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How would you guys respond?

MasterMarksmanGD

February 11, 2021
3 upvotes
/r/MensRights

Here is the post:

https://www.reddit.com/user/Board_Gaming/comments/kirt86/refuting_the_idea_that_woman_are_more_privileged/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

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Post Information
Title How would you guys respond?
Author

MasterMarksmanGD

Upvotes 3
Comments 23
Date February 11, 2021 2:09 AM UTC
(5 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/lhabez/how_would_you_guys_respond/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-would-you-guys-respond.834540
https://theredarchive.com/post/834540
Top posts by MasterMarksmanGD

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Comments

[–]WinnieJinping11 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Is her point that women are so much willing to fight?

Alright, since all genders are allowed now. Show me the statistics of male vs female applications for the army.

Don’t even get me started on manual labour.

Women had no voice? Explain al the divorce rapes please. Show me self made female millionaires and then set it off against men. They are all on divorce or inheritance money.

[–]iloveyoubutyou -5 points-4 points-3 points 5 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

If we talk about the women millionaires as an example women are privileged we are falling into apex fallacy territory.

[–]bufedad 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I am not oppressed I am speaking truth to power

Showing women having the privilege of being given by law money they did not earn is not Apex fallacy.

It an extreme example of privilege every woman cam take advantage of.

[–]iloveyoubutyou -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Yes, but this is a very, very, small minority of women. Most of us women are lower to middle class. It could very well be compared to how feminists use the small fraction of men in power to justify the concept of the patriarchy.

[–]Input_output_error 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

But the other poster isn't saying that all women are millionaires, he is saying that if you divide the millionaires by sex and look at how they got their money you'll notice that of all these people women got their fortune more often through being married.

The thing that all women are privileged to is the system that gave some of these women their riches. That not all women become millionaires through this system doesn't mean that this system of getting money from their spouse isn't in place for all them. Unlike feminist who claim that all men are privileged because some men have a lot of power. The power structure that gives these men their power isn't available to most other men, that is what makes it a fallacy.

The apex fallacy version of this would be something like all women are rich because some of them became millionaires through marriage.

[–]iloveyoubutyou -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Would you consider a lesbian woman privileged? Sure, she can become rich if she marries rich, but why would she want to?

Don't get me wrong but I really dislike that they think women having a better chance of being rich if they marry rich rather than starting a business is privilege. I, for one, view that fact as an unfortunate leftover from the old times when women were basically property to their husbands. I don't think it's a good thing for women to have to marry rich to be rich. We should be rich off our own damn hard work.

I guess it depends how you or the person I was responding to view privilege. You view more reward with less work as a privilege and I view the ability to build a fortune out of hard work a privilege. The ability to build a fortune out of hard work is the American dream.

[–]Input_output_error 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The privilege here isn't that a women has a better chance of becoming a millionaire through marriage, the privilege is that there is this system in place that allows themone, view that fact as an unfortunate leftover from the old times when women were basically property to their husbands. I don't think it's a good thing for women to have to marry rich to be rich. We should be rich off our own damn hard work.

When was this mythical time of men 'owning' their women? I have never heard of any period in our history where this was the case. Don't get me wrong, im not saying that it wasn't hard being a women a century or more ago. But that was because life was much harsher for everyone at that time, not just for women. It is true that there have been disparities throughout history between the sexes, most of these disparities are directly tied to biological differences between the sexes. Thinking that women always have been second class citizens is really a modern idea that has very little basis in reality. The ruling elite has always been about class, not about gender. A ruling class woman could do with a lower classed man as she pleased, if women truly had been a lower class then that would never have been possible.

The privilege here isn't that a women has a better chance of becoming a millionaire through marriage, the privilege is that there is this system in place that allows them to cash in on their spouses revenue.

