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UK Footballer Adam Johnson acquitted of underage sex, facing harsh sentence for "sexual touching" with 15yo fan. Despite female teachers regularly walking free after having repeated sex with young boys under their care.

[deleted]

March 2, 2016
42 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3472632/Adam-Johnson-GUILTY-sexual-touching-15-year-old-girl.html
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Title UK Footballer Adam Johnson acquitted of underage sex, facing harsh sentence for "sexual touching" with 15yo fan. Despite female teachers regularly walking free after having repeated sex with young boys under their care.
Author

[deleted]

Upvotes 42
Comments 54
Date March 2, 2016 10:35 PM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/48orvt/uk_footballer_adam_johnson_acquitted_of_underage/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/uk-footballer-adam-johnson-acquitted-of-underage.954844
https://theredarchive.com/post/954844

Comments

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Compare with the case of Caroline Berriman, who sexually abused a 15yo student and had sex with him over 50 times:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3252949/Schoolboy-seduced-disgraced-teaching-assistant-reveals-sex-50-times-told-pregnant.html

She was later given a puny 2 year jail term, while he is facing 5, for a single act that did not involve intercourse and a girl who wasn't under his care.

In the abusive, misandristic legal systems of some Western countries, gender is the only factor they consider.

[–]TheDude41 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

a

[–]geniice -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

In the abusive, misandristic legal systems of some Western countries, gender is the only factor they consider.

1)please stop linking to the daily mail.

2)Caroline Berriman pled guilty while Adam Johnson had a mix of late guilty pleas and not guilty pleas. This is something courts take into account.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She also had full unprotected sex with a child under her care more than 50 times. Or are you saying they don't take that kind of thing into account?

[–]xynomaster 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Say what you'd like about the dailymail, but they provide the most in-depth coverage of anyone when it comes to teacher sex abuse cases.

Also, Caroline Berriman was convicted of far more serious charges than Adam Johnson - multiple counts of a more serious sex offense that drove the victim to call a suicide hotline. Does pleading guilty really reduce multiple more serious accounts to a suspended sentence instead of years in prison? Seems unlikely.

[–]Machnow 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

you are correct about the daily mail. they do report more on female related crime than many other media. the Mirror does as well. another very good one is "zerocensorship.com" it's good for timley articles on crime, female crimes, politics, etc...

[–]geniice -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Say what you'd like about the dailymail, but they provide the most in-depth coverage of anyone when it comes to teacher sex abuse cases.

You mean lots of pictures? Depth is only meaningful if you can be sure it has some relationship with reality (and the manchester evening news probably has the best coverage of the Caroline Berriman case).

Also, Caroline Berriman was convicted of far more serious charges than Adam Johnson - multiple counts of a more serious sex offense that drove the victim to call a suicide hotline. Does pleading guilty really reduce multiple more serious accounts to a suspended sentence instead of years in prison? Seems unlikely.

Indeed it is which is why the sentence was increased on appeal. In Mr Johnson's case I can't work out exactly which set of guidelines the judge is following unless they are absolutely hammering him on the grooming charge.

[–]xynomaster 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You mean lots of pictures? Depth is only meaningful if you can be sure it has some relationship with reality (and the manchester evening news probably has the best coverage of the Caroline Berriman case).

I suppose it's possible it's all bullshit, but I tend to follow these cases closely and it's amazing how something will happen in some little town in Idaho and the dailymail will have more specific details than any of the local papers.

Indeed it is which is why the sentence was increased on appeal. In Mr Johnson's case I can't work out exactly which set of guidelines the judge is following unless they are absolutely hammering him on the grooming charge.

This is precisely the point. The judge is CHOOSING to hammer him, as judges almost inevitably do when dealing with a man who abuses girls, while the judge CHOSE to take it very easy on Berriman for more serious charges, as judges almost inevitably do when dealing with a woman who abuses boys. It took an appeals court to intervene and even still she got a very lenient sentence.

For reference, this is not uncommon. Look up Caroline Berriman, or Marie McCarthy, or Caroline Salisbury, or Kelly Jane Richards, or Karen Ackland. All 5 of these women were charged with one or more counts of child sex crimes more serious than Adam Johnson's, and all 5 avoided jail in their initial sentence (all 5 were later sentenced to 2-3 years in jail on appeal). Jade Hatt was convicted of a charge that is the equivalent to rape if committed by a man, an offense more serious by a huge amount than Johnson's, and avoided jail entirely (and had that upheld). Yet these aren't the outliers, these are the norms. Judges, over and over, use their discretion to allow women to walk free yet hammer men with years in prison for the same crimes.

