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Does MGTOW actually solve anything?

August 13, 2022
10 upvotes

Does the MGTOW movement actually solve anything? Does giving up women as an excuse to be apathetic actually brings you to a better understanding of yourself. Is there anything to aspire for beyond Sex dolls and Masturbation or should we just be nihilistic? Do you feel empty after a self inflicted orgasm or are you proud of that accomplishment?

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Post Information
Title Does MGTOW actually solve anything?
Author gilamonster69
Upvotes 10
Comments 41
Date August 13, 2022 4:17 PM UTC (3 months ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/does-mgtow-actually-solve-anything.1139683
https://theredarchive.com/post/1139683
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/wnia70/does_mgtow_actually_solve_anything/
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Comments

[–]HodgekinWhitePill 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

To answer your question, yes mgtow does solve something. I'm a firm believer that you should punish bad behavior. If women in the west are acting foolish, men need to stop given these women what they want, access to our resource and attention.

Beta males/simps are the worst. They collectively incentivize the worst behaviors in women by showering them with money and attention. If you want to shame a group of men, you should shame betas/simps.

[–]gilamonster69[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The issue is, they don’t need us because they got daddy government to provide for them. From that standpoint MGTOW is a lost battle.

Beta males and simps are dishonest!! MGTOW is not a real solution it is just pushing the divide further

[–]HodgekinWhitePill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The issue is, they don’t need us because they got daddy government to provide for them. From tot standpoint MGTOW is a battle.

This is half true. Like what sort of lifestyle would a woman have if she solely relied on the government? She may get enough to eat and have a decent place to live. But she ain't going to have nice outings, a nice car or frivolous other items. Also government doesn't provide male attention. That's all given by beta simps.

Beta males and simps are dishonest!! MGTOW is not a real solution it is just pushing the divide further

We gotta break this down. Are you saying all MGTOW are beta simps? And what do you mean by dishonest? Can you elaborate?

MGTOW is not a real solution it is just pushing the divide further

Feminism ideology is predicated on female independence from a man. Would you agree that feminism is dividing male and female relations?

Then I would ask, what came first? Feminism or Mgtow? The way I see it, Mgtow is an obvious reaction to Feminism.

"Women need a man like a fish needs a bicycle." Haha. Great joke. Oh wait? You actually mean it? Oh. Okay. I'll just go my own way then. Hence Mgtow.

What I don't understand, is why can't you accept that there's a duality or variance within a group. I can say, there's some feminist that genuinely care for equality, and there's some that want all men to die. It's a spectrum.

Mgtow is much the same. There's some that are beta losers. And there's some that genuinely walked away.

You're out here arguing that all mgtow are beta losers and there's no point of mgtow even existing. Sure. That just shows how ignorant you are.

[–]TriggurWarning 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think there's a great deal to being a human being beyond obsession with sex. Being mgtow is about recognizing that women are more trouble than they're worth. If I fancy going to climb a mountain or going to vegas, I just go, and nobody is hassling me about this or that. If you can't be happy on your own for at least a little while, then you shouldn't be using other people as a crutch to fill that void.

[–]TheRedPillRipperRedPill 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I just go

Man that’s the life. We used to hit the casinos every other weekend, with a gang of us. We’d get a few penthouses, heaps of drinks; and into it. My besties and I now catch up once a month, for dinner and drinks. They get smashed(I usually drive), hit the casino, then spend the early hours talking about how we can change the world.

I mean it’s nice to have grown, and changed. Families, and especially the fulfilment is incomparable. Those hard partying days of our teens, and early twenties however, have certainly left their mark.

If ever my wife and I divorce, that aspect of “freedom”; will certainly be beneficial.

Godspeed and good luck!

[–]TriggurWarning 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I hope your wife knows she has a good man. Godspeed!

[–]gilamonster69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good men are hard to come by. I hope your marriage last

[–]Ambassadior 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well life has been peaceful in comparison to the drama when I was actively dating. I don't hate women it's just better for me to go my own way. The MGTOW sub was nice because it was a place where other people resonated with my decision in comparison to my environment where everyone expects me to date.

