrimental to your accustomed standard of living. Why do I believe that's the case? Because half of the women in the somewhat large company I'm working for are exactly like that and make no secret about it.

RedMeatTrinket · 2020-08-24T04:24:21+00:00

Sure, I already have a couple of kids. Thanks to your expectations of the "women's" role, I had the ripped away from me in the divorce. They are now adults and I have reestablished relationships with them. They are telling me all the lies their Mom told them.

This is what us men have to deal with and it's probably why most men don't want kids. They'll lose them with the woman splits. Why desire something you love knowing they'll be ripped from you one day and brainwashed.

2020-08-24T03:54:26+00:00

I don't want them as a man and I wouldn't want them as a woman either. however, social pressure does get to people in a way.. if all my friends are having them, I would probably feel a little bit left out.. But still happy that I dont have that kind of burden/responsibility.

DangZagnut · 2020-08-24T04:53:53+00:00

Why would I waste my time and resources creating something for a woman to leave and treat them as little ATMs for money?

So I went with keeping my ATMs for myself and leaving the game entirely. I made my little bit and love a simple life that can’t be taken away from me.

I neither recognize nor care about women’s roles nor men’s roles.

That’s all just made up nonsense. There’s only two things that might lead to a role if you were going to make any up.

women are generally weaker than men
women tend to be extremely vulnerable when gestating a fetal ATM.

So because of those two issues women need to do what they need to do to mitigate them if desired.

GlobalAsshat · 2020-08-24T04:30:27+00:00

I wouldn't mind kids, and have the income and net worth to make it work, but most of the good women get taken pretty early. I'm not too concerned about it to be honest. I continue to red pill and if it happens, it happens. I don't find that many women to be all that appealing though. I'm just not interested in the constant drama, stimulation, and consumer driven, superficial nature of western culture. To me it all lacks depth. The always-on nature of smartphones makes it that much worse.

Fer1015 · 2020-08-24T10:26:42+00:00

No way in hell. Having kids means saying goodbye to your freedom and identity, also getting married puts you in a position where you Will be blamed and trapped for everything. This last thing happens as well in a LTR, but the main difference here is that, at least in a LTR you can always walk away and end the relationship with as less drama as posible.

CuriousIncel2 · 2020-08-24T06:08:35+00:00

do you think you would if you were a woman, and society expected you to perform the 'woman's' role instead?

My cousin is a career woman, and she straight up told me she never wants kids. My manager at work is 35 and doesn't have kids. But it seems to be the minority. Most of my women friends want kids. Jordan Peterson says law firms are unable to hold on to their successful women who quit to have children.

Personally, I think going the childfree route is the preferred option for ambitious women, because I'm sick and tired of feminists complaining about there not being enough women in top position. When it the women themselves who choose to sacrifice their career for children.

retal1ator · 2020-08-24T06:41:22+00:00

I would definitely love to have kids. The reasons I don't have any yet is due to all the reasons listed here by others MGTOWs - I don't want to be in a situation where they will be used against me emotionally and might even be taken away from me for no reason.

As you said, kids will change your life and drain your time/energies away. That's the basic sacrifice a person needs to accept in order to have kids and raise them, sadly nowadays men in that situation additionally need to accept all the anti-male bias in the court system.

If I was a woman I would have had kids already, I have no doubt about that. And I wouldn't care much if that meant I had to work and raise them, or have the luxury to find a poor soul who would support me being home to raise my kids.

Women, in regard to kids and parenting, have it extremely easy. You can make the decision to have kids and know, with almost 100% certainty, that they will never be taken away from you and you'll have plenty of practical support in case things go badly with your man of choice. For men, it's the opposite.

Perseus_the_Bold · 2020-08-24T06:47:52+00:00

I can confidently say the majority of MGTOW want to have kids, including myself, or else we wouldn't be talking about surrogacy so much. The problem is that we do not want women in the picture. This is our dilemma.

We are the future market for when the artificial womb is further developed into a viable option for us. But until then, surrogacy is our only real choice and many men are taking that option. Within the next 5 years I will go through with it myself. My mom wants grandkids and this is the only way that it's going to happen.

