Students Hate Toxic Masculinity... But Can't Define What It Is (including gender studies major who says, yeah we talk about it all the time, "what is it?" Ermmm I dunno) 😂 😂 😂 This is feminism goal of course... to get people to subconsciously associate men with "bad" "toxic"

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[–]StudentOfTheTruth0 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

What does she even mean by "puts men over females"? (Bad English, BTW.) In what sense? And, in whatever sense it might be, is there an institution in today's society that would dare to do anything even remotely like that (like making laws or rules that give preference to men)?

Oh, BTW if that "putting men over females" is such a horrible original sin, how about the opposite? Anything that puts "women over males" (to use her poor English). Because, you know, I have tons of examples. Affirmative action, quota systems, preferential admissions, preferential hiring, multiple times the spending on women's health issues over men's health issues, 2000+ women-only shelters vs. 0 men-only shelters even though men are 95% of the homeless once you count "rough sleepers", 60% of college students are women, 40% men, boys discriminated against in school, even in grading, 3 times more male suicides over female suicides, shall I continue? Because I can, try me.

HOW IS ALL THAT NOT "TOXIC"? You know, by putting "women over males", for crying out loud?

Wait, I got it: the worst, most cruel, most insidious behaviors are toxic only when they are directed at women. When directed at men, oh, then they are perfectly OK. Toxic behaviors towards men are even celebrated, you know, it shows the "strong and independent woman" acting.

So when women do bad things, it is strong and independent. When men do the exact same things, it is toxic.

If you are a gender studies major or feminist of any stripe who thinks like that then do me a favor and go away from this subreddit. This kind of defamation / demonization in completely bad faith, using completely insane double standards and hypocrisy, fully intended to cause harm to others is simply the very definition of what people know as the other "f" word. Feminism. Save us from that crap of yours, could you, all you gender studies majors?

[–]accidental_me 13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]anothergoodbook 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

You know sometimes stoicism is needed. My husband worked 18 hour days in the freezing cold and he didn’t get to leave until the job was done. He didn’t have the benefit of being tired and getting to stop. If he did stop (in a round about way) people don’t get their electricity. All of this bullshit toxic masculine doesn’t apply in that situation - when you want your lights to turn on. And I don’t see any feminists fighting to get more women out in the field with those guys. And they’d welcome anyone who can hold their own and get the job done (male or female).

I am of the belief that the term and idea of “toxic masculinity” is 100% bullshit. Some people are assholes. Men and women. But there needs to be a label for everything so it can be solved and eradicated. Instead of taking personal responsibility- we can blame and entire gender on our problems.

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[–]novhaku 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

"TM" is, hilariously enough, TM itself, using their own definition (funnily enough when they're trapped into a corner they'll say that TM isn't about the man, but about the other people pushing expectations on him (more often than not gender roles aren't what push people to have these ""expectations"" anyway, it's simply sexism or being an opportunist, but whatever...)... but then immediately deny that women are absolutely guilty of this first and foremost and the men who want to be accepted by these women follow suit. Hey, TM can't be a FEMALE problem now, can it? ).

Men often have very good reasons to do what they do. Men not opening themselves isn't because of "gender roles" or "toxic masculinity". What a joke. More often than not it's because most already tried and observed that society is sexist when it comes to this, and it will at best draw a target on the man's back, and him opening up will be used against him down the line. Men don't get as much sympathy as women (and this has nothing to do with TM or gender roles, the ones constantly talking about TM or gender roles like feminists are the ones that are the most guilty of it, sooo...). As a result, men don't open up, for GOOD and RATIONAL reasons, because they're not stupid. Not because of "gender roles and men being educated this way in order to "be a true man" ". But because they already tried and saw what it could cost you. And MORE IMPORTANTLY, they saw that people, even the most "progressive" ones, are hypocritical and opportunistic and they WILL use you opening up against you in an argument given the opportunity. Not because of gender roles, again, only because they needed to use it to "win" and it's a weapon as good as any other to use. That's not gender role. That's called being aware that people are opportunistic a-holes that will use anything you tell them against you if your relationship with the person becomes sore one day.

Anyway. By "explaining" men's reactions using "TM", gender roles, blah blah blah, instead of really wondering why the man is acting like that and the problems he went through, you're essentially practicing TM yourself, since you sum up the man to his gender role and nothing else, like his own terrible experiences (abuse, etc, whatever) that made him this way.

