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UK: 'Bring back manly men!' Harry Styles is SLAMMED for wearing a dress in Vogue as jounalist insists 'no society can survive without strong' males. The feminization of men at the same time that Marxism is being taught to children is no coincidence

furchfur

November 16, 2020
26 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8954245/Harry-Styles-defended-Olivia-Wilde-Candace-Owens-attack-Vogue-shoot.html
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Title UK: 'Bring back manly men!' Harry Styles is SLAMMED for wearing a dress in Vogue as jounalist insists 'no society can survive without strong' males. The feminization of men at the same time that Marxism is being taught to children is no coincidence
Author

furchfur

Upvotes 26
Comments 107
Date November 16, 2020 6:54 PM UTC
(5 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/jvckm7/uk_bring_back_manly_men_harry_styles_is_slammed/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/uk-bring-back-manly-men-harry-styles-is-slammed.840621
https://theredarchive.com/post/840621
Red Pill terms in post
feminism
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Comments

[–]Bojack35 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I dont get the point you are making?

Is it bad that a journalist criticises him wearing a dress because they are pushing a version of masculinity?

Or bad that he is wearing a dress because this is feminising men?

How is Marxism relevant?

[–]SonnBaz 41 points42 points43 points 5 years ago (42 children) | Copy Link

Men should be able to wear what we fucking want.

[+][deleted] -10 points-9 points-8 points 5 years ago* (41 children) | Copy Link

No.

That’s Disgusting.

I don’t support this degenerate behavior at all.

Edit: I’ve been permanently banned from here. Darin ahead.

[–]SonnBaz 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

I think you're in the wrong movement then.

[–]Journey95U -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

No you are a cuck, men shouldn't be feminine

[–]SonnBaz 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Lmao. Go back to the 50s you gremlin.

[–]Journey95U 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

50s? Literally 10 years ago this wouldn't have happened. If you are on this sub a lot you would see how hypocritical feminists are. They HATE masculinity and want to brainwash men. This is just another step

Or are you one of those cucks who prefer r/MensLib over this sub anyway?

[–]SonnBaz 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Feminists are hypocritical, you're right on something at least.

What the fuck does supporting men's right to wear what we want have anything to do with hating masculinity? If a man wants to be feminine then let him, stop being an ass hat who can't mind his own fucking business. Go back to r/the_donald . You conservative cucks a blot on the MRM. You're here to hate SJWs, not support men's rights.

[–]Journey95U 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Hating on SJW's is connected with men's rights you moron. Who do you think those hypocritical feminists are? Conservatives? Nope, they are leftist woke shits.

You don't get the connection between promoting feminine men while shaming masculine men? Its not like they are saying be how you want, they actively trash masculinity while they want men to become more feminine and weak.

Don't be fooled, wake up

[–]SonnBaz 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I never said we should shame masculine men. You just assumed that.

Its not like they are saying be how you want

You are though.

Hating on SJW's is connected with men's rights you moron. Who do you think those hypocritical feminists are? Conservatives? Nope, they are leftist woke shits.

You're the one who brought them(feminists) up, not me. Why the fuck did you bring them up? They're barely, if at all, related to this.

hey actively trash masculinity while they want men to become more feminine and weak.

And they're assholes but what does have to do with supporting feminine men????????????????? You're just drawing assumptions out of your ass. No one is saying masculinity is shit here, you just assumed that.

Not everything is a woke conspiracy you nut case. We should support men in what they want to be, whether it's them being feminine or masculine. That's the entire fucking point of the MRM.

[–]Journey95U 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Lol they are related to this in every way, you can't be so fucking naive..

Feminists support feminine men and shame masculine men to brainwash people. We shouldn't accept their propaganda. Shit like this dress crap is how they promote their agenda.

Nothing to do with being a nut case, you are the naive one. Its no surprise feminists have so much power now when they get "MRA" like you fooled

[–]MemeTurtle123456 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a dress calm the fuck down

[+][deleted] -9 points-8 points-7 points 5 years ago* (21 children) | Copy Link

You’re in the wrong movement.

Stop promoting male feminization/emasculation agenda in the name of MRA or Feminism.

We don’t support this degenerate behavior here nor we support mental illness.

Just because I support MRA that doesn’t mean I’m okay with men wearing flowery fairy outfits and doing degenerate things.

Real Men Are Real Men.

Real Men like me won’t give a fuck about this nonesense.

