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/r/television believes women are more suicidal than men, downvotes me to oblivion.

Swede_Sprout

December 20, 2017
46 upvotes
/r/MensRights
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Post Information
Title /r/television believes women are more suicidal than men, downvotes me to oblivion.
Author

Swede_Sprout

Upvotes 46
Comments 71
Date December 20, 2017 6:04 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7l34gc/rtelevision_believes_women_are_more_suicidal_than/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/rtelevision-believes-women-are-more-suicidal-than.909009
https://theredarchive.com/post/909009
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Comments

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points45 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I hate this "women attempt suicide more often" nonsense because for that to be a valid rebuttal it demands the belief that women's feelings are more important than men's lives.

[–]Metraxis 19 points20 points21 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The response to this is to point out that the statistic in question is not "suicide attempts", it is "deliberate self-harm" which includes hospitalizations associated with cutting and eating disorders.

[–]8880886 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ahhh interesting

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That is very good to know.

[–]orphancrippla 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

it demands the belief that women's feelings are more important than men's lives

Um? If you don't agree with that then youre, like, a total misogynist.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women getting a paper cut is more important than a man dying in the eyes of gynocentrists.

[–]etshomephone 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Do they want it to sound like they’re better for having successfully committed suicide more than men? If women really desperately want the title of “Gender that commits suicide more” then they should probably choose a method that will actually end their life. They obviously don’t want to die if they’re not using harsher methods. No offense. Just reality.

They shouldn’t be arguing over something as serious as this when factually men are more susceptible to suicidal tendencies.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Either they're acting out for attention more often than seriously attempting suicide, or they're just far more incompetent.

Feminists can choose whichever of those interpretations they want lol.

[+]NoFuryLikeKristine1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

If your identity is built around the idea that women suffer the most in all levels of society, you bet your ass you're going to be the most helpless victim of harm inflicted by oneself!

[–]etshomephone 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Can you rephrase, a lil confused

[+]NoFuryLikeKristine1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

When people identify strongly as a feminist that means that their identity relies on the belief that women suffer the most in society. Threatening this idea that women suffer more than men is a threat to their world, beliefs, cause, and identity itself. So that's why it's apparently more important to win arguments about who suffers the most in society than it is to really solve it, let alone helping men at all. One of the many reasons why feminism is cancer.

[–]etshomephone 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ahh so you think the person fighting OP in the screenshot is a feminist? I can def see that!

[+]NoFuryLikeKristine1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm assuming so, since that person's logic is just like many other feminists. I study them all the time so I recognize them immediately haha. I think that men and women who didn't feel strongly about gender equality would just be like, "wow that's sad", instead of trying to downplay men's suffering like that (and downvoting OP so heavily), at least I hope so...

[–]etshomephone 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I tend to realize as well that feminists always link their version of evidence from some sort of “relevant” study although, half the time it has nothing to do with what the thread is about.. just little things I can’t stand. And yes they definitely downvoted OP instead of being civil about it because they can’t see the truth, very sad

[–]PapaLoMein 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you commit suicide, you can't attempt anymore and push up the stat. But let's be honest, if the stats were reversed then all people would care about would be commit rates instead of attempt rates.

[–]cankle_h8r 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They don't attempt suicide more. They attempt to be a victim of their own actions more.

[–]orphancrippla 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Remember, feelz before realz.

[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Ironic, because that's not the real way to spell those words.

Let's leave childishness to the SJWs. It's one of the few things they do well.

[–]orphancrippla 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes, the mispelling was intentional, as it's meant to highlight the childishness of placing ones personal feelings on a topic before the actual serious consequences that someone (usually a man) suffers.

[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It seems to me that acting childish doesn't make anyone else look bad. shrug

[–]orphancrippla 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Guess you're not a fan of mockery or satire in that case.

[–]Blutarg -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That isn't mockery. Mockery makes someone else look bad. Acting stupidly makes the actor look bad.

[–]GreyTortoise 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think most people were just upset that the conversation was being had in a post announcing a suicide while others were probably just mentioning sympathies and fond memories.

Still, the statistics don't lie. It's disgusting how "feminists" fight so hard to be seen as victims in every facet.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I did not start it. Mine was a response to something within the topic.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And yet 8/10 suicides are men, globally.

[–]ClickableLinkBot 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

r/television


For mobile and non-RES users | More info | -1 to Remove | Ignore Sub

[–]Ted8367 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Television, the great mind rot machine. These unfortunate victims deserve our sympathy, and maybe sheltered accommodations, but don't take their ravings too seriously.