So yeah. People using the TM are actually being TM. You essentially use gender roles to ignore the person's hardships and sum it up as "as a man, he's just like this because of gender roles", which is implying that "he's tough and just a crybaby, nothing can possibly have caused that, he has just been raised this way by society" (great way to dismiss any possible female culprit, by the way).

It's one hell of a self-defeating argument, and they don't even notice it. It's summing up men as their gender and their gender roles, and nothing else had a role into creating the man as he is now.

[–]mhandanna[S] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]StudentOfTheTruth0 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Let me emphatically affirm what you just said. And I just know it, since I came to the US from a formerly Communist country (when I was about 30) so I am an expert on Marxism.

Feminism is "modified" or "updated" neo-Marxism where you simply replace the phrase "working class" with the word "women" and the words "capitalists", "bourgeoisie" and "imperialists" with the word "men". With these replacements you instantly turn a classical Marxist text into an instant feminist text and vice versa.

The sense in which feminism is even worse than Marxism is that Marxists at least claim one thing correctly: oppression is based on socio-economic status, simply put on just money, and not based on body parts like "the penis holders oppress the vagina holders" and nonsense like that. Basing hatred and discrimination not even on socio-economic class but on biology is the ultimate sin of feminism. You designate a biological group (white men, specifically) as the "group that everybody can and should hate", simply because they were born into that biological group.

OK, so the Nazis were convinced that "Aryan" and "Jewish" were biological "races". (Genetics didn't exist at the time.) So they designated a (for them) biological group as the to-be-hated group. This is the essential difference between Communist and Fascist ideology: when it comes to hatred, the basis is switched from class to biology.

The point is that feminism's relationship to Marxism is that feminism combines neo-Marxist phraseology and pseudo-scientific wording with the essential fascist method of sorting people out by biology (this part is purely fascist, even Marxists don't do this). So feminism is the worst since it combines the worst of Marxism with the worst of Fascism.

You read it here first.

[+]TMWF911 points 5 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

My girlfriend often tells me one thing she especially likes about me is the fact I'm not a toxic man. When I ask her what she thinks these attributes would be she just names the shit she doesnt like about her ex lmao

[+]NjalUlf1 points 5 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

You might want to exit that relationship. She sounds toxic. lol On a serious note though, a vindictive woman like that can be dangerous.

[–]haiti817 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]NjalUlf1 points 5 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

You could be the manliest man on the planet, vindictive women are still dangerous.

[–]haiti817 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not about being a manly man that’s not what a man is. A man is some who has his own set of value and standards and stick by them he also someone who about there purpose. A women can’t shame a man for being a man because there nothing wrong with simply asking a girl out or saying hi. What’s wrong with that? You didt cuss at them, you wasn’t disrespectful, you wast rude maybe you was arkward but there nothing wrong with that and a girl say that abuse well it’s not and you call her out on that. I have a girlfriend I been with her for a while she a good person but even she every few week she start doing thing that don’t make sense, she would complain cry fuss all that. I tell her she wrong because what she doing is wrong. I don’t apologize to shut her up and what end up happening the next day she apologize for the way she was behaving. If I’m with someone and they being vandictive I simply walk away and don’t deal with that person

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[+]BlooShamrock-1 points 5 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

wait what, didn't men make up that doormat mindset?

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Not only that, it's stupid and TM itself. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/kdys4v/students_hate_toxic_masculinity_but_cant_define/gg315jc/

Male gender roles are a very convenient scapegoat when you want to ignore anything and everything, particularly sexism that isn't particularly gender roles-related, just opportunism-related, that makes a man himself. It's not about what "a man should be" no matter how much they want to parrot this. It's a coping mechanism that is used because it's the only one that works when you don't get any sympathy. Your ex trashing you either during an argument or behind your back by using what you said to her when "opening up" most certainly isn't doing it because of your "gender role", the goal IS to hurt. What is called "TM" is an coping mechanism and the answer to experiences that showed you that, since you're born without breasts, most people will not care and will rally behind the opposite gender if needed, or will just disregard you since you're disposable (and the ones using the words TM constantly are usually the ones not caring the most against men issues). "Men's behaviour is because that's how they're supposed to be in order to be MANLY MEN!!". Nope. That's how you react when you're facing problems and don't get special treatment - well, don't get ANY treatment at all in the first place and are seen as the culprit for any and all of your problems. And women in the same situation adopt similar traits. Gender roles have a really good back.