Edit: I’ve been permanently banned from here. Darin ahead.

[–]jacksleepshere 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Huh. What about gay men? Or just camp men? Do you think they should change their behaviour? And what do you mean you don’t support mental illnesses?

[–]SonnBaz 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

If you don't support men's right to wear what they want then what rights are you even supporting?

[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 5 years ago* (17 children) | Copy Link

I’m supporting rights:

Fathers needs to be treated fairly and equally as mothers. By LAW globally.

A male shouldn’t be assumed suspect or doer because that’s how it is. Well it shouldn’t be like this, LAW needs to treat both females and males equally

Media should suffer grievous repercussions for pasted a alleged/not found guilty yet male as a doer of any crime or incident.

Men should be able opt out from child support.

After delivering the woman must produce dna result So the father can be certain that the this is his child.

Both males and females should require to Play their gender roles by the LAW globally, If they do not play their gender roles then they should meet grievous legal and societal repercussions. And this law should be put in full throttle aggressively, Otherwise the word will keep falling.

Globally Feminism should be declared terrorist group and anti-male ideology and revolution as it is. Those who support/promote will suffer grievous legal repercussions. Feminism should be banned and make it illegal.

Males are the leaders, They should always provide for his family and his woman, Real Men provide resources and real good women make home.

Females shouldn’t be able to point her finger towards LITERALLY any male and get him lynched. Females shouldn’t be believed just become they’re females, Both males and females should be listened, And if the rape can’t be proven against that male then he cannot be persecuted, If anyone in society takes the matter into their hands then those will be grievously legally persecuted.

No gender discrimination at work, No gender quotas BS, Hire the right and qualified person. That’s it.

Globally ban of genital mutilation no matter female or male, Those find practicing such acts will grievously legally punished.

Police and law globally should listen both sides of the couple, Men and women both should be listened, Men shouldn’t be assumed domestic violence perpetrators because they are men.

Etc.

Just to name a few main things that I wanna see change direly.

I only support males who only love females. Aka Real Normal Males.

I don’t support mental illness.

Edit: I’ve been permanently banned from here. Darin ahead.

[–]cherrymangocuts 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I guess you don't support yourself because for all of human history, in every damn community, a certain minority of men are gay. It's natural selection. Mammals generally always have a gay minority. Nothing wrong with the gays You're the sick one.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay!

Edit: I’ve been permanently banned from here. Darin ahead.

[+]czkep1 points 5 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

You are ridiculous just shut up redneck you are crying because a dress, you are weak, also you don’t loves women you are sexist. Gets a life.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I Love Women.

And I’m Indian!

Edit: I’ve been permanently banned from here. Darin ahead.

[–]SonnBaz 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Why not support mens right to wear what we want?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

Because I don’t support mental illness (I know why you want me to be specific but you know what I mean)

And I don’t support degenerate behavior.

Edit: I’ve been permanently banned from here. Darin ahead.

[–]SonnBaz 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

This is not a mental illness. What are you on about?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

A male not wanting to be with females is not mental illness?

Fuck Off.

Stop trying to pretend males dressing as females is not mental illness.

Stop normalizing this degenerate behavior and mental illness as “xyz-sexual” and all that BS. Disgusting.

You can promote, normalize and practice such degenerate behavior with your degenerate feminist scum friends.

Fuck off to feminist shithole r/Menslib

Edit: I’ve been permanently banned from here. Darin ahead.

[–]Nocuntsallowed 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Fuck off you cunt. I see what you've written below as well, you really are a cunt. Men should have the right not to be subject to cuntish opinions like yours! Fucking Incel Cunt!

https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets

You need Satan in your life!

Hail Satan, Hail yourself! Fuck this Cunt!

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

So you made this account just to say all that BS to me? Really?

You got issues. Scum.

LMFAO 💀

Edit: I’ve been permanently banned from here. Darin ahead.

[–]OnlyGenz 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Have you ever thought about the consequences of denying ones freedom of expression? This ideology that men should be the one making all the money and women should not is the underlying issue of why so many men commit. They feel they have they must carry extra weights. Changing the gender norms to create healthy forms of expression for young men and women is so benifical.

[–]Ratboy73 13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

It's sexist to tell men how to act, dress and behave. Men can wear dresses if they want to, men can be "feminine" if they want to. People need to fucking get over it.

