Man with sympathy for both MRA's and Feminists here. My one comment/criticism of the MRA movement.

SRSLovesGawker · 2014-06-22T22:40:49+00:00

I rarely if ever see MRA's actively fighting against the alienation of LGBT men in male groups, and we all know this still exists, to varying extents.

It does? I haven't caught the slightest whiff of gay or trans alienation here. Is there some sort of subtle undercurrent of homophobia that we're all somehow missing? Is the fact that we focus on men (some of who may happen to be gay or trans) as opposed to focusing on gay men somehow interpreted as hostility?

Ironhigh · 2014-06-22T22:18:53+00:00

Men's rights is a bout men's rights.We don't try to steal victim cards from other demographics just to look good.

Keep in mind, just because we try to stay in the topic of men's rights, doesn't mean we are against the LGBT cause.In fact, I doubt that anyone here is against it.We have some posts about gay marriage every now and then here.

liquid_j · 2014-06-22T22:40:51+00:00

I think mra's stand for all men, no matter their dirty bit preference. Its not like we're MRAs*.

*not applicable to gay men

Have you seen any posts here saying straight mens rights? I haven't.

anonlymouse · 2014-06-22T21:57:05+00:00

Feminists are also actively fighting against it, as long as they're G, B with a penis, or Trans (particularly born with a penis). They don't get the high ground on this.

Eulabeia · 2014-06-23T00:28:28+00:00

Feminists are the ones who are actively fighting for and representing LGBT's.

What makes you say that? You got a significant portion of them that openly hate trans people, then I'd bet that a lot of them also secretly hate gay men for not be a slave to pussy.

It's just another cause that they try to co-opt because they don't have anything real to complain about. Women face comparatively little discrimination for being homo/bisexual.

MeMyselfandBi · 2014-06-23T00:55:38+00:00

I'm a bisexual (technically pansexual) guy and I know there isn't any emphasis or focus on LGBT issues in the MensRights subreddit but I want you to realize two things: 1) there are MRAs who are also LGBTQ or Straight Allies and 2) we don't want to clarify one man's issues as being more important than another's. We acknowledge that we all face different experiences in our lives, whether being a man, woman, or something in between, but to co-opt a group of people by morals alone forces divides in LGBT communities that are counterintuitive. I, and I'm sure many others, welcome any LGBTQ person who wishes to voice experiences, concerns, or questions within this subreddit that deal with their stance in their life or the lives of others, but their issues wouldn't be treated any differently. We all need safe spaces, regardless of where we come from or how we were born, and we shouldn't need to clarify every single minority group in our approach just to get some moral brownie points.

Yes, we acknowledge that there are a vastly different array of men and women who have faced lives that vary between empathetic for ourselves or sympathetic for ourselves, but we shouldn't draw lines in the sand for claims over minority communities. Co-opting other communities is superficial.

Well, that's my opinion though. Others may say something different.

Edit

Also, I feel like this is one of the things that makes the MRM become this public image of "hate speech". Feminist groups take the co-opted groups and declare that because they are for these groups, then we are against them. It is unjust to assume that somebody's issues doesn't matter to a group simply because it isn't talked about yet. We are open. We are not volatile. We never say that anybody isn't welcome. The only things MRAs are ever against are violent speech or behavior, sexist positions in life, and people who do not allow counterarguments to previously assumed perspectives on the world we live in. So, as along as you aren't close-minded, violent, or sexist, MRAs (true, not troll) welcome you with open arms.

Underfolder · 2014-06-23T03:25:23+00:00

The MRM and feminism have much different approaches to social problems. Feminism views all social problems as class-based. All problems faced by a women (or LGBT person) is ultimately due to discrimination by men (or heterosexuals). There is an a priori conclusion that sexism (or homophobia) is the problem and feminism is the solution.

The Men's Rights Movement views social problems as violations of individual rights. The MRM views people as fundamentally equal and without inherent membership in a class. There are problems people face because of their sex (or orientation) but these are issues that effect them differently than problems they face for being, for example, poor or disabled. Discrimination based on sex and based on sexual orientation are sufficiently different that trying to fit all problems to fit the same template is unlikely to help anybody. The Men's Rights Movement is not always best equipped to deal with LGBT issues. Not because these are not important issues, but because they are different issue. Of course certain gay (as in male homosexual) issues are inherently Men's Rights Issues. Even if I myself am not gay, stereotypes regarding masculinity still affect me.

In short, it's not that the MRM doesn't care about LGBT issues, it's that LGBT advocacy produces better results for LGBT issues. Many MHRAs are also active LGBT advocates.

FallingSnowAngel · 2014-06-22T22:01:15+00:00

Feminists appropriate others peoples struggles, but its ultimately for the benefit of wealthy white women.

Poperiarchy · 2014-06-22T22:34:04+00:00

As a man who sympathises with both the terrible conditions in Darfur and the endangered status sea turtles why are we not taking the high ground on these issues as well?

Pecanpig · 2014-06-23T01:43:10+00:00

No, I won't support the hijacking of another movement for political reasons.

nigglereddit · 2014-06-22T22:27:37+00:00

I rarely if ever see MRA's actively fighting against the alienation of LGBT men in male groups, and we all know this still exists, to varying extents.

You probably don't see us fighting for the establishment of a Basque state either. Does that mean we're all against it? No. Just because you have a pet cause - and I do too - doesn't mean everyone else has to support it or be branded an enemy and a traitor.

I have no interest in being branded anti gay rights by you or anyone else just because I haven't bowed down and given you my full time support. What I support outside this forum is actually none of your business.

Pecanpig · 2014-06-22T22:05:10+00:00

Have you ever heard of TERFs?

guywithaccount · 2014-06-22T23:39:35+00:00

Feminists are the ones who are actively fighting for and representing LGBT's.

Well, feminists are actively appropriating LGBTs' struggle. Fighting for and representing them? Depends which feminists you're talking about, and which LGBTs you're talking about.

Do we not consider the particular struggles and injustices that men of that community have to deal with to be our own?

Sure we do.

For example, I rarely if ever see MRA's actively fighting against the alienation of LGBT men in male groups, and we all know this still exists, to varying extents.

Care to elaborate?

Why are feminists allowed the moral high-ground on this matter?

I don't really see appropriation as putting them on a moral high ground.

MRSPArchiver · 2014-06-22T21:44:41+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

Shibacat · 2014-06-22T22:30:16+00:00

I think this question can be developed into a really robust dialogue.

As of now, there are no real direct answers to your question.

The impression that I get is that gay men (bisexual men, trans men, intersexed presenting as men) do not have a primary stake in the discussions. It's a little discouraging, as a matter of fact.

ThePigmanAgain · 2014-06-23T00:05:41+00:00

Who is "we," stranger?

2014-06-22T21:46:29+00:00

Title	Man with sympathy for both MRA's and Feminists here. My one comment/criticism of the MRA movement.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	0
Comments	87
Date	June 22, 2014 9:44 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/28tli8/man_with_sympathy_for_both_mras_and_feminists/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/man-with-sympathy-for-both-mras-and-feminists-here.998869 https://theredarchive.com/post/998869

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