Why Shouldn't Men be Circumcised?

DarthEquus · 2020-10-05T23:22:52+00:00

It's a body modification forced on infants and children, more specifically on their genitals. It removes highly erogenous and functional tissue, causes unnecessary pain and trauma, and can lead to health complications up to, and including, death.

Historically, both in ancient religion and medicine, it was performed for the explicit purpose to control, suppress, and damage male sexuality. All the medical justification given today are cheap excuses to retroactively justify it.

When men are not circumcised as helpless children and are allowed to keep their foreskin up to adulthood when they are free to elect being circumcised of their own volition, they almost never do. Isn't that awfully telling?

If I may, I would recommend checking out this presentation, Sex and Circumcision: An American Love Story. It is highly informative and should at least provide you with some laughs.

Also, we have a lot more information available on r/Intactivism.

MrSmigick · 2020-10-05T23:32:16+00:00

Circumcision is genital mutilation.

The functions of the foreskin and the adverse effects of circumcision

The foreskin has several functions and accounts for most of the sensitivity of the penis.

A comparison of the sensitivity of an uncircumcised penis and a circumcised one.

The normal glans is an internal structure, only exposed briefly during urination, washing, and sexual arousal. Its surface is moist and is not keratinised. However, circumcision converts the glans into an external organ. Immediately after the operation, it retains its exquisite sensitivity, and contact with clothing causes considerable discomfort, but it soon becomes desensitised, probably as a result of the laying down of a layer of keratin on the epithelium. A few circumcised men report persistent discomfort from contact with clothing throughout their lives. The epithelium takes on the character of skin instead of a mucous membrane.

Not only is the appearance of the glans altered, but also there is a dramatic loss of sensitivity.

A keratinised circumcised penis and an uncircumcised penis.

No data is collected on the complications and risks of circumcision in America as there is no legal obligation to do so. Infections, haemorrhages, meatal strictures, (partial) amputations of the penis and deaths occur. Even circumcisions performed in sterile environments result in a lot of complications. Over 100 babies die in the US every year because of complications during the procedure. When circumcision is performed in other, less developed countries, the risks are even higher.

Pictures of complications in adults

Pictures of complications in infants

Pictures of complications in tribal men

Many cut men suffer from meatal stenosis

Fine‐touch pressure thresholds in the adult penis

CONCLUSIONS: The glans of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis. Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

Male circumcision decreases penile sensitivity as measured in a large cohort

CONCLUSIONS: This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning. Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population. Before circumcision without medical indication, adult men, and parents considering circumcision of their sons, should be informed of the importance of the foreskin in male sexuality.

The effect of male circumcision on sexuality

CONCLUSIONS: There was a decrease in masturbatory pleasure and sexual enjoyment after circumcision, indicating that adult circumcision adversely affects sexual function in many men, possibly because of complications of the surgery and a loss of nerve endings.

The prepuce: specialised mucosa of the penis and its loss to circumcision

CONCLUSIONS: The amount of tissue loss estimated in the present study is more than most parents envisage from pre‐operative counselling. Circumcision also ablates junctional mucosa that appears to be an important component of the overall sensory mechanism of the human penis.

Erectile function evaluation after adult circumcision

CONCLUSIONS: Adult circumcision has certain effect on erectile function, to which more importance should be attached.

Male circumcision and sexual function in men and women: a survey-based, cross-sectional study in Denmark

CONCLUSIONS: Circumcision was associated with frequent orgasm difficulties in Danish men and with a range of frequent sexual difficulties in women, notably orgasm difficulties, dyspareunia and a sense of incomplete sexual needs fulfilment. Thorough examination of these matters in areas where male circumcision is more common is warranted.

Variability in penile appearance and penile findings: a prospective study

CONCLUSIONS: There are significant variations of appearance in circumcised boys; clinical findings are much more common in these boys than previously reported in retrospective studies. The circumcised penis requires more care than the intact penis during the first 3 years of life. Parents should be instructed to retract and clean any skin covering the glans in circumcised boys, to prevent adhesions forming and debris from accumulating. Penile inflammation (balanitis) may be more common in circumcised boys; preputial stenosis (phimosis) affects circumcised and intact boys with equal frequency. The revision of circumcision for purely cosmetic reasons should be discouraged on both medical and ethical grounds.

Cultural background, non-therapeutic circumcision and the risk of meatal stenosis and other urethral stricture disease: Two nationwide register-based cohort studies in Denmark 1977–2013

CONCLUSIONS: Our study provides population-based epidemiological evidence that circumcision removes the natural protection against meatal stenosis and, possibly, other USDs as well.

A comparison of condom use perceptions and behaviours between circumcised and intact men attending sexually transmitted disease clinics in the United States

CONCLUSIONS: Multivariate findings supported the conclusion that intact men may use condoms more frequently and that confidence predicts use, suggesting that intervention programmes should focus on building men's confidence to use condoms, especially for circumcised men.

The psychological impact of circumcision.