​

Crazy to see how many self proclaimed "men's rights activists" have an issue with a man dressing as he pleases. Clearly you don't care about equality, you just care about your bias, skewed ideals.

​

edit: put the word "feminine" in quotes because masculinity and femininity are just based off what people/culture at the time deems the norm.

[–]Nath43673 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Crazy to see how many self proclaimed "men's rights activists" have an issue with a man dressing as he pleases.

I don't see much evidence for that here. Right now there's 1 comment like that and it's already being downvoted.

[–]Ratboy73 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Not necessarily on here, just in general, Ben Shapiro and a whole bunch of others spreading so much hate. I was actually pleasantly surprised by the community reaction here

It's also... ya know, what the linked article is about?

[–]Nath43673 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

So Candace Owens seems like a bit of a conservative ideologue. I don't see anything about her being an MRA, nor any reference to anyone else agreeing with her.

I'm happy to concede that MRAs as a group aren't perfect, just like feminists aren't.

[–]Ratboy73 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Never mentioned feminism. I'm making a statement, I think it's crazy that a whole bunch of people who claim to be activists for men's rights simply use that as an excuse to push their own views, like, for example, in this case. That's all.

[–]Nath43673 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

OK sure, but does Ben Shapiro claim to be an MRA either?

[–]Ratboy73 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Maybe Shapiro was a bad example, but seriously, what's your gripe man? (Also, just so you know, Candace Owens is spouting shit about how feminism is demasculating men, this isn't claiming herself to be an MRA but she's acting like her ignorance is helping Men's rights, when it is not) but I really dunno what your issue with me is. I'm not even the only person to voice this opinion on this post.

[–]Nath43673 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, I don't have a gripe with you, but you came into this thread with this statement: "Clearly you don't care about equality, you just care about your bias, skewed ideals." and I assumed you were directing it to the members of this sub.

Based on what you've said since, I think you were directing it at people like Candace Owens.

[–]Journey95U -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

moron, no wonder feminists are taking over when even men think like this

[–]ChristianMB1 19 points20 points21 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I mean.....as a “Mens’ Rights Activist” shouldn’t you be happy for Harry Styles breaking from the societal rules placed upon men, and defending his rights to do whatever he wants?

The anti-MRA stance should theoretically be the one taken by Candace Owens, who is a woman trying to shame men out of expressing themselves.

[–]Ok-Rush-5486 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

but then again, its an ugly ass dress

[–]novhaku -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

This is pretty much the real problem. Wear whatever you want. Just don't expect a special treatment for it though, like how you're so strong or better than others for daring to go against social norms.

And if what you wear looks bad on you and it looks ridiculous, it looks bad on you. Period. it being "progressive" doesn't stop people from having an opinion, particularly if you're a celebrity. The combo "doing something in order to be provocative"+using "tolerance" as a way to silence people's opinion is the problem.

Remove that part, and everyone should be free to do whatever they want. It just gets a pretty bad rap because this kind of thing being used as some kind of stunt to be talked about isn't exactly rare.

[+]czkep1 points 5 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

This only provoc idiots, angry conservative aren’t angry because the dress is ugly they are angry it’s a dress and they thinks men shouldn’t wear dress

[–]novhaku -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's not what I meant by provocative, I was thinking about celebrities purposely wearing things they know will cause a shitstorm purely for the sake of mediatisation because they know people will talk about it and that's it. I don't know this person at all so it may not be the case here, but I've seen this with enough musicians to be wary about this kind of things. If he wants to wear a dress, more power to him, I guess I've just seen too many publicity stunts like that.

[–]Journey95U 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are a moron, this is a way to feminize men and make them weak

[+]ShortTailBoa -8 points-7 points-6 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

No because this is the socially accepted way for men to express themselves.

We don't need to support Styles because he's already supported the mainstream media. It's other groups that are more agressive that we need to support since they're constantly demonized by the media and feminist.

[–]ChristianMB1 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Considering the massive controversy stirred up by conservatives around this, I beg to differ with the idea that it’s socially acceptable for men to do this.

Mainstream media is getting weaker and weaker, while social media is getting stronger. The liberal/conservative split in new media is roughly 50/50, and in this case it’s the right trying to prevent men from expressing themselves.

I’ve never heard of a serious feminist trying to restrict what men wear, but the right is doing it in this instance.

[–]Ok-Rush-5486 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

sources on that bias figure?