I'm at that age where my fatherly instincts are kicking in so... yeah. Wanting kids is normal.

bdralph · 2020-08-24T11:58:44+00:00

but I also have zero desire to get married, sacrifice my body, time and ambition to do the female stereotype of slaving away over the mundane tasks of caring for a family

It's not just you. It's most women and the powers that be know this. That's why women are being empowered everywhere. They know that when women have money, the last thing on their minds is, "Ooh, I now want to have lots of babies and pay for them with my own money!". Men might want that. Not women. The genders are different. It's men who care about legacy, family name, advancing technology, going into space etc. Women? Not so much. No wonder scientific progress is slowing down too.

Solo_and_Simple · 2020-08-24T16:25:54+00:00

I knew by the time I was 18 that I never wanted kids. It's not that I dislike them, but I understood that, once you have kids, your free, solo life is pretty much over. Your life becomes centered around the children -- what they need, what they're going through, interacting with them, keeping an eye on them, helping them, supporting them, providing for them, toting them around to this and that, feeding and clothing them, etc.

I have always felt drawn to live my own, independent life, and I knew having children would prevent that. I also saw my parent's marriage and family (4 kids), and I wasn't all that impressed with how happy or fulfilled they were. They both seemed to be just executing socially designated roles. I wanted more freedom -- a lot more freedom -- than that.

I have jettisoned a lot of what society expects a man to do, so I imagine that, if I were a woman, I'd be doing the same -- jettisoning a lot of what society expects a woman to do. It can be tough, because everything pushes you into the designated roles: culture, media, music, TV, movies, religion, parents, peers, advertisement, and your own biology. But I always felt like I'd just be a puppet of my genes or culture, if I went the traditional route.

Anyway, hope that answers your question.

King_Yautja · 2020-08-24T07:51:24+00:00

I'm about 80/20 on not having kids. I'm 37, so I'm pretty set in my ways, and much like you I value my time and independence too much. But I've never gotten a vasectomy because some part of me is a bit reluctant to take that final step. If the laws drastically changed, maybe I would consider it, but as it stands it's simply not a risk I'm willing to take.

Would I feel differently if I was a woman? Probably. I think most women really strongly want children. Women such as yourself who genuinely just don't want them are very rare, like 2 or 3 out of 100. So I don't think procreation is a societal expectation of women I think the vast majority of them really want them, so purely based on probability if I was female I'd want them too.

pewdsxtseries · 2020-08-24T08:43:57+00:00

Personally, I don't want kids though cannot claim that about others. What I do think is that if in future I get the urge to have kids I will adopt them from orphanage. Hopefully I would be able to make some unfortunate soul's life better.

akihonj · 2020-08-24T13:57:05+00:00

A lot to unpack here so I'll try to work backwards

So you have decided that you don't want children, good on you. See that, my first instinct was to celebrate and empower you not cast you as somehow broken.

That actually wasn't a conscious choice either it just happened, and here's where you can experience your privilege then, if we want to get sjw, you have the option and regardless of what you choose others will celebrate it. So if five or ten years from now you decide you want a child, hop over to a sperm bank and you're all sorted and guess what you'll be celebrated for it, even as a single mother you'll be celebrated.

Let's say you meet somebody and decide you want a child even though when you met that man you both agreed that children were not an option, you'll still be celebrated, you'll be told that you are correct and he'll be told to man up or face everyone knowing he's broken for not wanting children regardless of whether or not everyone knows before you met he didn't ever want children.

So in that regard you cannot ever experience the same situation that we do.

Now as for whether or not any of want or don't want children, we can each only say for ourselves, as for me no never, I actually never wanted children but when each was born I knew that I'd sacrifice my life for both of them, in fact I was doing exactly that, without question, doing the typical job I hated just to provide for their welfare, to keep a roof over their heads and to provide for a wife. Also something I actually never wanted.

Growing up I was adamant that kids were not an option for me, that marriage was not an option for me, even though it was all my family talked about, so when mgtow say about society brainwashing them yes it's true, for boys and for some girls the focus on having a wife or husband and kids is the sole reason to live. It was all my family spoke about and given what happened to my father and the way my mother behaved they pushed that narrative even harder as though I can make up for their past.