CONCLUSIONS: There is strong evidence that circumcision is overwhelmingly painful and traumatic. Behavioral changes in circumcised infants have been observed 6 months after circumcision. The physical and sexual loss resulting from circumcision is gaining recognition, and some men have strong feelings of dissatisfaction about being circumcised.

ORIGINAL RESEARCH—EJACULATION DISORDERS: A Multinational Population Survey of Intravaginal Ejaculation Latency Time31189-9/fulltext)

CONCLUSIONS: The IELT distribution is positively skewed. The overall median value was 5.4 minutes but with differences between countries. For all five countries, median IELT values were independent of condom usage. In countries excluding Turkey, the median IELT values were independent of circumcision status.

Clinical elicitation of the penilo‐cavernosus reflex in circumcised men

CONCLUSIONS: The study confirmed the lower clinical and similar neurophysiological elicitability of the penilo‐cavernosus reflex in circumcised men and in men with foreskin retraction. This finding needs to be taken into account by urologists and other clinicians in daily clinical practice.

mikesteane · 2020-10-05T23:49:32+00:00

I've been taught that circumcision is healthier

You've been taught wrong. In the US infant circumcision is a $400 000 000 a year industry. That's enough to pay for a lot of lies and bogus research.

amosuno · 2020-10-05T23:35:03+00:00

For the same reason girls don't want this procedure:

Clitoridectomy or clitorectomy is the surgical removal, reduction, or partial removal of the clitoris.

Get it now?

queroUmUsername · 2020-10-06T00:36:31+00:00

Because it is an arbitrary decision about a characteristic of his body. What if he becomes an adult who would like to have a foreskin? "You can't, your parents decided for you"

PJP66 · 2020-10-06T00:05:15+00:00

I (male) used to not care. I'm circumcised and suffer no trauma because of it. Every time I see a dog that someone has cropped the ears and or tail, it makes my blood boil. Why would anyone do that to their defenseless dog? Then one day the light bulb came on... Leave the dicks alone!

ThatDamnedRedneck · 2020-10-06T01:06:06+00:00

Same reason women don't like to be circumcised, it greatly reduces sexual pleasure.

tenchineuro · 2020-10-06T01:44:15+00:00

Why Shouldn't Men be Circumcised?

Followup question...

Why Shouldn't Women be Circumcised?

EricAllonde · 2020-10-06T03:38:49+00:00

"I've heard some people say that we shouldn't cut pieces of their bodies off babies, but I'm still unconvinced. I don't see what's so wrong with having the clitoris or the labia removed as long as it's done by a professional."

I don't really know what to tell you.

yegads69 · 2020-10-06T03:23:17+00:00

Women have yeast infections and can get other bacterial infections in their labial folds. Have you ever tried to clean a baby girl's vulva after a messy poop? Circumcise girls. They're probably just as stupid as boys when it comes to caring for their genitals.

*sarcasm

atrasentan · 2020-10-05T23:52:25+00:00

Why do you think men shouldn’t be circumcised after infancy? It’s safer and has better outcomes to do it as an adult.

mgtowconclusion · 2020-10-06T10:12:35+00:00

[i] Mutilating the genitals of babies is never a good thing.
[ii] The baby is not able to consent to the mutilation.
[iii] Circumcision removes thousands of nerve endings which give pleasure to the man.
[iv] The head of the penis, now uncovered, dries out and becomes rough and less sensitive.
[v] The movement of the foreskin inside the woman gives her pleasure; thus, removing the foreskin removes this pleasure from the woman.
[vi] No penis, no opinion.

needletothebar · 2020-10-06T01:30:44+00:00

the same reason women shouldn't be circumcised.

cultures that circumcise little girls also teach that female circumcision is healthier and can protect against some diseases.

can you explain why you think mutilating our genitals as defenseless infants is any better than mutilating our genitals at an older age?

would you be okay with having your clitoris excised as long as it was done by a professional?

the foreskin is the most sensitive part of a man's penis. circumcision was created for the explicit purpose of denying men sexual pleasure. any other excuses are justifications made up after the fact.

intactisnormal · 2020-10-06T19:51:39+00:00

The standard to intervene on someone else's body is medical necessity. The Canadian Paediatrics Society puts it well:

"Neonatal circumcision is a contentious issue in Canada. The procedure often raises ethical and legal considerations, in part because it has lifelong consequences and is performed on a child who cannot give consent. Infants need a substitute decision maker – usually their parents – to act in their best interests. Yet the authority of substitute decision makers is not absolute. In most jurisdictions, authority is limited only to interventions deemed to be medically necessary. In cases in which medical necessity is not established or a proposed treatment is based on personal preference, interventions should be deferred until the individual concerned is able to make their own choices. With newborn circumcision, medical necessity has not been clearly established."

To override someone's body autonomy rights the standard is medical necessity. Without necessity the decision goes to the patient themself, later in life. Circumcision is very far from being medically necessary.

circumcision is healthier and can help protect against some diseases

From the Canadian Paediatrics Society:

“It has been estimated that 111 to 125 normal infant boys (for whom the risk of UTI is 1% to 2%) would need to be circumcised at birth to prevent one UTI.” And UTIs can easily be treated with antibiotics.

