Made To Penetrate Included In FBI Uniform Crime Reporting Rape Guidelines

evolutionof · 2015-10-23T17:33:39+00:00

Could you clarify what happened? Is "made to penetrate" now written somewhere now, or is this just one person's interpretation of the ambiguous law?

icefire54 · 2015-10-23T18:14:42+00:00

I can guarantee you that this definition will be left out the next time they do surveys and they will keep using Mary Koss's definition.

girlwriteswhat · 2015-10-24T00:12:36+00:00

I've known this for a while. Another redditor wrote them a while back, and it took quite a while for him to get a response. Several emails over a few months, if I recall, before they responded to say yes it would be included, however, they should probably inform the various police agencies reporting to them that it does, as it's not clear.

My suspicion is that the new definition was not written with the intent of including it, but when someone asked, and the question went up the chain of command, they realized that the wording as such does not exclude it. This is why I think it took so long for the FBI to get back to this guy months and months ago--because no one at the bottom of the hierarchy knew what to say, and the higher ups had to decide what to tell people.

And when they looked at the wording:

Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.

...they realized it could read thus:

Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus by Person A of Person B with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of Person B, without the consent of the Person B.

Or:

Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus by Person A of Person B with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of Person B, without the consent of Person A.

In other words, I think it's entirely probable that it was accidental, but now they're stuck with it.

MRA-automatron-2kb · 2015-10-23T17:31:19+00:00

His answer contradicts the official definition of rape which is gender biased in favour of women.

Jacobtk · 2015-10-23T18:03:00+00:00

I assumed that would be the response. The next question is how does the FBI know if the police departments reporting their cases used the same definition? How do they know those cases were not called and therefore categorized as something else?

DavidByron2 · 2015-10-24T00:03:23+00:00

I'm not inclined to believe this at all. When they created a list of example incidents that would now be included they missed off any female raping male scenarios. Ultimately it doesn't matter in the slightest what the FBI's understanding is if they deliberately fail to make it clear to the reporting state offices what the new rules are. As it stands they are going to have to guess what the new definition means the same as anyone else, and most people assume the wording excludes male victims of women, just as it always has.

So until i see some actual reporting of men raped by women I'm going to assume it is not being reported regardless of what the FBI says.

MRA-automatron-2kb · 2015-10-23T18:24:28+00:00

This man's answer isn't valid.

It's like asking a sales associate what is the warranty and he says 5 years but the warranty card inside the box says 1 year.

It's the written version that matters not what someone says as the other FBI employees might not know of the extended definition.

Tamen_ · 2015-10-24T07:04:54+00:00

I am pleased to see that a training instructor also is saying this, but unfortunately such a scenario isn't included in the reporting guidelines that are distributed by the FBI to the reporting law enforcing agencies. See the included link for some more details.

Unfortunately until they do these mail replies you, femmecheng and I got aren't sufficient to for instance change the Wikipedia article on rape and/or the one on male rape to state that this is included in the FBI definition of rape.

http://tamenwrote.wordpress.com/2015/05/10/an-update-on-fbis-definition-of-rape/

Rethgil · 2015-10-23T22:49:01+00:00

Good to see. However, there should also be a definition equivalent of rape that is not biased by gender. An equivalent would be "enveloping without consent of the male sexual organ." That would be an equivalent of someone fingering a woman without consent called a rape, so it could be viewed equally if a woman did similar to a man. It also covers drunk rape and throws a new light on women claiming they are the victim of rape when there is an instance of a drunk man and woman having sex. Drink is blind to gender-even if the law, and feminists aren't. It affects both, not just the first to regret their choice. A change in law to view enveloping of the male sexual organ without clear consent as also constituting rape would reset the balance here. It would take the loaded gun out of the hand of feminism and put back some balance in sexual relations

GoldenRulesy · 2015-10-24T06:44:03+00:00

I'd love to know if this exchange could be used as testimony in court, in the case of a woman forcing a man, through coercion or otherwise, to penetrate her. Compel Mr. Swanson to testify.

Spoonwood · 2015-11-15T21:46:48+00:00

Even with that, the definition still has a double standard to it.

A vagina getting penetrated by an object without the consent of the victim is rape.

But, a penis getting made to penetrate an object without the consent of the victim is not rape.

Title	Made To Penetrate Included In FBI Uniform Crime Reporting Rape Guidelines
Author	secv808
Upvotes	208
Comments	53
Date	October 23, 2015 4:16 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3px7uy/made_to_penetrate_included_in_fbi_uniform_crime/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/made-to-penetrate-included-in-fbi-uniform-crime.968764 https://theredarchive.com/post/968764

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