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Barber shop fined for not cutting woman's hair.

LAMFF

September 8, 2015
31 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.observer-reporter.com/article/20150907/NEWS01/150909517
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Post Information
Title Barber shop fined for not cutting woman's hair.
Author

LAMFF

Upvotes 31
Comments 42
Date September 8, 2015 7:34 PM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3k4s1g/barber_shop_fined_for_not_cutting_womans_hair/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/barber-shop-fined-for-not-cutting-womans-hair.971774
https://theredarchive.com/post/971774
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Comments

[–]danpilon 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I say they should accept the women as customers and give them a good ol' buzz cut. That way they are providing the same service regardless of gender.

[–]xNOM 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She asked for a men's haircut...

[–]IronWolve 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you sell a service someone wants, go ahead, if its not on the menu, then its not discrimination. If she wanted a normal haircut guys get, go ahead.

The other argument for mens spaces. I can see them wanting the place to stay as a refuge for men. We have 2 barber shops like this in Seattle, Guys one side, Gals the other. But both will do haircuts for each gender, its not as old fashioned gab fest, in fact the door was open and people chatting between them.

Men and women do tend to use the one more catered towards them.

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If she wanted a normal haircut guys get, go ahead.

She did.

The other argument for mens spaces.

If you really wanted a men's only barbershop you would have to make it a club with membership. This would be great actually. I bet most of the business these places get are regular customers, anyway.

[–]a_warm_gun 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I'm totally fine with this. She wanted a men's style haircut.

Pecjak, a cosmetologist, wanted a fade, a trendy men's haircut. She declined to comment on her complaint, upon her attorney's advice.

[–]throweezus 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

yep, same.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Any private establishment should be able to refuse sevice to anyone for any reason. Freedom includes freedom-of-association. By supporting this you are supporting the same big government-mentality that allows for instituional sexism.

[–]a_warm_gun 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I disagree. People of a community are allowed to decide which rules they live by, including disallowing businesses from refusing service to people based on gender, race, religion, etc.

If you want to get hyperbolic with stuff like

By supporting this you are supporting the same big government-mentality that allows for instituional sexism.

--then by the same mentality I can say you're supporting segregation.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]a_warm_gun 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

No, segregation was a long, long period that included both segregation by law and segregation by fact. You want to use the State to force communities to NOT implement rules against that.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]a_warm_gun 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry, I wasn't trying to confuse the two. I thought that in the context, it was clear I was objecting to individual persons and businesses practicing segregation.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]sillymod 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Kinda like those guys in California who are going to women's conferences and such simply to start a lawsuit?

[–]DavidByron2 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Pennsylvania seems on the ball. They have also quashed Ladies Night.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/bethlehem/index.ssf/2011/08/pennsylvania_bars_can_offer_la.html

[–]torrentfox 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

My local barbershop in Philly does traditional men's style cuts. Last time I went in there was a woman getting one. Totally cool by me, and looked pretty sharp.

I don't buy the argument that it negatively affects the environment. At least in my experience, everyone seemed fine with it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Then start your own barbershop and do it like that. In a free country the owner should be able to decide. I'm talking actual freedom - individual liberty. Not the twisted "positive" version of it.

[–]torrentfox 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Problem is that most people probably don't want an IT guy cutting their hair. I'm fine with how things are. I don't think we're going to see a massive influx of women getting buzz cuts and cackling about ruining the ambience.

I'm also glad that businesses where I am are places of public accommodation. Do you think it would be better, for example, if they could still turn blacks away at the lunch counter?

[–]EightyTimes 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Then start your own barbershop and do it like that. In a free country the owner should be able to decide.

Your focus is too narrow.

A country is a group of people who have agreed on a set of rules which are created, voted on, and taxed to be enforced.

This guy is benefiting from his country's regulated money, wealthy citizens, and laws which allow him to open a business in the first place.

Enough people have a problem with reffusal of service based on gender that it's a law.

If he doesn't like it, he's free to leave the country and find a place that suits him better.

Or perhaps live at sea where he can regulate his own currency, grow his own population, defend himself, set up his own infrastructure, and refuse the service of whoever he wants.

[–]rottingchrist -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

People here are so naive.

This is just the beginning. Soon the victimry will follow. Men in barbershops make women uncomfortable. Barber shop environments are misogynistic. Barbers can look down my shirt while I'm getting a haircut. Barber shop rape culture.

No. Keep them out.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This is paranoid delusion.

[–]rottingchrist 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Like it hasn't happened in a thousand other fields already.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of women won't even think to get their haircuts at barbershops for fear of not getting what they want. In this case, the woman wanted a men's style style haircut and smartly thought the best place to do that would be a place that specializes in men's styles. I'm totally unsympathetic to the owner's explanation that serving a woman is "infringing on our environment."

