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Stubborn pay gap is found in nursing

cellardoor3

March 24, 2015
36 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/stubborn-pay-gap-is-found-in-nursing/?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
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Post Information
Title Stubborn pay gap is found in nursing
Author

cellardoor3

Upvotes 36
Comments 30
Date March 24, 2015 3:45 PM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3054b7/stubborn_pay_gap_is_found_in_nursing/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/stubborn-pay-gap-is-found-in-nursing.985003
https://theredarchive.com/post/985003
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Comments

[+]porkmaster 11 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

The one thing they do not address at all is the hours worked/overtime/call pay. Amazing how working more can make you get more pay. Any "inequality" statistic that's doesn't address the time worked is bogus.

[–]xNOM 9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Not only that, it's not linear. Working 30% more hours does not correspond to 30% more pay. It gets you more than 30% more pay, on average. Employers value employees who can put in longer hours. This is one of the main overall reasons for the gender wage gap per hour.

[–]the_people 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Citation that supports the non-linear overtime argument and how it explains the (overall) pay gap.

http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/goldin/files/goldin_aeapress_2014_1.pdf

[–]SigmundFloyd76 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"wage gap per hour"

Per hour? I'm betting all of these nurses are paid equally "per hour" when it's broken down by job title and experience. It's when we add up the earnings at the end of the year and then extrapolate it back to get a "per hour" figure.

These are union jobs too, right? No way in hell is one person being paid a higher wage than another without reason.

I contend that as far as hourly nursing wages go relating to this story, there is NO PAY GAP. An earnings gap sure; men tend to "earn" more by working overtime.

Also while I'm venting, there is a high social, physical, emotional and family cost to those who work high amounts of overtime. Why this is never mentioned really bothers me.

Cheers.

[–]agent_of_entropy 12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

At my facility, administration tends to prefer male nurses because:

  • We're more reliable
  • We're more professional
  • We're more competent
  • We're less emotional

I make very close to an RN's base pay because I pick up a lot of overtime r/t my female coworkers constantly calling off.

[–]MittenMagick 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You forgot to mention "We can do more of the physical labor tasks the job requires, like physically restrain patients if necessary"

[–]guywithaccount 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're also better at lifting heavy patients and restraining violent ones.

[–]agent_of_entropy 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. Also seem to be better at redirecting the behaviors of potentially violent patients.

[–]nerostorm 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Just to make sure, you're not saying that women aren't just as reliable, professional and competent as men in general, right?

[–]agent_of_entropy 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What I'm not saying hasn't been said. What I am saying has been said.

[–]nerostorm 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You make a good point!

[+]cellardoor3 11 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

The study did not address reasons underpinning the persistent gap.

This sentence, buried near the bottom of the blog post, should have been near the top. I'm glad it was included at all.

This, however, was near the beginning:

“We now have pretty compelling evidence that there are pay inequalities between men and women in nursing over the past 25 years,” [emphasis mine].

"Inequalities" is a perfect word to use when describing a relationship between quantities that differ in value. It is also politically loaded as it connotes injustice. This is how the wage gap myth perpetuates itself through media reporting. A headline talks about pay gaps and gender pay inequalities and the popular interpretation is almost invariably that men are paid more entirely because of gender bias.

[–]guywithaccount 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

the popular interpretation is almost invariably that men are paid more entirely because of gender bias.

This is because feminism has been telling people this for decades - including indoctrinating schoolchildren and college students with feminist propaganda - and the more we're able to spread the message that differences in pay are attributable to career choice and hours worked, the less people will automatically assume that earnings gaps are caused by sexism.

[–]cellardoor33 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Right. And I shouldn't have said "men are paid more," but rather "men earn more."

[–]rocelot7 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Having contemplated going into nursing, and having friends who work in the nursing field this isn't just about hours worked. Male nurses are often giving more money because they are considered more capable of physically lifting immobile patients or even physical restraining disruptive ones.

[–]nerostorm 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Then they should get paid for when they actually do that, and not just because they could do that. If I worked as a nurse I wouldn't be lifting a lot of patients or restraining them, because I'm 170cm and weigh like 55kg. It wouldn't be fair if I was paid more because of my gender, but it would be fair if I was paid more because of my abilities, and if a man or a a woman is more capable of lifting and restraining patients then they qualify for getting paid more.

[–]SporkTornado 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The study did not address reasons underpinning the persistent gap. There could be several reasons, Dr. Muench said: Men may be better negotiators, for instance, or perhaps women more often leave the work force to raise children. Women may have a tougher time getting promoted, she said.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

or perhaps women more often leave the work force to raise children.

Or maybe the men do more work. When some 400lb fatass comes in to be moved to a chair, the corn chip-stuffed pig in scrubs hits the "get a man to do it" button.

[–]SimCity8000 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

What a hateful comment towards women. Probably wouldn't do much the MRM image.

[–]FlackoJodye 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

No, but it is true. Ask any man working as a nurse, they are always the go-to for lifting people out of beds in hospitals. Although I do agree the way he said it is pretty salty.

[–]odel555q 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The salt probably came from all the corn chips.

[–]SimCity8000 -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not here to argue women have the physical capacity to lift a human body the same way men do.

But what he said is indicative of how he feels about women, for sure. Which leads me to question - is this guy a.) legitimately interesting in furthering mens rights b.) a dude who comes here just to hate on women or c.) a troll trying to make you guys look bad.

[–]FlackoJodye 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh I agree with you. Like I said, the way he said it makes it sound like he has a bit of a chip on his shoulder. I'd say his reasons are a bit of all of the above. Just judging from his name, I don't think he is too interested in getting feminists/women to agree with the MRM. I was just making a statement on the validity of his comment, regardless of delivery.

[–]slayer064 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Whoa there buddy. Why are you jumping to conclusions about how this guys feels about women? To me, it infers there is someone in his life that eats a lot of corn chips and makes him do a ton of work because they are lazy.

Maybe you shouldn't react to the way you think people on the internet feel, or just don't post. I would prefer it if you just didn't post.

[–]SimCity8000 -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How can I be jumping to conclusions when I gave three options to choose from?

Also, random internet person, thank you for sharing your preferences with me as to where I should and should not post. I will take that into consideration.

[–]prybarn 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Probably just a hateful comment towards sexist nurses.

[+]Telamir 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

This makes very little sense. Isn't this field essentially female dominated? I'm a physician and I can count male nurses in my floor/hospital with both my hands.

[–]prybarn -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe it's the same reason a woman who works in tech will often end up with a cushy, well-paying "project manager" job that requires her to understand nothing aside from nagging people.

[–]izomo 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think these people realize how valuable male nurses are to a hospital environment.

[–]lastlaugh50 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

From my experience women often work part time in nursing or:

They show up and then have to go right back home to care for their sick child, their babysitter had to leave suddenly or they have to take their child to the emergency room. Or they take months off work for maternity leave.

Meanwhile the men in nursing continue to gain experience and decide to work PRN at multiple hospitals which allows them to double their income. PRN means you may have to come in on a day off and work but you would get paid time and a half.

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