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UK: Our swimming pond is NOT gender fluid: Fury of Hampstead Heath ladies after men identifying as women are allowed into their famous bathing lake. Women transitioning to men use the male swimming lake already.

furchfur

December 31, 2017
78 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5223641/Hampstead-ladies-say-swimming-pond-not-gender-fluid.html
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Title UK: Our swimming pond is NOT gender fluid: Fury of Hampstead Heath ladies after men identifying as women are allowed into their famous bathing lake. Women transitioning to men use the male swimming lake already.
Author

furchfur

Upvotes 78
Comments 58
Date December 31, 2017 10:53 AM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7n7xyj/uk_our_swimming_pond_is_not_gender_fluid_fury_of/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/uk-our-swimming-pond-is-not-gender-fluid-fury-of.908513
https://theredarchive.com/post/908513
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Comments

[–]perplexedm 33 points34 points35 points 8 years ago* (34 children) | Copy Link

Further controversy was caused when a woman who is transitioning to be a man called for the pond to be made ‘gender fluid’, Ms Roberts said.

Spilled my coffee laughing and reading this ridiculously hilarious news. Is this real world?

Enjoy the world you created for yourselves, womyn.

[+]ee4m -20 points-19 points-18 points 8 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

This stuff came from capitalist foundations and the cia.

It was created and promoted by western men.

[–]fuckin_bubbles 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

do you get paid to peddle this trash?

[+]ee4m -8 points-7 points-6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No I and others have done lots of research on it and gathered the evidence.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7mqvh5/how_the_ford_foundation_created_womens_studies/

[–]Feared77 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

What the fuck? I feel like you’re the kind of person to say ‘source: me’ when asked where you get your crazy ass attention-grabbing crackpot theories

[–]ee4m -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Its not a theory when there is evidence.

The left wing was the mens movement. Who wins if its replaced by rich girls shouting down the mens movement.

[–]fuckin_bubbles 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

your definition of theory seems flawed.

[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A conspiracy theory has no evidence.

A conspiracy with evidence of said conspiracy is not tin foil hattery.

[–]perplexedm 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

It was created out of necessity and abused for control of others.

[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

Necessity for what?

Making sure mens labour unions were destroyed and massive redistribution of wealth from average men to the already rich?

I dont think that was necessary.

Men were doing just fine when we were further to the left.

[–]Yndrd1984 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

No I and others have done lots of research on it and gathered the evidence.

Evidence that the CIA was promoting transgender rights in the 50's???

Its not a theory when there is evidence.

There's evidence that supports the theory of evolution, so ... ?

The left wing was the mens movement. Who wins if its replaced by rich girls shouting down the mens movement.

That already happened. The 'left wing' (if we have to put it that way) did have pro-men's-rights feminists up until the 70s, but then they (e.g. Warren Farrell) were expelled for not limiting their activism to (upper-middle-class white) women's issues.

There's no point in calling the MRM 'left wing' if nearly everyone in the 'left wing' doesn't support it and treats it with disdain. And no, that doesn't automatically make it 'right wing' (or anything else), either.

Men were doing just fine when we were further to the left.

Ok, forget everything else. Just please tell me exactly when and where this was.

[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

Evidence that the CIA was promoting transgender rights in the 50's???

Nobody said that. Transgender rights came later, as part of the postmodern / feminist movement the cia and capitalist foundations created.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7mqvh5/how_the_ford_foundation_created_womens_studies/

That already happened. The 'left wing' (if we have to put it that way) did have pro-men's-rights feminists up until the 70s, but then they (e.g. Warren Farrell) were expelled for not limiting their activism to (upper-middle-class white) women's issues.

Yes we know, the feminist movement insisted it stopped being left, and concentrated on upper class women.

There's no point in calling the MRM 'left wing' if nearly everyone in the 'left wing' doesn't support it and treats it with disdain. And no, that doesn't automatically make it 'right wing' (or anything else), either.

The mrm wouldn't have that problem were it not for the right wing appropriation of it.

Ok, forget everything else. Just please tell me exactly when and where this was.

