Do you think you could change your ways if you'd meet the right woman?

DangZagnut · 2019-03-25T12:31:31+00:00

Change my ways? wHy is the impetus always on me to change? Why can't anyone change for me?

More gynocentrism.

I'm joking of course, your choice is to lower your standards so you have a broader swath of people to choose from, or somehow better yourself to raise yourself to their bar.

The question more is, is it worth it? And why do you want it so badly? Is it your idea? Who came up with it?

Has media played a role in why you believe what you believe? What are you lacking that you think you can fill?

fmanly · 2019-03-25T19:23:11+00:00

Here is the problem with your line of thinking: It assumes that most women are the problem, and that if you just met the right women then marriage would work out.

This is incorrect. Women AREN'T the problem, and there actually isn't anything wrong with most women. They're just products of their circumstances. The problem is with our culture, and with the modern institution of marriage.

Modern marriage is a corrupting institution. It brings out the worst in women. Honestly, I suspect it tends to bring out the worst in men as well. So, if you marry the right woman, you're just pushing her to become the type of woman you've been desperately trying to avoid.

I also would love to share a life with somebody, in theory. I was married for over a decade. If I met the right person I probably would be happy to date her, but I have no intention to share a house or get married. It wouldn't be because I don't like her, but because I don't want to ruin a good thing. I'm a pretty steady guy - I doubt I'm going to leave a nice woman just because I get some urge to try something different. I wouldn't date somebody unless I felt they were likely to be similar, but if she decides to leave me some day then that is her choice. If we are living separately and unmarried then if she chooses to leave me I might still be heartbroken, but I'll still maintain my financial freedom, and won't be out on the street. So, in the end the consequences of dating the wrong person are mitigated, and dating can be about enjoying the time we have together.

With our family court system there really is no reason for a man to get married. The system is thoroughly stacked against men - if you don't get divorced then marriage actually provides you little benefit, and if you do get divorced then it will almost exclusively benefit your wife, unless you're one of the 0.001% of men who marry a woman substantially better off financially than you are.

GlobalAsshat · 2019-03-25T20:04:15+00:00

Yes. I've read Journey of Souls and have had experiences that suggest the material in that book might have merit, so if I happen to stumble across my "soul mate" in this life, great. In any case maybe I gave myself this shitty life for a reason. You can gain a lot of insights and perspective in life a well adjusted person glosses completely over, and indeed I have.

It would be pretty obvious to me if I'd click with anyone... she's either part of the matrix or she's not, and it's not hard to tell.

GoldCoastWanderer · 2019-03-25T21:01:59+00:00

It all depends how one defines "Change your ways". I've been MGTOW for many years, since before there was a word for it. I knew at the age of 8 (in the mid 80s) that I didn't want to have any children. I grew up poor, and I saw what having children did to the economy in my household. During my teenage years in the early 90s, I was one of the few who didn't drink alcohol. I still don't drink (I may have one glass of red wine over the course of 12 months to celebrate an achievement, but that's as far as it goes). I saw the other kids getting drunk every weekend, but it wasn't for me, so I didn't do it.

At age 16 I was invited to one of their "parties". The girl who was hosting it while her parents were out of town was practically all over me, right up until she realised I wasn't drinking. My buddies were giving me subtle hints all night that I could bang her if I'd just have a few drinks. i chose not to because I didn't want to do something I'd regret. She went off and banged some other guy (who I'm told was 39) and got herself pregnant. Yep, I dodged a major bullet by going my own way that night. Oddly, this girl and I suddenly got along a lot better after that (she'd barely said two words to me in the three years prior), but shortly after this I left town (for economic reasons primarily).

I completely avoided the nightclub/party scene in my early 20s in a new city. I was more focussed on my health, particularly cycling which is my passion. As I moved into my 30s, women started taking more interest in me. Since then I've had two women tell me point blank to my face they wanted to have children with me. I said "no". I still don't want to have children. There may have been others who felt that way and never said it, I guess I'll never know. I'm still more focused on riding my bike, spending time in nature, travelling and so on.

