International Conference on Men's Issues 2019

It's quite surreal that under the same post, I'm being taken to task because the MRM is both too far left and too far right. So basically, what you're saying is, because all three had doubts about Trump before he was elected, they're serving the hard left?

No, Karen, that's not quite what I'm saying (and certainly not criticising you personally).

I'm saying extraneous ideologies - such as liberalism/conservativism - have held MR back. For decades, MR has been too fractious and fissiparous, too inclined to personal agendas and personal ideologies (including liberalism, conservativism, and libertarianism), with too little solidarity and too little commonality of purpose.

I'm saying:

MR has had few outright victories except for Take-Our-Daughters changed to Take-Our-Children.
Valid, worthwhile MR organisations have collapsed over internecine disputes, personal agendas, and personal ideologies.
Feminism (and organisations such as the N.O.W.) succeeded by subordinating such differences to solidarity.
Many MRA's continue to push their liberal or conservative agenda. But that's a big mistake.

This is not an endorsement of either liberalism or conservativism; liberalism has been rabidly feminist, while "tradcon" values have not been entirely fair to men, either (though much less rabidly misandrist). That's why I've asserted before that, to succeed, MR must be like European third parties, making only temporary political alliances of convenience in order to have its issues supported.

And society will decide on its liberal or conservative path independent of our wishes. All we can do is highlight the misandry in either philosophy and push society to be fairer to men, whichever path it chooses.

The MoJo article was a shock, with all 3 of our celebrities working aginst MR interests! In that article, Farrell, Esmay, and Elam were either liberal or inept. All three of our celebrities:

showed startlingly little media savvy for the experienced activists they are;
allowed themselves to be used by MoJo's hard-left, pro-feminist agenda (which is why I assumed them leftist);
allowed themselves to be designated MR "leaders" in the article but failed to differentiate between their own, personal opinions and any formal MR stance on the candidates;
in a clear choice between an ambitious, staunch feminist (Hillary) and a non-feminist (Trump), failed to make the obvious choice of benefit to MR (Trump), and even gave reasons against that choice;
helped the leftist MoJo engage in character assassination of the non-feminist candidate;
seemed to indicate they thought the feminist should be elected and might even vote for her themselves;
wrongly seemed to predict little benefit to MR from Trump.

About this last point:

Every decade, like polio charities continuing after polio vanquished, feminism has not disappeared but has invented ever-more-aggressive ways to harm men: recovered memory syndrome, the child-molestation hysteria, regretted sex as assault, affirmative consent, etc. Hillary would have greatly accelerated this trend.
As we've all noted, Trump has slowed it; has rescinded the Dear Colleague letter; has recently removed emotional abuse from the administration's formal DV definition; has made feminists look like pink-pu#sy-hat-wearing fools; and has split working-class women from their professional-class sisters, by making working-class women realise their interests lie with their working-class, male husbands, not with their feminist "sisters". Trump's benefit to MR was predictable even if he's not an MRA.
Unsavoury style or not, and deliberately or not, Trump has brought out the craziness of the feminist left, making them look ridiculous.

So basically, what you're saying is, because all three had doubts about Trump before he was elected, they're serving the hard left?

Trump was obviously much less male-hostile than Hillary. So, when speaking as leaders of MR, all three should have kept their doubts to themselves (or to private speech).
Yes, they unwittingly served the hard left (Hillary).

For MR to become a political force, it should perhaps have out-rightly endorsed Trump - making clear the endorsement for his pro-male policies only (such as Trump's opposition to uni PC), for the sole election only, and only so long as the policies remained pro-male. Or perhaps MR should, in analogy to the ACU and ACLU, publish a rating of candidates' explicit or implicit numerical score on men's issues.

I have no particular love for conservatives nor for the uncouth Trump. But our MR leadership is inept if it could not see MR interests in the last election clearly lay with the brassy, non-feminist candidate. And an MRA voting for a feminist such as Hillary is pure, dogmatic foolishness.

Notice that almost all the pro-male women in my admiring list here are conservative or libertarian. Only the late Karen DeCrow (whom I should have included) was a pro-male leftist.