[–]SOwED 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Lol how was it suspicious that you had similar numbers of downvotes on two comments that were saying basically the same thing?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

It makes it seem like it wasn't real people doing all the downvoting.

[–]SOwED 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

What? No, it makes it seem like everyone who downvoted you read both your comments and felt the same way about both of them.

[–]Throwawayingaccount 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

No, generally there is a curve as to how much a comment is voted on, it is VERY unusual for a grandchild post to have equal or more karma (positive or negative) than the grandparent.

[–]SOwED -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

No, not in a context like this.

The original comment wasnt top level, and anyone who cared enough to read his first comment probably read his second comment, and since they were spouting the same thing, it's totally reasonable that they would either upvote or downvote both.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

No, he's right. Even in direct succession, the curve never fails during normal circumstances.

[–]SOwED -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

You're off your rocker using absolutes like that. I have seen a similar thing plenty of times.

Stop thinking you're special enough for downvote bots. You were just making a weak argument with a smug tone.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I was insinuating it was possible, not certain.

[–]SOwED -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Saying it never fails during normal circumstances is not saying it's possible, but certain.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I see your point, but my comment was about how unusual it was for it not to follow this pattern it usually follows. It was an off-hand comment, anyway.

[–]rocelot7 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So what they are saying is that we need to teach women is that those warnings are prescriptions are there so doctors, pharmacists and pharmaceutical companies can't be sued if you where to take over such an amount, not that you'll magical die if you take too many and/or mix with alcohol. There not an how to suicide guide and are undervalued just for this reason.

Besides just because women attempt more doesn't make them more suicidal and at risk. That's an inaccurate conclusion if I ever heard one.

[–]KingRobotPrince 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that a man who goes somewhere quite and eats a bullet is counted the same as a woman who takes a load of pills with a bottle of wine and immediately calls everyone she knows to tell them what she has done. And that they are treated as one successful attempt and one unsuccessful attempt.

[–]Vapodaca17 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think you should be downgrading female suicide to push our point. That’s disingenuous and quite frankly a little disgusting of you. One suicide attempt is no worse than the other

[–]Ymoh- 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think you should be downgrading female suicide to push our point.

As a relative of somebody who did exactly what was presented here (taking pills after telling everybody he was gonna do it and immediately calling for help) I can tell you that four out of five therapists we went through said he was not really suicidal but desperate for some attention.

[–]KingRobotPrince 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not downgrading female suicide. I'm suggesting that there's a possibility that a woman who isn't suicidal might take a load of pills, call up her friends and get immediate medical attention as a "cry for help", but that may still get classed as an attempt at suicide.

This then allows people to say stupid things like "women actually attempt suicide more than men, but men choose more violent methods because men are more violent, so if women were as successful as men they would have more suicide". Which 1, shames men and calls them more violent (as if they're evil because they choose to comic suicide in a way that works), or 2, completely ignores the fact that a failed "suicide attempt" might simply be a cry for help. It totally skews the figures and belittles the fact that men commit suicide at a much higher rate than women.

[–]Vapodaca17 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

A guy could literally do the same thing so your whole argument is meaningless. You’re building some straw man like this happens a lot of the time when you have absolutely zero data to back that up

[–]KingRobotPrince 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

A guy could literally do the same thing

Of course he could, but what does that have to do with someone comparing female attempted suicide with male successful suicide rate?

You’re building some straw man like this happens a lot of the time when you have absolutely zero data to back that up

I don't know what you think a stawman is, but I'm not creating one. I'm making a suggestion, sharing an idea. That is not a strawman argument.

If anyone is creating a strawman, it's you, since you are suggesting I'm saying something that I am not.

[–]Vapodaca17 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Your whole argument is a female could do what you said and a guy could go blow his brains out and they both count as a suicide attempt and it skews the data. And then you admit that a guy could do just that, as a guy below in the comments even said he’s seen before with someone he knew. So bringing up that it could happen is kind of pointless. If that is happening on both sides I’m not sure how that is going to skew the data at all

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

One suicide attempt is no worse than the other

Uh, scratching your arm with a plastic fork is generally not as bad as putting a shotgun in your mouth and pulling the trigger.

[–]Vapodaca17 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Pretty sure scratching your arm with a plastic fork isn’t a suicide attempt don’t be ridiculous

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Well, you've just demonstrated my point. Thank you.