Now I look at the women around me, and to be fair there are plenty who still look good into their 30s and 40s. Honestly, I think "the wall" is just a myth, a revenge fantasy of shut-ins who are upset they didn't get any when they were younger, and want those women to grovel to them later on. Spend some time in a yoga class and you'll see what I mean. A woman who takes care of herself can hold her looks for a long time. The problem is that many of them are either in a mad rush to have children, or already have children from a previous relationship. Again, this is something I will never do. I like the lifestyle I have today. I keep seeing these articles online where someone has found two women who decided not to have children and described it as a "movement". I don't know where those women are, but they're certainly not around here.

There's another thing too. Along the way I've made some mistakes. A few years ago I lost all my money and very nearly lost my legal rights in the community due to one of these mistakes. I'm now back on my feet, but the thing is, when I've had hard times in my life, I've had to figure it out myself. So does everyone else. I don't intend playing Captain Save-A-Hoe for someone who married the wrong man, has crippling debt and is trying to get child support out of some unemployed alcoholic loser. Again, I like the life I have. Sex is overrated anyway, and it's not worth throwing my life away to get it.

Yes, I know I'm rambling now. I guess the whole point is this. I would quite happily spend time with the right woman, but I just don't think I'm going to meet her. I still don't plan on having children, so getting married is largely a pointless exercise. I'll just continue living my life on my own terms. I have plenty of female friends who come into my life every so often. I like them and enjoy their company, but I'm in no real rush to take things further.

car23975 · 2019-03-25T21:34:10+00:00

Me too, but I am not waiting for her all my life. If I meet her at 30 and up, it won't matter to me. She is all used up by then and $ is all that matters for her by then.

SingleManDR · 2019-03-25T23:46:54+00:00

Nobody married the wrong woman deliberately, you do know that right? They seemed to be 'the one', and then you really find out who you're dealing with in the divorce courts. Not me, but that story has played out countless times. You might miss a glaring personality disorder because your criteria are focused elsewhere. And as the saying goes, you don't know what you don't know. So with that in mind, how confident are you that those right women would indeed have turned out well?

potatorockstar · 2019-03-25T23:48:32+00:00

amazing friends and life and red pill sounds a bit unbelievable.

801735 · 2019-03-25T19:21:02+00:00

Not gonna happen. Legal, convenience, the looming waste of invested everything, it's a deal breaker for me. Marriage actually never was an option in the 1st place. Also not planning on kids, so every incentive to do anything but have fun together while it lasts, simply doesn't make sense. Cohab left with my ex, too. I didn't know MGTOW was me.

Why buy the cow when the milk is practically free. The same goes for her, the whole pig for just the sausage? Why not dip the sausage into that milk and that's that. Perhaps go see the pastures together before returning to separate stalls.

compilethisplz · 2019-03-26T01:22:47+00:00

Short answer: fuck no

Marriage is a completely ONE sided arrangement.

PubliusVirgilius · 2019-03-27T11:44:07+00:00

I am highly sveptical that there are NAWALTs out there. Besides that modern day marriage is the worst deal a men can get.

There is too much risk involved. Its like walking a mine field or pkaying russian roulette. You never know how the person really is, until some years after marrying.

FlourishedCass · 2019-04-03T12:51:03+00:00

If the conditions are right, sure; anything's possible. It's highly unlikely though - I'm talking 1 in 500,000 women being "unicorns", so 0.00002%.

I don't think I've ever met a woman under 40 that I could consider an 'exception' yet.

stoopididoit · 2019-03-25T19:21:04+00:00

If I met the "right woman" I wouldn't have to change anything.

chart6653 · 2019-03-25T18:59:10+00:00

Knowing all that we know now, why would any man enter a legal contract with 'The State' with respect to their relationship. Make that search to find a Unicorn, great, best of luck, I hope you find her. But get a legally binding 'stamp of approval' that can and most likely will financially devastate you when the relationship inevitably turns to shit? Why? So that 'society' thinks you're legit? No thanks, not worth the risk.