[–]StudentOfTheTruth0 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]novhaku 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree overall but we're talking about different things referred to as "toxic masculinity". I'm talking about the supposed "gender roles that are forced on men that makes them behave an harmful way for themselves". E.g. not opening up, not recognizing being abused, etc, which is supposedly "because of gender roles", not because it's the behaviour enforced even by supposedly anti-gender roles people. I'm talking about the ones blaming any problem men have on male gender roles and the fault of the patriarchy, not about the ones saying that anything bad is toxic masculinity, that men are favored, or whatever else. I'm talking about the ones faking compassion to blame every problem men have on male gender roles all over again to avoid thinking about their own behaviour and how their own sexism cause it, not any kind of gender role. Feminists commonly use this argument to make people think that they believe that "toxic masculinity hurts men as well" (e.g. "the stigma of crying"..) and therefore they help men by fighting against it. When what they're fighting against, these "toxicv gender roles" making men behave this way, are coping mechanisms caused by sexism that shouldn't be fought but helped.

I'm talking about how these ones use the word, the ones handwaving men's problem as being caused by toxic masculinity (like, say, a man not admitting he's being abused; it HAS TO BE because of his pride and because of the fact that he wants to BE theTHE MANLY MAN, not because he wouldn't be believed and it would be used against him), so there's no need for women to consider their own bad behaviour towards men as well, it doesn't exist. "toxic masculinity" supposedly covers that as well. And it is a scam, as well, as I just said.

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[–]StudentOfTheTruth0 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait a minute ... are you saying that masculinity becomes "toxic" only when it hurts men and boys? That's rich. I thought I had always been always told that "toxic masculinity" is bad because it hurts women.

What, you feminists can't even make up your minds? Which one is it? When does masculinity become "toxic"? When it hurts men and boys? That's what "defines" it? Or does the concept have something to do with women, too? If so, what?

Just in case: if the answer is that masculinity becomes "toxic" when it hurts men and boys, then thank you, it is our internal problem, go away and leave us alone to sort it out. You are not needed. Stay out of this.

BTW, "internally" we know perfectly well that there is no problem with any kind of "toxic masculinity" because it doesn't exist. It was invented by feminists, together with their myriad other non-existing ghosts, bugaboos and boogey men, like "patriarchy", "male privilege" and the rest of the fantasy zoo. They use their phantom concepts as weapons to shame and humiliate men. What a shame they are.

OK, let's get real. I know exactly what false goods feminist are trying to sell. To feminist thinking, it is a lot simpler: masculinity is always toxic. Period. Just by its existence. That's because men are born only to be rapists, murderers and violent criminals. All of which are specifically intended by them to hurt women and girls. So men and boys have to be "punished" from birth on, just for being who they are, and just for daring to exist. Of course, women, essentially, with very, very few, almost non-existent exceptions, can never do anything wrong, mind you. By and large, they essentially never, ever are capable of violence, crime or fraud, they never lie ("believe all women!"), they are angels and they are the only possible victims in this world, nobody dare to compete with them for victimhood! It is that simple, isn't it. Masculinity doesn't need anything to become "toxic" for you. It is toxic, period, just by existing. Be honest here.

Anyway, whatever your muddled and confused answer might be, you are most likely a feminist woman. You have no business here. Can't you just stay away from this reddit? Stop your simping here, nobody needs it. Go back to FDS. Bye.

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Yeah, Not sure on that one. Men know when certain terms aren't referring to them. Not to take away from mental illness, but the general population can mostly be split from "not hurt about the word because they know its not them," and "hurt by it because they are who its talking about."

"Only toxic men feel hurt by the term toxic masculinity".

"Only criminals feel hurt by the term toxic blackness".

"Only terrorists feel hurt by the term toxic Islam".

God, I never knew feminism was so inclusive welcoming! /s

I don't value men based on their ability to convince women to sleep with them. I used the word to make the point that certain people have such a lack of connection to other human beings.

"I don't judge men based on whether they're attractive to women - I'm just accusing you all of being unattractive to women, because reasons".

Congrats - you're the exact type of person that makes 85% of the population shy away from calling themselves a feminist. A gleeful, unashamed, sexist bully who pretends to have the moral high ground. Hypocritical blowhard.

[–]Terkle -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Really got me there, huh.

"Only toxic men feel hurt by the term toxic masculinity".

"Only criminals feel hurt by the term toxic blackness".

"Only terrorists feel hurt by the term toxic Islam".

Because there's a constant attack on Both Islam and black people? I don't see a large portion of the population saying they literally hate men. Unless you're someone who gets their panties in a twist over a joke like KAM.

"I don't judge men based on whether they're attractive to women - I'm just accusing you all of being unattractive to women, because reasons".