When my marriage failed, I was blamed, she cheated I wasn't good enough to keep her, she claimed abuse without proof I was blamed by my own family and courts that didn't require proof and the label of abuser stuck I on the other hand had proof of her abuse. I didn't cheat or destroy the marriage yet I was to blame. Again you won't face the condemnation, if you cheat it's his fault if he cheats it's his fault.

Now if I were with a woman who had children I take no responsibility for them and play no part in their lives, nothing whatsoever, I don't pay for them, I don't adult for them, I'm not a role model for them nothing, I have absolutely nothing to do with them.

If I grew up as a woman then, I don't think that wanting children or not had anything to do with it, it's more likely that I would have but then again no more than any man, the desire for children works both ways it's just a false narrative that men don't want children. They might not want them as much or as intensly but the desire for most men is there.

rickstrawburg · 2020-08-26T14:51:45+00:00

I'm always on the fence. It might be nice one day but that day is nowhere near and I don't think I'd be too let down if it didn't happen while I was focusing on other things. I don't really know how I'd go about having a child in today's age. Seems like a pipe dream without risking half of my entire life.

if you don't, do you think you would if you were a woman, and society expected you to perform the 'woman's' role instead

If it makes sense to you sure. I've met women who say they don't want kids and that's fine. Plenty of people propagate their genes every day, society can take a couple dead ends.

I sort of suspect time is a great equalizer in this "I never want kids" thinking but that's just my suspicion (myself included)

Gokusayan1 · 2020-08-24T08:05:02+00:00

First of all, if you don't want kids as a woman you have the benefit of having the womb(Briffault's law). If you are looking for the purpose that drives us to be MGTOW than the answer is more personal than as a collective group. The pain of being alone is inevitable but suffering is optional in other words if you want a kid, adopt one. My reasons are more complex and absurd.

jakethegreatwhite · 2020-08-24T14:43:54+00:00

Young man here, I'd like to have a son one day but certainly not a daughter, not because I would hate her for being female but for the high chance of her falling to our fucked up culture. Also from my mother's words,"the boys were far easier to raise then my daughter"

Liquid_Leopard · 2020-08-24T16:25:11+00:00

Without a woman I can:

Work a lesser paying job that I absolutely love and still have money to burn by being financially responsible and investing wisely, I'm not responsible for anyone but me.
I can do whatever, whoever and go wherever I want at any time.
I've traveled to 36 countries in a gap year for less than my ex used to spend on clothes, makeup, food and her half of the bills.
I have plenty of friends and I see them often while we enjoy hobbies like motorcycle riding, so I am never without something to do or someone to hang out with.
Here is the big one. UNTIL MARRIAGE AND CHILD CUSTODY/LAWS CHANGE signing a marriage license and having kids, is basically jumping out of an airplane without a chute. Women file for divorce between 60-80% of the time, get custody 85% of the time and divorce is well above 50% in most countries.

Marriage is a suicide contract.

Jakesteroz · 2020-08-25T09:11:00+00:00

Aye, fellow anti natalist and childfree?

I agree with all you said.

I am so happy I don't want children at all. This notion can kill my desire for sex even further and makes my urge manageable so I don't fall for baby traps or surprise pregnancies, I consider doing vasectomy but I'm not dead set yet on it. I don't want to play family house game being a husband or a father. This is too much work, sacrifice, not my dream nor desire at all. I don't care for what people think about my attitude at all. Kids are not status to me. I also have no respect for most breeders who don't know how to raise kids, I'm disgusted by neglectful and irresponsible parents. Just popping out babies isn't enough to be a good parent worthy respect LOL. Any dumbass can spawn a kid but being a good parent is not easy. I'd also bring another innocent being without it's consent to this world of suffering, misery, nihilism etc to live among hypocrites and that fact makes me not want kids too. Humans could face extinction and I don't care.

I like to be free, love myself, want to do whatever I want whenever I want. I'm middle class so I also can't really afford having kids anyway and I don't plan to pull 70-80hrs a week and sacrifice myself on the altar for kids I won't see much then anyways.

When it comes to relationships with women I consider only childfree with personality.

Title	Desire for children
Author	DrnknParrot
Upvotes	1
Comments	35
Date	August 24, 2020 3:32 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW2
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW2/comments/ifhjfv/desire_for_children/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW2/desire-for-children.805993 https://theredarchive.com/post/805993

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