Maximum_Afternoon · 2019-03-25T12:45:03+00:00

Remember, sure, your chances and meeting the right woman are low. But your chances of being able to marry them or cohabitate without having a hugely gynocentric legal contract with the state remain zero.

AliBarakat · 2019-03-25T15:32:38+00:00

Why do I have to change? Why can't the woman change for me?

fear_of_government · 2019-03-25T13:53:37+00:00

I only found MGTOW recently and the other sub was just too much for me. I don't hate women, but it just feels like a large portion of those guys have got shit on and are feeling some type of way. That's how it comes off. It's one thing to love yourself and love your independence, but to chastise and belittle women? I don't know. I like to think I'm better than that.

Does shit happen that leaves a bad taste in your mouth? Hurt, anger, sadness? Yes, but that's fucking life.

If the right woman should come into my life, I would marry her. I divorced in 2017 and recently had a gf that I thought could be the one. Unfortunately, we disagreed on some major dealbreakers, but that doesn't mean that I'm hating on her, trying to talk shit about her. It is what it is. Move on.

For the guys who are asking those other questions; I want to travel and go on adventures, I've already done quite a bit as I am former military, but to do those things with a partner in crime(and I'm not talking bout just taking one of my friends on these adventures). It's just different when you have your woman with you.

That all being said, I know my worth, what I bring to a relationship and I won't settle. I will compromise if situation calls for it after weighing pros and cons.

Some of yall are seemingly still angry about whatever happened to you(or not, depending on if you've had any luck with women), but focus on yourself, do your best not to be so negative towards women, it doesn't do you any good to continue harboring those feelings. Do I still feel some type of way about how my marriage went down the gutter? Yes, but I'm so past it, progressed so much in my life since then that instance in my life is now just a small part of me, it doesn't define who I am or what I do.

MisterMedeez · 2019-03-25T14:07:53+00:00

Maybe it's because I'm proud but when I was a boy I was raised on Shakespeare and Disney to believe in love atleast that people cared about each other as a priority. Then i became a man and tinder and the dating scene made me stoop to become an archetype and comply with the expectations of women but I still maintained that love was still valuable to women too. Me personally I find it patronising that a woman would ever see me as even in part an ATM machine but the more I learn about nature it seems that even atleast in part women seek male wealth as much as they do companionship. I tried to be machiavellian go along with the greedy nature of women but I just can't. As I say maybe it's because I'm proud but I'd rather die by my principles that stoop to a vapid notion of what life should be.

Supernumiphone · 2019-03-25T14:19:41+00:00

Well I believe that there are some good women out there, but not a lot, and as you said, most are probably already in relationships. But the main problem is how can you reliably recognize one when you meet her? MGTOW forums are full of stories of men who thought they'd found one and then got badly burned. There don't seem to be any reliable heuristic techniques for vetting prospective partners.

So if you want to continue seeking a partner you're going to have to figure that out for yourself. Regardless, I'd still recommend that you avoid marriage. The risk/reward ratio is completely out of balance one that. Even if you think you've found a good one, the potential cost of being wrong is just too damn high.

avtarius · 2019-03-25T14:33:58+00:00

I have a question ... Does it have to be A woman ? Why can't you share your life with many women, or a child which is a better investment especially for passing your equity to.

psychosocialpursuit · 2019-03-25T14:45:45+00:00

A lot of people may assert that MGTOW means never getting married though in my research reading and research may suggest that there are men who are married with a MGTOW mind set. Meaning yes they are married, but they are not beta and they have found a relationship in which they do not compromise themselves nor their self worth and ambitions. I know many will disagree with that, but that is just my interpretation of what I have found.

As for myself, maybe. Long shot maybe. I'm not even convinced I would be available for an LTR, let alone marriage.