When did I say all of you were unattractive to women? I said when you look at women as some sort of mythical creature, it doesn't exactly help you. Its literally just people. Personally I would say people don't call themselves feminists because of a poor reputation along with sJw oWnEd bEn sHapiRo cOmpiLatiOn. But totally, even though I care about issues for both genders, I'm a sexist bully.

LMAOOOO ALR

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[–]StudentOfTheTruth0 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you trying to insult ALL posters here by using the feminist attack word "incel"? Do you dare to try to call all MRAs "incels"? If so, shame on you. You are disgusting.

Well, here is news for you: I am a happily married man. Emphasis on "happily". Of course my wife is nothing like you. She is leagues and leagues above you. (I am convinced that you are a woman and a feminist.)

And as a happily married man, not as an "'incel", I am here to tell you: feminism is bad, very bad, and it has nothing to do with "equity" and has everything to do with power and money. And you are only a pathetic foot soldier and storm trooper trying to defend the female-supremacy empire called feminism.

So let's see what feminism really is about: power and money.

As for the money part: the federal, state and local funding going to feminist objectives, the funding going for the keeping of endless "women's issues" committees, councils, female-only spaces (men-only spaces practically don't exist, so much about "equity"), the upkeep of "women's studies" departments at universities (where are the "men's studies" departments, by the way, so much about "equity", again), the 2 to 3 times higher spending on women's health research (breast cancer has 6 times more funding than prostate cancer, even though more people die of prostate cancer), all that funding makes feminism a billion-dollar industry. Yes, it is an industry. Of course, you feminists want to hold onto those institutionally captured, unfair and illicit billions, but that makes you simply a billion dollar business. That's what feminists are: a bunch of greedy people trying to keep money flowing and trying to increase the flow for themselves.

As for the power part: the zillions of women-preferential rules and laws, including affirmative action, quota systems everywhere, preferential admissions and preferential hiring of women, all the ill-gotten billion-dollar funding going to you, mandated by the law, all the discrimination against boys and men in every imaginable place and occasion, the intentionally designed school system to favor girls and discriminate, hurt and traumatize boys - hey, all that power sure worked well for you!

I am also telling you: yes, the myriad ways men hurt in this society, including suicides, falling behind in school, missing out on college, all the deaths (beyond suicide, combat and work fatalities, all happening because society simply doesn't care and views men as disposable), the at least 43% of domestic violence victims who are never cared about, the male rape victims who are ridiculed, including by all-women "panels" in TV shows and never cared about, the lack of support systems for men, including health services, mental health services, just homeless shelters for crying out loud, the fathers violently separated from their children, and the list goes on endlessly), yes, all these hurts are to a very, very large degree due to feminism. They institutionally captured, among others, almost all of the media, which pushes their "narrative" that only women are worth to be called victims and only men can be criminal, who are also disposable, and the natural consequence of this - a society that is manipulated into viewing men as worthless and disposable, all criminals and rapists, and viewing women as innocent victims of them, yes, that resulted in most of the hurts men go through. It is the result of the feminist, woman-centered, gynocentric society, created and manipulated by feminists, yes, that is responsible for just about all, or at least most, suffering of men and boys in this society of glaring gender discrimination, inequity and manipulation. (No, the gender discrimination is NOT against your gender.)

Feminist succeeded, beyond their wildest dreams, of creating a society that essentially just doesn't care about men, and views them as disposable, whose existence is justified only by their utility value to women.

In short, yes, I totally blame the feminist movement, no matter what pious words they may say (masters of manipulation, after all), I blame them for the vast majority of the injustices and suffering caused to men by the kind of society feminists created. As a result, I consider the feminist movement a totalitarian and supremacist movement, whose goal is to gain as much money and power as possible, and eventually, to establish a female supremacist society. Many of them even fantasize about male genocide and gendercide (see Valerie Solanas and her followers, Sally Miller Gearhart and her followers, Radfem Hub members), in the most barbaric and brutal way possible.

And, no, heroic MRAs (including many women) don't need to be "incels" as you call them. They are simply people with a moral compass, unlike you. Most of them are married and later divorced, abused by the courts, fired from their jobs by false allegations and they want to live in a different, better and truly equal world.

Until that happens you screw off with your ridiculous and disgusting "incel"-izing, name calling and hate speech. Those things fit a feminist well, but this is an MRA reddit. Go away, back to FDS or wherever you came from. You are most likely a feminist woman who has no business being here. Take your simping elsewhere. Bye.

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