I'd challenge you to find one man over 25 who admitted to engaging in sex with a girl 15 or under in the UK and didn't go to jail at the first sentencing. I showed you 6 women over the last year. Given that there are far more male sex offenders than female, assuming equal sentencing it should be very simple to find at least one example. Of course, since sentencing is not equal, you won't be able to find more than 1 or 2 (if you can even find that many). It's not fair to boy victims who have to watch their abusers smirk as they walk free and wonder why their rape didn't matter.

[–]geniice -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'd challenge you to find one man over 25 who admitted to engaging in sex with a girl 15 or under in the UK and didn't go to jail at the first sentencing.

Neil Wilson, Ross Thomas and Leonard Bennett (note in the later two due to the way the law worked at the time raping a male would be classified as indecent assault).

[–]xynomaster 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok so Neil Wilson, that's one. The other two abused boys, which of course doesn't show very much because I'm arguing that abuse of boys isn't taken seriously (in particular abuse by women, but even abuse of boys by men is taken less seriously). And the Neil Wilson case is from 2013, which is well before any of the examples I listed (the earliest was late 2014).

My point anyways was that dozens or probably hundreds of men each year are convicted of child sex crimes in the UK, and probably upwards of 95% of those who engage in sex with girls under 16 go to jail straight away. A dozen or so women each year are convicted, and right around 90% or so avoid jail entirely (at least on the first sentencing). I know I just pulled those statistics out of my ass but given that we can't find any man who did this with a girl in the last 2 years and avoided jail (out of hundreds prosecuted), but we can find 6 women in the last 2 years who did this and avoided jail (out of roughly 8 prosecuted), I think there is some serious evidence that there is a huge problem with judges not taking this abuse of boys seriously.

I really appreciate Jeremy Wright and the solicitor general for launching a personal crusade against this over the last few years, but I'm worried what happens when they are replaced...when another attorney general takes over, and is no longer interested in appealing boys' cases as unduly lenient (as no other prosecutor has been before). All those suspended sentences will just start to stand again and boys will lose all the protection they've gained.

[–]Consilio_et_Animis 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I really wonder how long he will get once the judge has sat back and considered what this guy did — which was not much. If he gives too long a sentence, that it will be appealed, and that can be a black mark against the judge if the appeal is won.

What works against Adam Johnson, is that he was disrespectful to the court on a couple of occasions; plus he denied the charges, and so the girl had to go though the court case.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

plus he denied the charges, and so the girl had to go though the court case

And was acquitted on the most serious one, which means she was lying.

[–]geniice 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And was acquitted on the most serious one, which means she was lying.

No it means it can't be proven beyond reasonable doubt. If I say I just tossed a coin and it came up heads would I be lying? Well no but I can't prove it beyond reasonable doubt.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

These trials don't work like that, it comes down to the jury finding who was telling the truth and who was lying.

[–]TheDude41 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

a

[–]geniice 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Well, it doesn't necessarily mean she was lying. However, a court can hardly fault a man and force him to serve a longer sentence for not pleading guilty to a charge to which he was subsequently found not guilty.

However he also plead not guilty to charges on which he was found guilty. The court is also unlikely to be too impressed with his late guilt pleas on other charges (although I'd expect him to get a slight reduction for that). That said as far as I'm aware he has no previous convictions so I'd expect the sentence to be at the lower end of the range.

[–]TheDude41 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

a

[–]geniice -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Irrelevant.

No competent attorney ought recommend that a client plead guilty to a lesser charge, while at the same time the client is being charged with a a more severe crime that he did not commit, arising from the same circumstance. The risk in doing so - of undermining his case to argue his innocence to a greater charge which he did not commit, is simply too great.

Mr Johnson is quite wealthy. He will have had some very good lawyers.

Not unless the guilty plea to the lesser charge is made as part of a plea agreement to drop the more serious charge. I see no evidence that this man was offered a plea agreement to drop the greater charge to which he was found not guilty, in exchange for pleading guilty to the lesser charge.