The drift the right in our economies started in the late 1970s / early 1980s.

[–]Yndrd1984 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Nobody said that. Transgender rights came later, as part of the postmodern / feminist movement the cia and capitalist foundations created.

Ok, so all of this 21st century stuff is at most just an unintended, distant consequence of CIA meddling. You aren't suggesting any large-scale current influence?

Yes we know, the feminist movement insisted it stopped being left, and concentrated on upper class women.

So if they'd kicked out the MRM but kept doing stuff for poor women, that would have kept it left wing? (And in your eye, therefore 'good'?)

The mrm wouldn't have that problem were it not for the right wing appropriation of it.

So the left loves feminism because it's right wing and hates the MRM because it's becoming right wing?

The drift the right in our economies started in the late 1970s / early 1980s.

So the tender years doctrine, massive military drafts, and American 'medicalization' of circumcision occurred when 'men were just doing fine'?

Its not a theory when there is evidence.

There's evidence that supports the theory of evolution, so ... ?

[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

Ok, so all of this 21st century stuff is at most just an unintended, distant consequence of CIA meddling. You aren't suggesting any large-scale current influence?

The powers that be still use the new left to distract people. Thats how say, Obama can be as right wing as the people he runs against, but still come out looking progressive and left wing, how clinton can be a corporate warmonger and appear left because she talks about the ficticious wage gap.

So if they'd kicked out the MRM but kept doing stuff for poor women, that would have kept it left wing? (And in your eye, therefore 'good'?)

No, that would still marginalize the mens movement.

So the left loves feminism because it's right wing and hates the MRM because it's becoming right wing?

Postmoderist "left"which is really the right.

All the stereotypes that are used to slander and keep the mens movement down that the neo-illiberals use are confirmed in reality by the right of the mens movement, which has recently jumped the shark altogether by getting behind crypto / proto fascism.

All this is by design in my opinion. Men used to be organized to vote in their best interests.

So the tender years doctrine, massive military drafts, and American 'medicalization' of circumcision occurred when 'men were just doing fine'?

Tender years doctrine - that was introduced when women got nothing at all in divorce - a far worse situation than what men are in today.

Draft - the left used to have a strong anti war movement, but the right changed that with the postmoderist feminist movement, the topic is now transgender and women in the military.

American 'medicalization' of circumcision occurred when 'men were just doing fine'?

This is profit seeking medical industry in the US. Socialized healthcare would stop this sort of mutilation for profit.

[–]Yndrd1984 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

The powers that be still use the new left to distract people.

The 'powers that be' use everything to distract people, and make deals with anyone. The only difference is that I don't think that those 'powers' are right or left wing (because they just want power), nor do I think that movements 'switch sides' when they corrupt them.

So if they'd kicked out the MRM but kept doing stuff for poor women, that would have kept it left wing?

No, that would still marginalize the mens movement.

So even with no other policy changes whatsoever, marginalizing the MRM turns a left-wing movement into a right-wing one? That's absurd!

Just please tell me exactly when and where this was.

The drift the right in our economies started in the late 1970s / early 1980s.

So the tender years doctrine, massive military drafts, and American 'medicalization' of circumcision occurred when 'men were just doing fine'?

I just want to point out that you made three separate replies to this question, none of which actually attempted to explain how 'men were just doing fine', and all of which were simply attempts to make the left look good:

Tender years doctrine - that was introduced when women got nothing at all in divorce

You've gone full feminist - women have been 'getting something' in divorce since at least 1754 BC. Seriously, name post-tribal culture anywhere that has women as a general rule got nothing at all when her husband leaves her.

P.S. - The tender years doctrine changed the legal system from "divorcing fathers have custody and responsibility" to "divorcing mothers have custody and divorcing fathers have responsibility" - that (legally speaking) has nothing to do with alimony.

Draft - the left used to have a strong anti war movement

Yes, for a brief period there was almost some support for men in a very limited context. You notice that it didn't actually work - so were 'men were just doing fine'?

Socialized healthcare would stop this sort of mutilation for profit.

