Can someone explain something about Jordan Peterson to me?

theothermod · 2018-03-05T11:17:27+00:00

I heard him being called transphobic. What about his stances lead to such an accusation?

Probably the event that first led to his appearance on the public stage. He declared that he would not let anyone dictate to him what pronouns he must use.

This led to accusations of transphobia, on the grounds that refusing to use a trans person's preferred pronoun was oppressive.

On a slightly different note - I don't like terms such as transphobic and homophobic. They're propaganda words that carry the implication that anyone who doesn't approve of a particular sexual identity is irrationally afraid of it, which is not necessarily true. But we're probably stuck with them.

We could always retaliate with our own word: Androphobia, the irrational fear of men.

EricAllonde · 2018-03-05T11:23:35+00:00

I think this is the first and most important thing to know about Jordan Peterson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ER1LOarlgg

That is to say I want to at least understand what the left criticizes about him and where that criticism comes from.

Anyone who stands up for men & boys is inevitably going to be attacked by the Left. The suggestion that men are are not evil, that men are in fact worthwhile human beings, is a radical suggestion which is incredibly threatening to Leftist ideology and world view.

I heard him being called transphobic. What about his stances lead to such an accusation?

He criticised a proposed new Canadian law (which has since been passed) called C16, on that basis that it would make not using whatever wacky novelty pronoun someone demands a breach of human rights, punishable by fines of up to $250,000.

His key point, which Leftists always lie about, is NOT that he objects to using people's preferred pronouns and says he has never refused such a request in person. He objects to being legally forced to do so. He says that we have many instances of prohibited speech in our society, e.g. you can't defame someone, you can't reveal military secrets, etc. However this is the first case of compelled speech, i.e. you are legally required to say a certain thing by law. Peterson's study of authoritarian regimes, including the Soviet Union under Communism, leads him to conclude that compelled speech is a key tool used by totalitarians to control their population, and he thinks it's a very bad thing for Canada to start down that path.

jacksleepshere · 2018-03-05T12:19:18+00:00

But what's wrong with acknowledging that men and women are different? He's not suggesting that people should conform to gender stereotypes, just that there's nothing wrong with women and men making different life choices in general.

thrway_1000 · 2018-03-05T12:01:41+00:00

From what I know of him he does seem to advocate for more traditional male values. Which is one reason I don't really follow him. Seems like it goes against the who equal treatment that most around here want. To me traditionalism and feminism are kind of flip sides of the same coin. Both are about "protecting" women and could seem to care less about actual equality.

shit-zen-giggles · 2018-03-05T12:42:22+00:00

Regarding transphobia:

Here he has a more than an hour long discussion on stage with Theryn Mayer, a trans-woman: Dr. Jordan Peterson - The Devouring Mother Doesn't look phobic to me.

In fact that label was stuck onto him by trans activists, because he made a statement announcing that he would not follow a law (called Bill C-16) that would make it a crime to not use a persons preferred pronouns. He gave testimony to Canadian senate before the law as adopted together with Gad Saad another Canadian Psychology professor. The hearing can be found on youtube as well.

Regarding his position on men's roles.

He is big on accepting your suffering as part of the chaotic nature of the world and through that acceptance gain the conviction that one can carry that suffering and take on the responsibility to improve gradually to reduce the suffering in order to benefit both yourself and the people arround you (and implicitly the people around them and so on).

He specifically adresses young men, because they need it the most. He has previously worked with female clients to solve the problem of integrating a high powered career and having a family.

GunOfSod · 2018-03-05T17:57:31+00:00

Isn't it absolutely obvious that he is advocating for taking individual responsibility for your own life? I'm not sure how you missed That?

Njall · 2018-03-05T17:21:41+00:00

Aside from his comments and thoughts and work on issues facing males, boys and men; I have heard him eloquently say that he is absolutely for equality between the sexes. His point, which some hate and I find refreshing, is he is in favor of equality of opportunity and is opposed to equality of outcome.

Equality of opportunity, for example, says that women should be allowed to become soldiers and firemen. I agree with this. Equality of outcome says that the standards are lowered, sometimes only for women, so that more women can become soldiers and firemen. That, specifically in areas like these two, is absolutely both unfair and unacceptable to me.

Imagine if you would an Olympic foot race. The fastest woman in an Olympic race, as I understand it, is slower than most or all of the men running the same Olympic race. Equality of opportunity says it is OK for a woman to race against men. I have no issue with that. If a woman has a chance of winning she must be allowed to race. However, equality of outcome says, the race the women would run must be shorter than the men's so that a woman has an opportunity to get to get to the finish line first. That isn't equality, it is favoritism at the least and outright discrimination based on gender at the worst. For what it's worth there are similar comparisons where women come out ahead of men so this point against equality of opportunity isn't gender specific. Equality of opportunity is something any intelligent person must be for. Equality of outcome is not.

When I first heard about and listened to Jordan Peterson I was put off. Mostly because he appeared to be denigrating progressives (me) and liberals (sometimes progressive). However, when I listened to another discussion of his I was taken with his thinking and eloquence.

edit: grammammer

xNOM · 2018-03-05T22:32:02+00:00

He’s obviously become rather prolific and I see more and more of him, yet despite having listened to him I’m still unsure what to make of him.

Jesus. Don't be an emo snowflake. Stop demanding to put people into categories. Identity politics is for 12-year-olds. An argument's validity or invalidity does not depend on whose mouth it comes out of. Are you that incapable of critical thought?

Title	Can someone explain something about Jordan Peterson to me?
Author	EmberFQ
Upvotes	6
Comments	27
Date	March 5, 2018 11:10 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8257va/can_someone_explain_something_about_jordan/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/can-someone-explain-something-about-jordan.904972 https://theredarchive.com/post/904972

Comments

Regarding transphobia:

Regarding his position on men's roles.