UK doesn't really have plea bargains (although the current government is trying to introduce them). Historically it has been felt that there is too great a risk of people pleading guilty to lesser chargers to avoid facing more serious ones in court.

It's a travesty of justice to penalize a man for failing to plead guilty to a crime, if doing so at the same time places him in jeopardy of being convicted of a greater crime to which he was subsequently found not guilty.

There is no particular evidence that that was the case.

Every accused person has a human right to mount a full-throated defense to a charge to which he is not guilty, and should never fear that in doing so, he risks being treated harshly with respect to other alleged crimes.

And indeed there is no evidence that he will be. He will be sentenced on basis of the offences he plead guilty to and was found guilty of. His lawyers will make a decent play of any mitigating factors.

[–]TheDude41 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

a

[–]Consilio_et_Animis -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good point. And it was only a majority verdict — 10 to 2.

[–]aokusman 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Didn't a baby sitter get a suspended sentence for sleeping with an 11 year old boy?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just one of many, many cases of women walking free for sexually abusing boys.

[–]Machnow 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

baby sitter got a suspended sentence for sleeping with an 11 year old boy? ........yes she did, and it was upheld by a higher court as a fit sentence. she's on OK Cupid now, her profile says she real nice, kind person...no mention she's a pedophile though.....with regards to Adam Johnson...it's incedible how much outrage from so many has transpired from one blowjob. worst blowjob ever....

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

it's incedible how much outrage from so many has transpired from one blowjob. worst blowjob ever....

Actually that is what the acquittal was for.

[–]aokusman 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I remember the case of a man who sucker punched another man, and the other man died. He got 5yrs. How kissing can and touching can get more is ridiculous. Every time I read the daily mail there is a teacher walking free for doing worse.

[–]mrathrw 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Has this subreddit degenerated to minimizing Adam Johnson's crimes because "others have done a lot worse"? Is this the hill we want to fight on?

Johnson was found guilty of grooming a 15 year old for sex, and fingering her. His texts clearly indicate that he knew, or strongly suspected that she was underage, and so he followed up by googling the age of consent in the UK. He also encouraged the girl to delete all texts. Daily Mail link, yada yada, but you can read the texts for yourself.

He deserved punishment for what he did. What other women may or may not have done has nothing to do with it. Fight to recognize the victims of those women's crimes, not to minimize the activities of real criminals.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Discrimination in the law is a Men's Rights issue. One of the most important. And cases where men get punished far more harshly than women for lesser crimes is evidence of discrimination and worth talking about. If you can't understand that maybe you should go and throw a ball against a wall or something. I am getting tired of dealing with mental degenerates on this sub.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What punishment do you think Adam Johnson should get?

[–]TheDude41 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

a

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

One charge of grooming:

on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years.

Two counts of sexual activity with a child:

on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years.

The theoretical maximum he could get would be 38 years. As things are, 4-10 years is hardly 'harsh'. That works out to 1-3 years for the grooming charge, and 1.5-3.5 years for each charge of sexual activity with a child.

I appreciate that there are a plethora of cases where women do not receive appropriate sentences for sexual abuse of children and that's a huge injustice, but two wrongs don't make a right.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

So you're against equality, got it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Nice strawman. I'm disgusted by cases where female child rapists get suspended sentences and I recognise the two cases in the current top comments instantly without even needing to look them up. Jade Hatt was the woman who had sex with the 11/12 year old boy iirc, and the dad and judge defended and excused her. A horrible case. Caroline Berriman's victim ended up on a talk show talking about how much he had been traumatised by the events. Both of their sentences were an utter joke compared to their charges.

I assume you also feel the same way, that these women have escaped the punishment that they deserve for their crimes. Arguing for excessively lenient sentences for male perps too isn't going to fix that problem though.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Arguing for excessively lenient sentences for male perps

LOL and she accuses me of making a strawman. Why don't you cunt off back to AMR, you don't belong here.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

1) I'm not a woman.

2) Congratulations, you've looked at my immediate post history and found that I've made two comments in AMR recently because I happened to agree with them on something, so you decided to move from strawmanning straight to an ad hominem. If only you'd have looked back slightly further and found that 90%+ of my comments are in /r/MensRights and I am clearly pro-MR. Sherlock Holmes you ain't.