Which countries have banned it? A reduction in rates is a good thing, but I want men to have rights, not just better chances. At best you're suggesting that socialized healthcare would make the easiest potential precursor step somewhat easier.

Its not a theory when there is evidence.

There's evidence that supports the theory of evolution, so ... ?

[–]ee4m -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

The 'powers that be' use everything to distract people, and make deals with anyone. The only difference is that I don't think that those 'powers' are right or left wing (because they just want power), nor do I think that movements 'switch sides' when they corrupt them.

They all went right in the 1980s, the parties that used to be left embraced neoliberalism and took up idpol instead of left wing economics and workers rights. Thats why clinton and obama can be as far right as their opponents and still have the illusion of being "left".

I just want to point out that you made three separate replies to this question, none of which actually attempted to explain how 'men were just doing fine', and all of which were simply attempts to make the left look good:

After the free market days with the whole family working 14/7 to survive and the great depression there was the one job one family system, economic stability, growth and social mobility due to progressive legislation, this period up until the 1980s was the best time for men. I shouldn't have said fine, obviously there are always problems. The US sent a lot of men off to die needlessly during that time. Since the 1980s we have been drifting right, and now latin america style free market fascism is on the horizon, with america leading the way.

You've gone full feminist - women have been 'getting something' in divorce since at least 1754 BC. Seriously, name post-tribal culture anywhere that has women as a general rule got nothing at all when her husband leaves her.

Dont know why you are taking about a law thats not on the books any more, and the court bias is about money. Top 20% of men can absorb and divorce and afford the legal bills to take on the wife. Most men don't have the deep pockets to take on a woman with fee legal ald.

The reason that caroline norton got the tender years doctrine put in place was because she got nothing in the divorce and the husband continued to collect the royalties from her book. Before that the father got custody.

Norton, who had undergone a divorce and been deprived of her children, worked with politicians and eventually was able to convince the British Parliament to enact legislation to protect mothers' rights, with the Custody of Infants Act 1839, which gave some discretion to the judge in a child custody case and established a presumption of maternal custody for children under the age of seven years maintaining the responsibility from financial support to their husbands.[1] In 1873 the Parliament extended the presumption of maternal custody until a child reached sixteen.[2] The doctrine spread in many states of the world because of the British Empire. By the end of the 20th century, the doctrine was abolished in most of the United States and Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_years_doctrine


Yes, for a brief period there was almost some support for men in a very limited context. You notice that it didn't actually work - so were 'men were just doing fine'?

The right fought the the anti war movement, and eventually they swapped it for illiberal idpol, which killed the left and all traditional left wing activity, anti war, workers rights, civil rights etc was replaced with rich girls "problems".

"The Women's Liberation Movement may be considered as subversive to the New Left and revolutionary movements as they have proven to be a divisive and factionalizing factor.... It could be well recommended as a counterintelligence movement to weaken the revolutionary movement." This was from an August, 1969 report by the head of the San Francisco FBI office.[4] Within several years, the Rockefeller and Ford Foundations were pumping millions into women's studies programs on campus.

Now google is blacklisting all the left wing, progressive and anti war media.

Which countries have banned it? A reduction in rates is a good thing, but I want men to have rights, not just better chances. At best you're suggesting that socialized healthcare would make the easiest potential precursor step somewhat easier.

Its very uncommon in european countries, Idk which have banned it.

[–]GrumpyDingo 24 points25 points26 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

So, let me get this right: a public space is being used for women only?!? Hows this even legal???

[–]furchfur[S] 22 points23 points24 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

It is Hampstead Heath, a public park. They have a mixed gender swimming pond, male pond and a female pond. The male pond is very overlooked. The female pond is extremely private and is the best pond.

[–]Macismyname 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

So they are separate but "equal"?

[–]furchfur[S] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

In UK law you are not allowed to discriminate in the provision of a service based on gender. But if separate swimming is offered to both genders then there is no discrimination.

[–]thrway_1000 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Actually, they allow women-only hours but they have no reciprocal for men at some public swimming facilities in London. There were many articles posted about it here.