But keep in mind that I have not bought into oneitis since my divorce. Meaning I do not believe in "the one" or "soulmates." I believe that there are a lot of people that one particular person could be compatible with, not just because they meet a particular list of subjective values, standards, and prerequisites.

I also do not believe that there is such things as a unicorn woman. There is no unicorn man either. Just because a woman meets the requirements of what I look for in a woman at the end of the day she is a woman who operates on the same standards more or less as any sample population of women. She will need the same standard of care in regards to emotional availability and monetary care as required by any other female almost. Of course, there may be extreme exceptions to this rule but these exceptions may not meet what I look for in a partner.

So the ultimate answer is: maybe. A big, big maybe.

Impossible-asset · 2019-03-25T14:50:47+00:00

In my view the answer is "no". And for three reasons.

The marriage contract puts you legally in an inferior position. That contract is between 3 parties. First being the State, second being the woman, and then you. If things go south, they will go south for you much more likely than they will for her.
From my days as an uber driver (I drove as a side-gig for a year to quickly pay down some debt), I heard story after story as women would talk amongst themselves about taking men in divorces. It was disgusting to me. It is actually fashionable out here to destroy a man in a divorce.
Women are hypergamous by nature. So sure she marries you, but will only stay loyal to you as long as you're the man who can provide her with the most resources.

With these three elements of the courts, the popularity of divorce for financial gain, and their nature considered, I cant expose myself to that level of risk.

Now is there a mathematical possibility that somewhere, there is one who would not engage in that behavior? Sure, but I'm no mathematician.

One youtuber summed it up nicely:

"Picture a 50 gallon barrel of apples. Now all of the apples in this barrel are poisonous, except one. But they all look identical in every way. The only way to find the right one is to bite it and hope you get poisoned. Is that worth the risk?"

Mgtow is my choice because I can spend my resources how I choose and I prefer to use it to better myself. Marriage is quite frankly too risky for me.

oldrunnerguy · 2019-03-25T15:05:57+00:00

I used to have that mindset as well. Unfortunately, I have come to the same conclusions as yourself, the few good ones are taken. As far as changing your ways, that is a dangerous position to put yourself into. I think that when a woman tries to change you, most times she ends up with a man that she doesn't love. That happened with me and I ended up divorced after jumping through a great deal of hoops (things that I changed in my life to try to appease her). You have to be true to yourself. You seem content on your own, I think that it is probably best to keep it that way. Speaking personally, I never expect to find a woman that is "worth it!"

BilboBagginhole · 2019-03-25T15:35:00+00:00

I am fresh out of a divorce, so at this point I have no desire to be with a woman. I might be able to see myself having a relationship down the road, but I don't think I'll ever want to live with a woman again.

My ex was a great woman and still is in many ways. We had a good time for 10 years, then it all went to shit. That would be a fine, normal course of a relationship, except I had to give her half a million dollars of money I made.

JackSkell0255 · 2019-03-25T18:25:53+00:00

I’m old. And I don’t date, as I consider the use of the word dating as a means for courtship and marriage. I will not be married again. So I don’t date.

But, I have found that I can sustain a mutually rewarding relationship with a woman for about two years, then it naturally falls apart. No cohabitation, no mixing of finances, we pay Dutch when we go places that we have mutual interest in. I am clear about my intentions from the very beginning.

Sometimes I go years before between relationships. These years are not recovery, as I have never changed.

It’s just the way it has worked out for me. Kind of a relationship buffet. You take what you enjoy, you just don’t take any of it home with you.

censoredandagain · 2019-03-25T15:41:28+00:00

Meeting the right woman would mean not changing your ways.

Taguroizumo · 2019-03-25T15:47:15+00:00

Never, because people rarely change.

chakamaki · 2019-03-25T15:56:07+00:00

Men or women are ultimately a human.. both can be bad or good... while due to gender they have different hormones and due to social and environmental structures they developed differently...

Now, the problem is not with the woman but current environment and the way men is being treated..

What do you want as a man/human from women/human ?