If you were denied service anywhere on the basis of your sex, even if the service offered was typically something "for women," I am certain you would be justifiably upset.

We just had a series of threads the other day about men's groups disrupting a private business that discriminated against men. This is exactly the same!

[–]rottingchrist 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We just had a series of threads the other day about men's groups disrupting a private business that discriminated against men. This is exactly the same!

Yeah it was. And do you think I don't want to keep it as simple as "no discrimination anywhere" and just let women have haircuts wherever they want? That'd be pretty nice and uncomplicated and I'd be on board with it completely if I hadn't seen how similar situations turn out in the past.

The problem is that inevitably the victim narrative will arrive. Without fail. We've seen it in countless other male spaces and industries.

Any goodwill from men in these kinds of sitautions is wasted.

[–]sillymod 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Beware the slippery slope argument. First it will be a "this is just a beginning" and then it will be "all hell has broken loose!"

[–]rottingchrist 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What is precedent?

[–]EightyTimes 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is just the beginning. Soon the victimry will follow.

Then go up-in-arms WHEN that happens instead of safeguarding against a possible future where it does.

When you pre-emotively attack you're just as shallow and emotional as the people you're guarding against. Stay vigilant, stoic, and only react when there's something to actually react to.

your overzealousness will only cause reaction on the other side of the fence, creating a problem where there wasn't one.

[–]bluewit 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

From Anglo-Norman barbour, from Old French barbeor, from barbe ‎(“beard”), from Latin barba.

A person whose profession is cutting (usually male) customers' hair and beards.

But really:

c. 1300, from Anglo-French barbour (attested as a surname from early 13c.), from Old French barbeor, barbieor (Modern French barbier, which has a more restricted sense than the English word), from Vulgar Latin *barbatorem, from Latin barba "beard" (see barb (n.)). Originally also regular practitioners of surgery, they were restricted to haircutting and dentistry under Henry VIII.

So next time any of you men or ladies see a barber you may wanna ask em what they charge for dental work or surgery.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea fuck individual rights! Better hope the almighty legislature never goes after men's rights (too late).

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The Great Canadian Barbershop War has crossed the 49th Parallel. Won't somebody think of the lesbians who are going without haircuts? It's time for the UN to organize an airdrop of scissors.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/13a51o/woman_denied_haircut_at_barbershop_claims_its_a/

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1l4rnr/woman_denied_haircut_at_mens_only_barbershop_in/

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2f3ec3/barbershop_wont_cut_womens_hair_evie_ruddy_plans/

[–]EightyTimes 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

This is not a Men's Right issue.

She went in for a men's haircut and he denied her, he'participating in a business practice that conflicts with the law.

If his culture/environment is ruined by a single woman getting a haircut with her man, he's doing it wrong to begin with.

If anything, this is a business regulation issue... should business owners have to right to refuse service based on gender/race/whatever

[–]sillymod 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I agreed with you at first, but then it was counter argued that the discussion here is relevant.

[–]EightyTimes 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What's the counter?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Why shouldn't he get to decide if he's "doing it wrong". It is his business. This very same mentality enables feminism.

[–]EightyTimes 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I say it as a business owner/consultant/investor looking at the business objectively.

His unique value proposition is "this is a place for guys to come and relax". If he was doing it right, a stray woman getting a haircut from time-to-time wouldn't ruin the vibe/culture. However, because it does, his culture is weak, and he's "doing it wrong".

I know of some barber shops, strip clubs, and lodges that are "doing it right". They provide a place/culture that's unappealing to women customers without outright breaking the law by denying service.

[–]sillymod[M] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Edit: Decision reversed.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Isnt the fact that many commenters pointed out this business cannot discriminate against one gender of customers the same way that those Chic Tech women weren't allowed to a positive thing? Also proof that MR's aren't as tone deaf and filled with rage & misogyny as previously portrayed.

[–]sillymod 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good point. There were ~10 of these posts, most with no comments. On its own, it would be an issue of women's rights. But you make a good argument.

[–]Tmomp -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

A couple days ago we saw

Some Jerks Used a 56-Year-Old Anti-Discrimination Law to Shut Down “Women in Tech” Group

Unless some media called these women jerks, the reporting of people fighting sexism seems sexist.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not sure why someone downvoted you, you're correct. Getting sick of the lack of self awareness on this sub.

[–]sillymod 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"I am going to selectively read the comments on this thread to reconfirm my bias, and then state how sick I am of having that bias confirmed."

Dude. Seriously. This entire thread is a controversy. Only by using blinders can you read this and say "Getting sick of the lack of self awareness on this sub."

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