"The foreskin can become inflamed or infected (posthitis), often in association with the glans (balanoposthitis) in 1% to 4% of uncircumcised boys." This is not a common issue and can easily be treated if it happens.

"An estimated 0.8% to 1.6% of boys will require circumcision before puberty, most commonly to treat phimosis. The first-line medical treatment of phimosis involves applying a topical steroid twice a day to the foreskin, accompanied by gentle traction. This therapy ... allow[s] the foreskin to become retractable in 80% of treated cases, thus usually avoiding the need for circumcision."

“The number needed to [circumcise] to prevent one HIV infection varied, from 1,231 in white males to 65 in black males, with an average in all males of 298.” And circumcision is not effective prevention, condoms must be used regardless.

“Decreased penile cancer risk: [Number needed to circumcise] = 900 – 322,000” to prevent a single case of penile cancer.

These stats are terrible, it's disingenuous for these to be called legitimate health benefits. And more importantly each item has a normal treatment or prevention that is both more effective and less invasive.

what's so bad about circumsion as long as it's done by a professional.

The likely effect on sexual pleasure.

The foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis.(Full study.)

The role of the glans is as a cushion to protect both people from damage. "In conclusion, the glans penis has a significant functional role, similar to the role that the glove plays for the boxers, restricting the high intracavernosal pressure values developing during coitus. It is anticipated that such function protects both the corpora cavernosa and the female genitalia, preventing corporal trauma during episodes of high external axial loading and vaginal pain in erotic positions where the thresholds for pain tolerance are pronounced."

And the glans had deep pain and deep pressure receptors, which matches the role above: “The glans is innervated mainly by free nerve endings, which primarily sense deep pressure and pain, so it is not surprising that the glans was more sensitive to pain. By contrast, the foreskin has a paucity of free nerve endings and is primarily innervated by fine touch neuroreceptors, so it was comparatively less sensitive to pain."

This is often overlooked as a 'cost' or harm of the surgery. Ethicist Brian Earp discusses the AAP statement “if you assign any value whatsoever to the [foreskin] itself, then its sheer loss should be counted as a harm or a cost to the surgery. ... [Only] if you implicitly assign it a value of zero then it’s seen as having no cost by removing it, except for additional surgical complications.”

This has been long but I also recommend checking out Dr. Guest's presentation (for at least ~15 minutes) as he discusses the innervation of the penis, the mechanical function of the foreskin and its role in lubrication during sex, and the likelihood of decreased sexual pleasure for both male and partner.

iainmf · 2020-10-06T10:15:55+00:00

I don't think guys should be circumcised after infancy (edit: after infancy as in childhood not adulthood when they can make that decision on their own)

What is the difference between an infant, a child, and an adult, that allows you to make that distinction?

z770i1 · 2020-10-06T13:34:03+00:00

Because of lack of consent

rodrigogirao · 2020-10-06T14:03:16+00:00

Every benefit of circumcision you've been told about is 100% bullshit.

were_gonna_make_it · 2020-10-06T16:35:10+00:00

Other people are giving you information, so I won't rehash that, rather I ask you to take a little thought experiment. Ask yourself:

Why shouldn't women be circumcised?

I'm not joking here, I'm asking you to think about this question from a different perspective.

That sounds ridiculous, right? I'm sure you can think of many reasons women should not circumcised. Now turn it back around and realize how equally ridiculous it is from the male perspective.

In fact, let's take it a step further.

You probably think FGM is horrible (as it is). But imagine that it isn't. Imagine instead that female circumcision is basically the same thing as male circumcision, and all the benefits and low risk that you think is true of male circumcision also apply to the female version.

Now, why shouldn't women be circumcised?

If you can still of reasons why not, well, then you have your answer.

Here, I'll start off with one:

What if they don't want to be?

EvilLothar · 2020-10-06T13:21:18+00:00

You make a great point and the fact that you are asking the question is praise worthy.

Keep on asking questions and don't believe the feminists and their narrative.

Tobygaby · 2020-10-24T04:34:50+00:00

there you have your answers

CircumcisionGrief / comments / gwaaw9 / information_to_spread /

put that in "google", remove the spaces

d_nijmegen · 2020-10-06T02:46:04+00:00

Why isn't the answer completely obvious to you?

AprylsBerry · 2020-10-06T02:55:20+00:00

Wife and I approved the procedure for both cleaning/cleanliness and appearance on our boys- not even a questionable act. No religion involved.

Title	Why Shouldn't Men be Circumcised?
Author	TheresASneckNMyBoot
Upvotes	0
Comments	58
Date	October 5, 2020 11:14 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/j5u4uc/why_shouldnt_men_be_circumcised/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-shouldnt-men-be-circumcised.842833 https://theredarchive.com/post/842833

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