3) Clearly this is a comment from someone who doesn't want female child rapists to receive just punishments.

4) I'm still waiting for you to offer an actual rebuttal to my arguments.

Edit: 5) If my assessment of your position is incorrect, please explain your position. From the title of the post you seem to be advocating for a much more lenient sentence.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Fuck off.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent argument. You can't even be bothered to correct my supposed strawman with your actual position, probably because my interpretation is actually correct.

[–]CleanLean 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The courts are known to give women lesser sentences than men for the same crime. Also how is it Bill Wyman can be involved with a 14 year old who he eventually married and who consummated the relationship when Mandy Smith was 14 and not have any repercussions? I don't really think Johnson did himself any favours but he was stitched up massively by this silly little girl and her family

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I do not believe he should be jailed at all for this. It will be travesty if he spends in day in jail.

[–]TheDude41 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

a

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, and the way the media is making it like he dragged some girl into the bushes and raped her...

[–]mwobuddy -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's been the entire point behind age of consent laws and "predator" terminology. It looks like all of them pull someone into bushes for non-consenting fucking.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not when its a female teacher preying on her male student. More like glamour shots in the Daily Mail and "inappropriate relationship" terminology.

[–]HeForeverBleeds 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

You know, one thing I find interesting about these cases is how if it's an attractive man whom the girl really likes, it's depicted as if the man were taking advantage of the girl's infatuation (e.g. "she really liked him and he took advantage of this")

Whereas if it's an attractive woman whom the boy really likes it's depicted as a sexual fantasy come true (e.g. "he really liked her and now he finally got what he wanted") Why is it never considered that maybe the attractive women are taking advantage of the boy's infatuation with her? or conversely that the girl really liked the attractive man and this is her wish come true?

It's pretty much that for boys it's okay if the woman's hot and if the boy fantasizes about her. But for girls, if the man's hot and the girl fantasizes about him, that just makes it even worse because now he's preying on the fact that she likes him

This case is very similar to that recent story of the 16 year old boy who was to live with an adult female pornstar for a month. But of course in that case everyone was all "she's so hot and awesome that the boy is so lucky" and in this case everyone is all "he's so famous and awesome that the girl was clearly groomed"

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There are some double standards no one wants to talk about.

[–]geniice 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This case is very similar to that recent story of the 16 year old boy who was to live with an adult female pornstar for a month.

Age of consent is 16 in the UK. If Mr Johnson had waited a few months his actions while questionable would have been legal.

[–]HeForeverBleeds -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I sincerely doubt that the fact that he's 16 is the determining factor here. Even in cases where the boy's 12/13/14/15 the responses are still exactly the same

[–]geniice 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Legaly in the UK it would be the determining factor (mostly. You can't take pics until they are 18 unless you are married to them).

[–]Geopolitography 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

HeForeverBleeds post was less about the legal system and more about how society tends to view the same crime differently if the genders are swapped.

[–]ChaosOpen 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When this happens to a guy he is told it's "another notch on his belt" and that "he should be glad he was able to have sex."

[–]rg57 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

He was acquitted of letting her perform oral sex on him. However, he was convicted of putting his hand down her pants.

Even if true, the whole thing is ridiculous. She consented. Nobody was harmed until the court got involved. Now at least two lives are ruined.

From another news report:

[He texted] “Wasn’t bad was it? Lol”. She replied: “No haha”. He continued: “Haha think we need to go in the back next time lol”. She said: “Haha yeah”.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep, if it was a woman and a boy the word "relationship" would be strewn throughout every news article about the case. But he is:
1) a man
2) a high profile footballer

[–]that_nagger_guy -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You people are ruining your own movement with this retarded shit. B-b-but the female teachers get away with it is not an excuse when this guy have groomed an underage girl.

[–]HeForeverBleeds 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I believe the point of this post--since evidently you're missing it--is the hypocrisy, and how people like to be outraged about a guy putting his hands down a 15 year old girl's pants, and all the while making excuses for the women who actually carry through with intercourse with boys 15 and often younger

I would say all the outrage people have towards this guy should be applied to those women as well, but the problem is that for the most part it is not

[–]that_nagger_guy -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I believe the point of this post--since evidently you're missing it--is the hypocrisy

The irony! It's alive!

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