[–]Vapodaca17 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Explain to me how please because your scenario of someone trying to kill themselves with a plastic fork doesn’t happen. If someone actually found a way to kill themselves with a plastic fork and tried to do it, say in prison maybe but i doubt they’d allow you to have that in prison, then i don’t think it’s worse as you still attempted to legitimately kill yourself

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So, you're saying that if someone were to stab themselves on the wrist with a plastic fork, it wouldn't be a suicide attempt, because they didn't genuinely intend to kill themselves?

[–]Vapodaca17 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Did you even read my comment?

[–]Blutarg 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Jeez, that myth is harder to kill than Rasputin.

[–]KoprollendeParkiet 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Where was your source though?

[–]TheSilentFart01 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The argument these people never bring up is, if women choose less lethal methods of suicide than men, why?

[–]thro_way 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree with your position, but "Oh man, there's so much your missing" isn't really a point. And then the third comment went off into /r/iamverysmart tier; I would have downvoted it too.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't misspell your quotes of me.

I wrote that because I knew the person wouldn't listen, anyway.

[–]SuperfluousShadows -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

It seems like all they were saying is that women ATTEMPT suicide more often than men. Men die by suicide more often, but women attempt it more often.

[–]Arby01 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No, there's a fallacy in the statement that is important. I don't know exactly how to phrase it but this piece:

.. attempt more than once ... If women chose more deadly methods than the rates of attempts and successes would be closer.

I can't put my finger on how to express exactly what's wrong with this - but it's something like this:

If women's attempts being higher is simply that they try more than once before killing themselves, then we would see a similar death rate with more attempts. That's not what we see. We see that women want to end their lives at about 1/4 the rate that men do.

I think the converse argument may have more validity. If we actually gave care, attention and support to men that let us know that they were overwhelmed by demonstrating non-lethal "suicide" attempts then we would see a giant rise in male attempts and a reduction in male deaths.

ie. guys, rightly in my opinion, don't believe they will get much help if they act out in ways to tell people that they are becoming suicidal. So, by the time a guy gets to that point, he's ready to go.

Otherwise known as - we have no idea how many guys attempt suicide. A guy that puts a gun in his mouth may have looked at that gun 50 times in the previous year - all emotionally equivalent to a woman taking a handful of pills - but not picked it up and used it. If he got help in that time, maybe he would never have used it.

[–]Incident-Pit 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

attempts being higher is simply that they try more than once before killing themselves, then we would see a similar death rate with more attempts. That's not what we see. We see that women want to end their lives at about 1/4 the rate that men do.

This is exactly my issue too. It is clear as day that this is what's happening.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

About 90% of all suicide victims are men. Men are treated like disposable pieces of shit their entire lives. There are extremely few exceptions. Trying to take away the acknowledgement of that by coming and talking about attempts is just cruel. It's insult to injury.

[–]Incident-Pit -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I would love to see you cite anything to prove that, who's stats are you looking at? Russia?

[–]Aivias 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Prove that men are the majority of suicides?

[–]Incident-Pit 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

"Men are 90% of all suicides" is nowhere near as strong a claim as "men are the majority of all suicides." One is universally true the other is only true in a very select subset of countries.

[–]Aivias 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Are we scoring comments like Uni essays now? Because I missed the memo. Get over it, you know the real stats dont be a pedantic fuck wit.

[–]Incident-Pit 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow, someone is unreasonably angry over the Internet, huh? Someone shit (or forgot to, no judgement buddy, you do you) in your cereal or what?

[–]Wylanderuk 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And why should their inability to succeed generate any sympathy?

It leads to two conclusions...

  1. Its not a serious attempt.

  2. They really fucking suck at it and need to up their game.

So lets fix the gender suicide gap...I suggest classes on methods so they can succeed more and catch up.

[–]mymraccount_ac 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women don't actually attempt suicde more. Thre was a study, and I can't really be bothered to find it atm but I will, that showed that women intentional chose non-fatal sucide methods because their only intent was to get help.

[–]Blutarg 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

women attempt it more often

No, they do not. No agency counts suicide attempts, so there is absolutely no way to make that statement with any degree of confidence.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When you hear something like this it's tempting to jump into dissecting it's stupidity. Before you do, think deeply on what a piece of shit you'd have to be to compete for victimhood with the masses of dead humans.

[+]Foobyx -9 points-8 points-7 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Why the fuck do you talk about suicide?

She didn't. No one talk about it.

Your comment is totally irrelevant, please, hopefully you got downvoted. People express sympathy for the express and you come up comparing suicidal rate... Not the place to do it.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The first comment you see wasn't the first comment. It was a response. I didn't bring it up.

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