[–]ChristianMB1 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s pretty self explanatory. New media outlets are open to all, so unless there’s more liberals than there are conservatives in the world, then there shouldn’t be any more on the internet.

[–]Ok-Rush-5486 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

ok. if you're talking about the internet, i totally see where you are coming from.

[–]manderstits 16 points17 points18 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Unh? The Spartans where overwhelming bisexual and they were pretty Manly men

[–]SirDrippinBalls 15 points16 points17 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Pretty sure there are a few cultural differences between Ancient Spartans and the LGBT Community of today

[–]OTS_ 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Indeed

[+]manderstits -7 points-6 points-5 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Care to give some historical based facts here? Or else I call your BS.

[–]JustaChapNamedGeorge 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I could try to offer some insight. Since the Library of Alexandria kiiiiinda upgraded to ashes, we have lost so much information about Ancient Hellenic society but based on what we know, Ancient Greek men and women would bang with men and women at specific ceremonies ( which included same sex orgies for men and women in an attempt to please Dionysus, the God of fertility, ritual madness, religious ecstacy and of course wine and theatre). Now, based on whatever education the Greek public education system has offered me, I'd say that what we consider as homosexuality today ain't exactly what they thought of back then. One educated guess I'd make is that, men and women mostly participated in these ceremonies with people they were already familiar with, like close friends. So, homosexuality back then could've just been an extension of friendship and trust. But because we lack information or the current information we have cannot be translated, it ain't certain.

I could of course be wrong or be missing some details, as our education system isn't exactly unbiased. But my best working theory is that, homosexuality of the ancient Greeks was part of friendship, as sexual intercourse is a rather intimate process, which requires trust, especially in religious ceremonies.

[–]manderstits -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

II not going to write lots in here, ni point as people gave made their minds up but you are way short of the mark of homosexualiyy in Spartan society. You should know there was no "Greek" society in circa 600 BC but city states with extremely different cultural traditions. In Sparta women were for duty men were for relationships- we have first hand primary sources of love poems by men for men, the Spartan army beleived that men would fight harder for their lover than just a friend, etc, etc. We don't need half arsed theories when we have historical fact. Did not realise this is a homophobic board.

[–]JustaChapNamedGeorge 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I told you, this is based on what I know and I made an educated guess based on what my school taught me. I underlined that "I could be wrong" and I am aware of the differences between the multiple city states of Ancient Greece, there were however common ritual lines. For the uptenth time, note the phrases "I could be wrong" and "educated guess", I had no intention of being a homophobe, I was just sharing what I already know.

[–]manderstits 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You school is out of date/taught you wrong. There are plenty of books on ancient Greek society available. Sexuality pre Christian and pre Roman for Greek society was very different and gender affiliations very different - Sparta is an extreme case and different in degree from that practised by say Athens or Corinth. But nevertheless they were a homosexual society - both male and female but nominally heterosexual for the purposes of procreation. Homophobic reference is for the group rather than at you. Ancient Greek society was like that and that's just a fact and downvoting a fact is like Trump believing he won - just deluded.

[–]Journey95U 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

moron

[–]northseaview 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Marxism is not being taught in schools. You are delusional. Men can be masculine or feminine as long as they are healthy and have a fulfilling life.

[–]Journey95U 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

no wonder feminist are taking over with dumb men like you

[–]__pulsar -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Marxism is not being taught in schools. You are delusional

You are the delusional one. Critical race theory is Marxism and is widespread in our education system.

[–]smartyr228 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's being taught as in "here's what Marxism is"

Every other government system is taught too

[–]northseaview -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

OK, had to look it up first as not familiar with it. And as I suspected, it is feminism not Marxism. If you are talking about university, then yes Feminism is taught in many arts and social science courses, but that is not Marxism, which explains history and struggle in terms of economic class relations. Marxism is probably taught in a few less common courses at a minority of universities and may also be misrepresented in many feminist and postmodern studies.

It is not taught in schools, where children go.

[–]cherrymangocuts 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Marxist professors are persecuted in American colleges, including Marxists profs who teach capitalist economics classes with good reviews from students. Look at the U of Vermont case. Or ask Richard Wolff.

The one thing you don't learn in the US school system is Marx. Critical race theory, intersectionality, etc are NOT Marxism. But students SHOULD Be studying Marx and Smith, Ricardo, Kant, Descartes, JS Mill, Nietzsche, Jesus, Buddha, and everyone else etc etc.