As to the question of why there aren't as many self made millionaire women as there are men is a whole different story. Generally speaking society will value a man's worth by their (financial) success. Unsuccessful men are viewed as worthless by society so the drive for men to succeed in anything is far more prevalent then it is in women, again, generally speaking. This is because women are viewed as inherently valuable by society. If we pushed women as hard as we push men to succeed then this disparity would vanish for a big part. But this won't happen any time soon, as this is part of our biological differences as much as they are cultural.

​

I guess it depends how you or the person I was responding to view privilege. You view more reward with less work as a privilege and I view the ability to build a fortune out of hard work a privilege. The ability to build a fortune out of hard work is the American dream.

The thing is just that being able to build a fortune through hard work isn't a privilege, it is mostly luck. That most people who have become rich have also worked hard for it doesn't mean that people who work hard will become rich by default.

Ultimately the defining property of becoming rich is luck, it is the only quality that all rich people share. Not everyone can become lucky and luck can be somewhat encouraged through hard work. (If you put yourself out there all the time the chance you catch a lucky break is greater then someone who doesn't put effort into it.) And then it becomes a numbers game.

Lets say that there are only a 1000 humans, 50% of them men and 50% of them women. Now lets say that only 1% of them will become lucky and become rich through their hard work, so that will make 10 people rich. Not everyone is willing to put in the hard work and effort it takes to become this lucky. Lets say that 70% of the men is willing to put in this effort but only 15% of women is willing to put in the effort. (women often work less hours and often stop working early in life because of children) That means (500/100)*70=350 men and (500/100)*15=75 women are trying to become one of these 10 people. So for every women that tries to become rich there are almost 5 men trying to become rich. When everything else is equal we would expect that there is one or maybe 2 rich women of the 10 rich people.

[–]bufedad 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, but this is a very, very, small minority of women.

Let me rephrase this for the reading impaired.

Every woman can marry a man and take what he has earned.

Millionaires are just the most extreme example.

[–]zellegion 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

small minority my ass, alimony exists and is applied near universally to women demanding money from men so they can keep their 'lifestyle'

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Showing women having the privilege of being given by law money they did not earn is not Apex fallacy.

Yes, but this is a very, very, small minority of women.

Not so, it's virtually every divorced women in a Commonwealth country.

The rest of the women still benefit from an alphabet soup of government subsidy programs that men are not eligible for. Women take more from the system than they pay in taxes.

[–]iloveyoubutyou 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I live in a family of divorce and none of the women are rich off alimony. Most of them have to work two jobs to make ends meet.

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I live in a family of divorce and none of the women are rich off alimony.

Not the point...

  • Showing women having the privilege of being given by law money they did not earn

Women are given money they did not earn by law, this is a fact.

Most of them have to work two jobs to make ends meet.

You mean the divorced dads paying alimony and CS. The women walk with all the family assets.

[–]iloveyoubutyou 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My grandfather doesn't pay alimony nor child support. Neither does my ex-uncle or my other ex-uncle. My grandmother and two aunts all have to work two jobs to make ends meet.

Also, awards of alimony are rare

"Unlike child support, which is common when divorcing couple has kids, alimony awards have always been very rare, going from about 25% of cases in the 1960s to about 10% today, said Judith McMullen, a professor of law at Marquette University."

[–]dukunt 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I read a few and left. Too much hate. Anyone complaining about the last 1000 years and still wanting justice is a fucking idiot.

Justice for what? She's just hating. She was never wronged by the system.

It's geared to protect women. At the expense of men.

But the changes are coming and every single time I see a man beating this rigged system we call justice I smile at her cringing. Real equality is coming and these disgusting rad-fems fight it every step of the way.

And as she said this legal system was created by men. We tried it there way with "believe all women" and the whole guilty until proven innocent thing and what a bloody disaster that was. Look at all the lawsuits! Look at all the men falsely accused and in prison, and look at all the feminists with egg on their faces.

Women don't lie about abuse eh? It's standard legal practice in divorce and custody cases. Ask any family lawyer.