(1) Sex (2) sense of love and being loved (3) Respect and companionship (4) sometimes financial help or security/backup (5) Your own children (6) at the old age someone to share your good/bad times (7) support you physically, mentally, emotionally, socially, financially...

I am not able think anymore then this.. now the problems are with women ...

(1) they treat sex as a treat or tool to manipulate you (2) they “show” love but 99.999999% it’s false (3) forget they won’t give respect to you (4) you are not sure it’s your child (5) She can die earlier then you (6) Most of time she will keep her finance to herself (7) She is the one who is at receiving end and not giving...

Including this,

(1) Law favors women (2) there are lots of beta male who will die for her (3) world is feminist (4) men are emotionally more vulnerable then women (5) No support for broken men

Finding a “Right” woman is like winning a 1000 billion lottery.. 999 billion people fails.. and only one wins... now you can be optimistic and try to be that one or else be realistic and choose your self then wasting time on women...

How?

(1) You can get paid sex (2) you can friends, pets for love (3) if you ore on your own you will be more respected (4) no women in life = lots of savings and it will create a strong backup (5) you can adopt children (6) for old age just be a part of some old age community and be independent physically and economically... (7) if you have all 1-6 you are content in every aspect of life...

Women is like a total eclipse for men’s life...

daniellederek · 2019-03-25T16:46:26+00:00

Yes If the woman was a billionaire with a heart condition or stage 4 cancer....

principledbeast1 · 2019-03-25T17:21:11+00:00

I've come to the conclusion that if a woman manages to make her way into my life and fit she is welcome to come along for the ride, in fact the gal I am dating now is that way, I made it very clear and I remind her about yearly that we will never get married or live together, ever. Still waiting to see if she will stick around after 2 years and all of her friends getting married, I'm guessing she won't. But she's fun, holds a conversation, and most importantly isn't up my ass about everything all the time. This arrangement works for me but your mileage may vary.

Roastie_haiku_bot · 2019-03-25T17:52:24+00:00

AWALT

ValhallaWillCome · 2019-03-25T18:11:00+00:00

The problem with women is that even if she is the right woman, there's no guarantee she'll stay that way for the rest of your life. Together for life goes against human nature, both male and female. Take that into consideration with the laws we have surrounding divorce around the West, and you'll see why most here, inlcuding me, would not go back to the plantation.

I think a better question here would be: If divorce laws change for the better, society holds women accountable for their actions and women weren't fed feminism down their throats from elementary school onwards, would you change your ways if you met the right woman? This may change some MGTOW, but for me, it would still be a no. I've got mental issues from an abusive mom, I got a sister that used to use me as her personal servant (still tries, not getting anything out of me anymore), I've been through a bunch of bad relationships and my last gf really did a number on me and my trust 4 years ago. There was a moment where I just realised I was always happy when I was alone or around good friends and with no woman in my life. That was right after my last gf. I still go on the occasional date, sleep with women if I get the chance and I'm not put off by them, but mostly, I just do me, what I want, no matter what people tell me I should or shouldn't do. The stupid thing is that I used to put in a lot of effort into dating and relationships, and I never really got anywhere with it. Right now, my confidence is through the roof, I can't even remember being as happy as I am now, got more income than I could have imagined a decade ago, and it shows in how easy it has become for me attract women. I used to chase women, they now chase me. Why would I give that up, even if everything were to change to be more appropriate for men?

steelyknife1122 · 2019-04-25T17:16:01+00:00

Not really. Society as a whole must change, then we can talk. A unicorn means nothing when the town folk won't let you keep it.

Title	Do you think you could change your ways if you'd meet the right woman?
Author	Inhere9
Upvotes	20
Comments	48
Date	March 25, 2019 12:21 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW2
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW2/comments/b5a0cl/do_you_think_you_could_change_your_ways_if_youd/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW2/do-you-think-you-could-change-your-ways-if-youd.813920 https://theredarchive.com/post/813920

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