[–]novhaku -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Add to that, not pushed in one way or the other by their family/culture/etc. A man being as masculine or feminine as he wants to is good, but only if it's not because he's taught that he will be "better", "more tolerant", less "toxic" (since he deviates from gender norms) or whatever else if he is. That's where the problem usually lies.

[–]Satanks 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Imagine if this was a woman wearing a suit, do you think we'd be getting this reaction? No. It's unfortunate that people are getting so upset over a man wearing clothes, this narrative that anyone going against gender norms is 'destroying society' is the kind of thing fascists say. In their mind anything that deviates from their own ideal must be evil.

[–]elebrin 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I am fine with men doing things like this. I just don't want it to be come the expected norm.

I dress very conservatively, in long sleeve buttonups and casual pants with leather shoes. leather belts, and so on most of the time. I have no tattoos and no piercings, my hair is its natural color, and I've taken to going cleanshaven recently. If/when I start going bald, I'll shave my head, too. I've been called out and told that I look good for the way I dress, as well.

I don't really want to get to a point where men are expected to dress flamboyantly and have facial tattoos and a ton of piercings with bright pink hair, with half their head shaved and 10 inches on the other side. I think men should be allowed to do what they want, but I think conservative dress should also be acceptable without negative connotations.

[–]Redfred94 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well yeah that's the point, that there shouldn't be any expected norm.

If Harry wants to wear a dress, good for him.

If you want to wear whatever, good for you.

Ideally, neither person gets called less of a man for doing that.

[–]novhaku 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ideally, neither side should give a f**k. Sadly, it's not where we are at right now. Between the ones advocating for REAL MEN™ and the ones saying that "men should do [x] because otherwise they're just following gender roles", both sides look pretty bad.

I don't trust it at all when it comes to celebrities, but it's more closely related to the fact that this kind of stunt is often used purely for the shck and the marketing factors rather than anything else, rather than any kind of gender roles.

[–]converter-bot -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

10 inches is 25.4 cm

[–]cherrymangocuts 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Marxism is pretty manly though. Nothing really to do with gender. And is ok to teach to children along with religion, capitalism, liberalism, or whatever.

[–]ApprehensiveMail8 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If Harry Styles wanted to walk down the street wearing a dress I'd say more power to him. But that's not what this is.

He is wearing a dress on the cover of a female-published fashion magazine that has NEVER shown a solo male before. The editors put him in a dress because they still aren't 100% comfortable with showing masculinity, it wasn't his choice.

It would be like if someone decided that the new Vice President should grow a beard, so the men don't feel uncomfortable around her.

[–]TheJetsKilledCarl 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you posting this to criticise Owens or Styles? Styles can wear whatever he wants. The dress looked cool.

[–]Dunkolunko 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

He looks stupid in the dress as it isn't tailored for a male bidy but who cares? He's making a statement and I think it's fine. Let men wear dresses if they want.

[–]novhaku -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the exact opposite. He can wear whatever he wants. But if it's just a "statement" and is taken as something to be encouraged then it becomes problematic (and then there's the fact that these things are often stunts made to make people talk about it in a commercial way, and this has been done often enough for people to be suspicious about it, but who knows if it applies in this particular case or not).

Men wearing dresses if they want to = good (although if the person look bad in a particular dress, it's a fair opinion as well) and it shouldn't be a problem. Pushing for it in a "this is an example, this is brave, this is going against gender norms" = bad. It should neither be encouraged (as a "message") or blamed. Which is more often than not how the debate is polarized when it comes to "gender roles". There's the "brave, non-toxic one going against society's indoctrination and the bad one trapped by gender norms. I like neither of these and the middle ground is sadly enough quite rare.

Ultimately, the best option would have been for absolutely no one to open their mouth about this.

[–]SirDrippinBalls 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Well they are right. No society can indeed survive without strong males, even though wearing a dress doesn't make you less of a strong male.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Completely false.

[–]SirDrippinBalls 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Let's face the truth, society got carried through men over the entire existence of humanity, and it will be the same in the future

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but there's no longer a need for any of the arbitrary gender roles of the past. Male or female.

Technology has alleviated the need for them.

[–]Banake 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess Owens and Shapiro don't like David Bowie#/media/File:TheManWhoSoldtheWorld.jpg).

[–]TRexDin0 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She's probably jealous because he looks so much better in a hoop skirt than she ever will. I don't know what's up with her obsession with Marxism. Sometimes a dress is just a dress.