[–]furchfur[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If men ask for it they have to provide it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2311098/Peter-Lloyd-Why-Im-suing-gym-sexist-women-hours.html

[–]perplexedm 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That public pond seems to have encumbered in multiple legal issues for years, this just looks like a regular diversion tactics by some.

From news articles, it seems they had men's only, women's only and mixed areas. Not sure now.

[–]perplexedm 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What do you think about this old news clip on the same public facility: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/dec/10/gender.london

[–]mikesteane 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

and the women's pond is the most secluded and beautiful of them all.

There you have it.

[–]mooshy15 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And yet I STILL saw women complain because the mens pond has a diving board whereas the women's doesnt

[–]mooshy15 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean by overlooked

[–]co053 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

" Julie Bindel, a feminist writer who has also been swimming at the pond for more than three decades, added: ‘It is totally unacceptable to allow men who identify as women, but who are otherwise male bodied and socialised as men, to be in a women-only space. I have seen mothers bring their young daughters who are self-conscious about their bodies but want to feel good about swimming and exposing their skin to the sun. The last thing they want is to look behind them and see a male-bodied person pretending to be a woman in order to gawp at them.’ "

Is it just me or is she trying to imply that this male bodied person is some sort of paedofile?

[–]Incident-Pit 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's Julie Bindel, of course that's what she is saying.

[–]perplexedm 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bindel, by your own logic, all humans are equal, your young daughters don't have special snowflake skin which needs to be eposed to sun. Other people also have same kind of skin.

If male bodied person gawk at them, nothing more will happen than gawking.

If they attacked or troubled your snowfalkes physically, complaint to police with clear proof.

World deserves equality you know... /s

Suffer the world you created for yourself now...

[–]Mon_arch 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well obviously the only reason a man would want to be a woman is to sneak in and look at boobs. Especially your child’s /friends / aquaintance /etc. /s

This is the same argument bigots use to fight allowing transgendered individuals into traditional spaces in America.

Classic scare tactic to paint these people trying to be accepted and find who they are as bad people . As the “enemy “.

[–]YetAnotherCommenter 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the same argument bigots use to fight allowing transgendered individuals into traditional spaces in America.

Pretty much. The "transwomen are really pervert men out to rape women" thing isn't so much transmisogyny... its misandry. The logic is based on "transwomen are men" and "all men are rape-beasts."

Just like the vast majority of homophobia is directed at male homosexuality in particular (thus making it mostly homomisandry), the majority of transphobia is based on seeing transwomen as men and is thus really just misandry.

[–]Lethn 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't even know that something like this existed, they've gone and fucking written down gender discrimination on a sign, fucking hell. This is an absolute classic stereotype too and something I really despise, rich women whinging about not being able to have their picturesque private swimming pond all to themselves.

Could this be anymore retarded? Also, I have to say, as others have been pointing out in the daily mail this is what feminists always wanted and being somebody whose hobby was targeted by these fucking losers I think it's hilarious. Maybe if they hadn't done everything in their power to shut down groups with lots of men in they wouldn't have ridiculous situations like this, fuckers, stay away from the games industry next time, I really don't have sympathy.

It isn't really about 'women' having their safe spaces though is it? Because if they were women who didn't fall in line with feminism and left wing thought they'd probably be booted out. This is feminists taking over and utilising private/public property for their own ends and harassing anybody who tries to interfere with that.

[–]Imnotmrabut 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So yet again we see that the most anti-gender equality and transphobic are the self-identified lady feminists.

[–]jeff_the_nurse 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It seems as though feminists are beginning to see female privilege...hmm...

[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But.. there's genders, and the pond is a fluid... am I missing something?

[–]bhavv 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I already identify as a woman for the enhanced privileges it brings me, such as this.

[–]RedPill_Swinger 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The UGay is perhaps the most fucked up country in the world nowadays.

I really feel for my British bros and am very thankful for that country gave me a lot. It is really hard to live there if you're a man and certainly the brexit made things worse if you wanna flee the hysteria.

BTW it's just a matter of time before feminists and transgender will call out men who "identify" as women and you can start the clock to when people will realise that the entire gender fluidity thing is BS and we'll go back to normalcy. Great news!