It seems her rebuttals are all feelings based and without merit from what I saw. Choose your battles and she ain't it.

Feel good knowing that she will be forever a miserable sow that drives people away with her "pleasant" disposition. Doomed to be alone and unloved. At least not by any man.

Good night gentlemen.

[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And as she said this legal system was created by men

I dispute that. For virtually all my life (since 1980) a majority of American voters have been women. Voters choose politicians and politicians pass laws. If you're not talking about America then I'm sorry.

[–]iainmf 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

OP is agreeing that women are privileged. They are just trying to justify it.

A refutation would be 'that's not true because...' rather than 'yes, but...'

[–]Yoshiezibz 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It annoys me when western women, say ",babies are killed for being female". No one is saying women don't have it really difficult in some countries, but you can't use sexism of extremely poor and sexist countries to back up your claims.

Women are treated bad in places like Saudi. Don't think anyone is arguing anything different

[–]Blutarg 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It can't be that many babies because there literally isn't a country on earth where women don't have a longer life expectancy than men.

[–]Amazing_Rope_Police 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah yes. Board Gaming. Back when I used to hang out a few times at R / incelswithouthate (essentially controlled opposition for incels, as I slowly found out), Board Gaming was arguably the most influential figure there. She's a bigtime crybully feminist who uses a facade of objectivity and civility to drag her corpulent corpus to a moral high ground, while her rabid fans downvote you and rush you with replies. She even has a few mods as her simps, which is funny, because she claims to be a "femcel", i.e. a female incel.

Anyway... Pretty standard stuff. These are practically all apex fallacies and patriarchy bullshit.

MEN decised women can't work - not true, it was a combination of logical division of time and resources, necessity, traditions, and religion. A man had no more opportunity to raise his children and stay around the house, than a woman had to work. ONE singular man couldn't influence this system even if he wanted to - hell, I don't think even most kings could have turned it around. A king in my country tried to bring modernity into the land promoting craftsmen and the arts at the expense of lords - whst he got was that his kingdom was sold off after his death, and his son was chased away. As it turns out, enacting social change is typically a difficult thing to do.

Laws were made up by men - this is just straight up apex fallacy.

Women couldn't go to war, even if they wanted to - again, even if that's true, which I doubt, since regular armies only became a thing a while ago, and before that, I don't think lords were picky about the gender of the peasants with straightened scythes being cut down by cavalry - so even if this was true, that's once again, not the fault of men. In fact, I doubt anyone, man or woman, would be eager to go to war when they weren't conscripted. It's easy to talk about defending your country with your own blood when you aren't the one getting your head bashed in with a sword, getting shot through with a .30-06 rifle bullet, getting blown to pieces by grapeshot from a cannon, or having your lungs and face melted off by mustard gas. It's easy to stick white feathers on teenage boys. Try dying in a ditch at 18, as a virgin, for the amusement of the powers that be.

[–]g1455ofwater 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Reading what this person said about war didn't refute anything and just further provided proof of just how privileged women are. Not only did they not have to go to war they get to go and complain about that and act as if they are disadvantaged because of that. Both receiving huge privilege and then having the opportunity to present themselves as the bigger victim when they were in fact a lesser victim.

[–]InfiniteDials 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m not gonna refute everything here, but I will say this. Just because men creates the law doesn’t mean it isn’t a disadvantage. A patriarchy can disadvantage both men and women. To brush these complaints off by saying “a MAN created those rules though” is to insinuate that men aren’t allowed to complain about these things because it’s “their fault” which is ridiculous. Men aren’t a collective and not all of us have influence in culture and legal decision making.

PS: If you think being shipped off to war is a privilege, you’re just as idiotic as the people who’ve bought into military propaganda for centuries.

[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

For an example to what you are saying, a higher percentage of men than women are pro-choice on abortion, so it does not follow that more women writing laws about abortion would give women more rights.

[–]oldassbass 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course this would be in a board game subreddit lmao

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