[+]ArchVileRespawned0 points 5 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

This shit is so fucking dumb. Nearly 100% of men don't want to dress like that. Nearly 100% of women wouldn't find men dressing like that to be attractive. None of this is particularly important.

This jackoff dressing like an idiot helps no one except the brands involved. What is with this obsession to get men to be feminine? It seems degrading to masculinity to me.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminisation and emasculating males is what is the main goal of Feminism.

Disgusting.

FF.

[–]Flatoutovercrest -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

100

[–]Nath43673 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

None of this is particularly important.

It might help to think about it this way: Right now, this is super-important for a relatively small number of people and society is a bit obsessed with talking about it because it's new and controversial and other people are making a stink about it. Eventually, that'll all settle down and it won't be constantly in your face unless you go looking for it.

What is with this obsession to get men to be feminine? It seems degrading to masculinity to me.

Again, the conversation around masculinity is fraught, unbalanced and lacking in nuance right now, with a lot of men feeling targeted or degraded (sometimes with good reason), but again it won't be that way forever.

[–]Ratboy73 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You don't have to get it, if it makes people happy, let 'em be happy. Don't be sexist?

[–]novhaku 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Extreme opposite reaction coming from an extreme behaviour from the other side. This is pretty much an example of a direct backslash of ""progressivism"" that keeps trying to make emasculation like the "good" choice that should be aimed at, otherwise you're toxic and just conforming to gender roles and it's automatically bad. Otherwise, people would probably laugh at it as well, but not as vehemently.

Extremism in one way tends to cause extremism in the opposite way down the line. And we've been pretty bad when it comes to this for both sides. It'll probably only get better the day both sides stop pushing their ideology through the other side's throat.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

I don't care how anyone wants to spin in a guy in dress is NOT manly. It's disgusting.
Here I thought Olivia Wilde was intelligent. Professional pretenders usually show their true selves.

[–]Ratboy73 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

This. Is. Sexism.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

NO. It. Is. Not.
We are different. CLothing is made for body type and two sexes; some even unisex as the item is typically functional and serves a purpose.

[–]Bartielomeus 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

let's skip past the part where you're sexist and need to look at yourself as a MR activist. Biologically, dresses and skirts are better for your balls. So your argument is invalid

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

"Biologically, dresses and skirts are better for your balls. So your argument is invalid" - Now you've proven you do NOT know what you're talking about.
Proper fitting clothing for each of the two sexes and corresponding two genders (I'm sure facts are going to upset you.) is what's best.
Female clothing is built for THEIR body type not male body types. You cheapen yourself and that is quite sad.

[–]Bartielomeus 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh man, are you like sad and old that you're like this? you say that I have proven that I don't know what I am talking about, meanwhile you say"Proper fitting clothing for each of the two sexes and corresponding two genders (I'm sure facts are going to upset you.) is what's best." I'm not even gonna get into the genders thing I don't give a fuck. But dresses and skirts would reduce testicle cancer you idiotic donut. Stop pretending you know things better and start looking at yourself. I hope you have some fucking normal, smart people in your enviremont. Please speak with them and learn something. Because it's kinda sad you are spouting your conservative old man ideas trying to cling to a bygone era. Nobody cares about your shitty ideas. The only reason people comment on you is because they feel bad for you, and they want to express that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You should 'give a F' about the two sexes/genders. On a level we are the same but mostly different. We compliment each other.
Clothing does NOT cause testicular cancer:
An undescended testicle Family history of testicular cancer HIV infection Carcinoma in situ of the testicle Being of a certain race/ethnicity Body size Having had testicular cancer before
I don't care what you think of me. Suggesting that men should in any way wear women's clothing is DISGUSTING.
*Before you try, kilts are NOT dresses or skirts and are exclusive to the Scottish culture.
You do nothing but cheapen yourself even further.

[–]Bartielomeus 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Shut the fuck and get your sexist ass out of here. You represent nothing masculine and only promote an antiquated way off thinking. I wear what ever the fuck I want because I don't need anyone telling me what I should wear, and no old bitch on reddit is going to change that for the next generation. Try and hide behind your lies. Nobody cares about your limiting toxic mindset

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

  1. You don't speak for anyone but yourself.
  2. Cussing and insults are the lowest form of arguing. That says plenty about you.
  3. Human standards are not 'old' as the majority decides what is accepted. It's how laws are passed.
  4. You can wear whatever but you're not going to stop someone from laughing at how ridiculous you look if you are a 'male' who wears women's clothing.
  5. I'm not a woman. *Name calling has no effect but feel free to keep foaming at the mouth.
  6. There's nothing toxic about certain clothes for men and others for women. Your subjective opinion is not fact.
    *Reddit not the be all for anything. It's just another social media platfrom where anyone can create their own little world(sub) where they control who and what goes on in it.
    If anyone here is toxic, it is you.