While I respect the accomplishments of Elam, Esmay, and Farrell, I remain disappointed:

Esmay changes opinions like shirts. And, if your comments are correct, he has gone full flake.
Farrell contributed money and vote to the rabid feminist!
Elam, when shown a conservative, non-feminist Trump, foolishly gave a hard-left magazine ammunition to try to defeat him. There are no perfect MR candidates, as there are no perfect MR plaintiffs, respondents, or defendants. Yet Elam just had to attack the non-feminist Trump over the wall. In the first place, dozens of countries have effective border barriers, so Elam is wrong on the facts. In the second place, the wall is irrelevant to MR's more immediate interest in seeing the non-feminist candidate defeat the feminist candidate.

FWIW, Karen, I think you would not have fallen into the same MoJo trap as Esmay, Elam, and Farrell. And, had you a US vote, would you ever have seriously considered voting for Hilarious? I doubt it. You've always seemed to have too much common sense for Esmay-like or Farrell-like political dogmatism. (Their dogma runs over my karma.)

[–]DJ-Roukan 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Mens-Advocate 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/05/mens-rights-movement-donald-trump-presidency/

In the MoJo article, Elam behaved exactly like a leftist:

He gave ammunition to a progressive publication.
He helped MoJo push the feminist Hillary.
He attacked Trump's wall - certainly a leftist position.
He betrayed MR by participating in an article whose intent was to help the feminist candidate (Hillary) defeat the non-feminist candidate (Trump).

Stupid is as stupid does. And, in Elam's case, liberal is as liberal does. Hillary would have been a disaster for MR, yet Elam's MoJo interview gave her help attacking Trump. Elam's either liberal or grotesquely naive; he helped the feminist.

I see so often that people frame the discussion on the MRM to fit their personal narrative

That's exactly my point. In the MoJo interview, Elam, Esmay, and Farrell should have said simply, "Hillary will hurt men far more than will Trump." Finis.

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In fact, you can go fuck yourself. I've put in hundreds of hours helping to organize this conference for NO pay.

I've neglected my channel and the monetary benefits of uploading content for months in order to help organize this shit while getting up at 4 AM so I can be "fresh" and coherent for morning drive time in Pennsylvania or Florida, all of it just me giving my time for free to an audience of virgin bums on virgin seats wanting to know about men's issues.

I still get called a "money badger" in comment sections all over the internet, despite my last monthly Google Adsense check being less than $300, me deleting my Patreon account and me shilling my Subsribestar account exactly ONCE since that happened.

You EXPECT things of me? You EXPECT things of the people who are putting this shit together as volunteers, all while financially underwriting the entire thing?

You can lick my sweaty butt crack, sir. You can lick it and then thank me for the dingleberries. Because my dingleberries are more than you've managed to contribute this entire time.

You want a conference that serves your demands? Organize one. Underwrite it. Get to fucking work, asshole.

[–]DJ-Roukan 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Mens-Advocate 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't be foolish:

A Men's Conference is an accomplishment regardless of the details, which can always be improved year-to-year.
To date, tradcons have been far more helpful in the fight against feminism, than any other identifiable group excepting MR itself.
I do hope the tradcons understand MR wants and needs to include both right and left (without subordinating MR to either).
Elsewhere in this thread, I've lamented MR being subordinated to extraneous ideology by Esmay, Elam, and Farrell in a Mother Jones interview. However, organising conferences and publishing books and sites takes a tremendous amount of work. These three, and Karen and other organisers, deserve considerable credit for every conference which takes place and stays on point (MR) despite the nasty attempts of feminist society to suppress the conference.
Conferences are invaluable not only for publicity and planning but also for co-ordination and momentum and morale among disparate attendees.

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Title	International Conference on Men's Issues 2019
Author	goodmod
Upvotes	147
Comments	61
Date	March 25, 2019 8:51 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/b5g80f/international_conference_on_mens_issues_2019/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/international-conference-on-mens-issues-2019.881030 https://theredarchive.com/post/881030

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