[–]Blarty97 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago* (26 children) | Copy Link

The source is The Daily Mail. In my experience an unreliable sensationalist discriminatory rag. I would love to see a story about this from a more reliable source.

Edit: Down-voted by someone who views The Daily Mail as intellectually stimulating and a bastion of truth and accurate reporting.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I would love to see a story about this from a more reliable source.

Like The Guardian I suppose? 🙄

[–]perplexedm 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

http://www.cetusnews.com/news/Hampstead-Heath-ladies-say-swimming-pond-is-not-gender-fluid%C2%A0.HkxFHsB7z.html

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/londoners-diary-swimmers-on-heath-dip-toe-in-gender-politics-a3695846.html

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5240252/fury-as-men-who-identify-as-women-allowed-to-take-a-dip-in-ladies-only-hampstead-heath-lake/

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/row-erupts-after-hampstead-heath-womens-pool-allows-transgender-bathers-a3729056.html

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/898398/hampstead-heath-pond-transgender-london

[–]Blarty97 -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

more reliable source

[–]perplexedm 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

Are all the links above dailymail ? What do you want moaar ?

[–]Imnotmrabut 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No, they don't want moaar, just to moaaaaaan.

[+]ee4m -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago* (17 children) | Copy Link

There are all right wing junk media though.

They have a history of distracting people with pedo-hysteria, scapegoating immigrants, sport and outrage instead of reporting actual news.

The big mens rights news at the moment is this.

Trump cons the working man with tax bill.

GOP removes workplace safety regulations in death jobs.

Trump stops men taking class action suit against companies that expose them to injury.

Senator Warren pushes Navy to stop using dangerous contractors.

None of this stuff gets a look in here, because right wingers are posing outrage bait from shitty news sources.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Ooooooohhhh.... if only Killary had got the job — then we’d all be in feminist heaven LOL. At least we’ve finally got a MAN in the Whitehouse and not a girl like Obummer.

[–]ee4m -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Not sure if you are mocking right wingers who think crypto right wingers Killary and Obama are communists and prefer Trump, who is even worse than for mens rights, or are mocking me.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

... take a wild guess 🤔

[–]ee4m -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Alright, the former.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Alright, the former.

Now you're mocking yourself — you don't need me anymore LOL!

[–]Atheist101 -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Hes a /r/the_donald poster

[–]JustHereForTheBacon 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You could take issue with specific inaccuracies. The fact that you don't like the source doesn't make it wrong by default.

[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, they think fox "news" is news is real news too.

They are all for free speech until some criticizes them, then its hide with the down vote button and run away.

[–]bigbronze 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This article is ironically hilarious. But it seems like some of the other commenters didn’t pick up the fact that even though this is a public space, there is a male-only Space also along with mixed space. If funny to me that I haven’t seen or heard of any issues with the female-to-male people using the men’s only space or the mixed space. Just the female space thinking that apparently the only reason why a person who isn’t naturally born a woman would want to go to a female only space is to “gawp” at them.

[–]autotldr 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 72%. (I'm a bot)


Regular users of the tranquil fresh water pond - used by famous names such as actress Helena Bonham Carter, comedian Rhona Cameron and novelist Esther Freud - have complained in recent months that men who identify as women and wore female bathing clothes were using the pond.

Julie Bindel, a feminist writer who has also been swimming at the pond for more than three decades, added: 'It is totally unacceptable to allow men who identify as women, but who are otherwise male bodied and socialised as men, to be in a women-only space.

The City of London Corporation spokesman said: 'Over the last year all lifeguards and managers at Hampstead Heath ponds have taken transgender awareness training courses, which have been offered to, and taken by, the ponds' swimming associations as well.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Pond#1 men#2 women#3 swim#4 transitioning#5

[–]ZimbaZumba 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They created this Brave New World, now live in it. Stop complaining.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminism is endlessly tolerant until it asks anything of them

[–]dissociatransman 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

ah yes. nothing like a bit of biggoted transphobia.

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