[–]Ratboy73 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

And previously women were told they shouldn't wear pants and to stick with dresses. Grow up, shit changes, why restrict what someone can wear because YOU don't like it?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Grow up? Whatever. You probably also think men can become women and vice versa.

[–]Ratboy73 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

This. Is. Transphobic

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It. Is. Not.
I don't care about buzzwords. Biology/DNA is the identifier no matter what a person thinks they are. They. Are. A. Minority.
They do NOT define the majority.

[–]novhaku 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Since when does something have to be a majority for it to be acceptable? I'd understand the point if it directly has an effect on you (transperson not disclosing their birth gender before dating you or whatever) but.. this isn't about what "defines the majority" at all? If it was saying that "all men must wear skirts in order to prove that they're real men and not slaves to gender roles" you'd have a point, but this is not what this is about. At all.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Abnormal things are simply accepted as reality. Existing never means 100% accepted.
No matter how you spin it.......a male wearing a dress is NOT manly.
Tolerance is only good to a certain point then it becomes a problem.
"If it was saying that "all men must wear skirts in order to prove that they're real men and not slaves to gender roles" - That's not an argument or a standpoint. 😆

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck Off.

[–]Banake -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Wasn't Candence Owen involved on some controversy some years ago...? I think I just listened to that Dave Rubin episode with Blaire White. She didn't make a good presentation of herself. I hope that I don't need to say that I am in Oliva Wilde's side on this one. (I don't know enought about Oliva to know if I agree with her on anything else, but on this one thing, I am with her.)

[–]antilopes -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes, Candace Owens created and drove the Social Autopsy train wreck as a project in spectacularly ignorant air-headed narcissistic grifting, after it had been shown to be hugely counterproductive to its stated goals of fighting harassment on the internet.

She made herself completely persona non grata with the SJW types who were originally her natural allies. But never mind, the Gamergate guys were watching the whole shitshow with glee, since she was actually trying to build a hugely powerful internet harrassment engine.

She claimed to be too stupid to realise it, even when it was explained to her at length by experts like Randi Lee Harper and Zoe Quinn. Narcissism is a hell of a drug.

Anyway she was now the Gamergaters' plaything and they hooked her up with Milo. She's pretty, ambitious, black and speaks Bullshit as a first language, so it was a short hop to becoming a popular Republican rabble rouser.

Harper wrote a calmer piece earlier on but this one to Candace is more entertaining, when the train was going off the bridge:
https://medium.com/@randileeharper/an-open-letter-to-social-autopsy-ae64fccdcfe

Here's an overview of the drama:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/04/how-social-autopsy-fell-for-gamergate-trutherism.html

[–]Banake -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Well, Zoe Quinn is an expert. As she made a false accusation against Holowka that push him to suicide. :-/

Takes one to know one, I guess.

[–]antilopes -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

IIRC he explicitly rejected that idea in the note he left, he knew people would try to blame her.

But that is getting into irrelevant detail, I'm not here to relitigate GG or defend Zoe. Candace Owens is the subject here, being a prominent Trumpist.

She was at the astonishing level of ignorance where she did not recognise the name "Zoe Quinn" and decided she was part of Gamergate, not their most famous victim and the founder of the anti-harassnent organisation Crash Override.

She also had never seen the term "dox" before. I.e. she was a total noob and fraud who had not done the slightest bit of research into the subject she had been frantically raising so much money for.

Somehow her whole technical team also maintained a heroic level of ignorance, or she did not interact with them which is equally bad.

[–]Banake 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That Owens is a hack I don't doubt, but this doesn't mean I like Quinn or Harper.

[–]Banake 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

https://amp.thepostmillennial.com/exclusive-alec-holowkas-private-messages-reveal-zoe-quinns-abuse/

https://thepostmillennial.com/exclusive-zoe-quinns-allegations-are-falling-apart

I don't actually like The Post Millennial very much, but this seems to check to me.

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