When you date someone it's easy to neglect your hobbies and self improvement, so taking that time to focus on myself again was nice. I'm proud of myself more than when I was seeking validation from women, and paradoxically, that seems to get me more validation from them.

[–]gilamonster69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

From the way i look at it a woman is there to compliment your life, the feminist movement ABC’s the establishment has brainwashed these women into thinking that they can get more out of life at the expense of the nuclear family. You do you and the woman in your life is suppose to support you.

[–]VasiliyZaitzev 4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I am not MGTOW, but it solves a lot of problems for guys willing to make that trade. First, everything gets way easier economically, because there is no need to provide for anyone but oneself. Don't need a big house in the 'burbs in the right school district if you aren't having kids. If you want to drive a beater car, that's fine. And you only need one. You can live super cheap.

Want to travel? You can go at any time. Especially if you work in the less-formal economy outside of CorporateLand. You don't have to think about a career. Work and save, quit, visit Europe for a month, come back, work some more, save some more, later rinse repeat.

MGTOW men may also avoid educational debt: Once you decide (or lose hope) about having a wife and family, suddenly you don't need to spend a lot of money on education or put a lot of effort into improving your financial situation. To wit:

The fall of men in the workplace is widely regarded by economists as one of the nation’s most important and puzzling trends. While men, on average, still earn more than women, the gap between them has narrowed considerably, particularly among more recent entrants to the labor force...Women have responded exactly as economists would have predicted, by going to college in record numbers. Men, mysteriously, have not. “I think the greatest, most astonishing fact that I am aware of in social science right now is that women have been able to hear the labor market screaming out ‘You need more education’ and have been able to respond to that, and men have not,” said Michael Greenstone, an M.I.T. economics professor who was not involved in Professor Autor’s work. “And it’s very, very scary for economists because people should be responding to price signals. And men are not. It’s a fact in need of an explanation.”

Men now have a substantial negative incentive for marrying--particularly when they no longer have to enter into a marriage to obtain ready access to sex--and it would seem that many of them have factored that into their planning. Wives and children are expensive; once once decides to forgo them, one need not go out into the world with the idea that one must accrue income and assets sufficient to support a family. One can eat (and live) far more cheaply than two, or four or five.

[–]TriggurWarning 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Men are generally lower in agreeableness, but disagreeableness has it's advantages. If men are being fucked over by society, they're just going to rebel and tell you to go fuck yourself. The corporate machine really loves women in particular, because they generally do as they're told. Oh, we're gonna need you to work late tonight and every night thereafter for a while until we catch up around here... yeah, no. If you look at male median income it has stagnated since the 1970's. This fact has not gone unnoticed by the plebs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WXo1aFb8MY

[–]IrrungenWirrungen 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

What are you talking about?

Men are being fucked over by society all the time and they don’t do shit against it. 🤷

[–]TriggurWarning 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Did you not read everything above? Men are disengaging from society in a big way.

[–]IrrungenWirrungen 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yep, I read it. It’s still not enough to cry about it.

I was answering you saying men will tell others to f off and will rebel if they feel mistreated. It’s just bullshit.

“Oh, we're gonna need you to work late tonight and every night thereafter for a while until we catch up around here...”

Guess who says “yes sir!” almost every time? -> Men.

But it’s logical to me that men without a potential mate (and family) lack motivation to earn a lot of money. Because why would they?

They have their delivery services, video games and porn.

[–]VasiliyZaitzev 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The corporate machine really loves women in particular, because they generally do as they're told.

^ Factual. The one down side to young women is they get pregnant (or at least they used to) so that explains the "Hey will pay up to $4k for your out of state abortion!" because that's way cheaper than a kid in terms of the company's insurance premiums. And they want her back at work on Monday.

[–]Admirable_Bee_8714 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also I suspect Maternity leave with a 100% salary paid to someone not doing work for a month or two is far more expensive than shelling out 4k for an abortion

[–]Liberated_Asexual 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Life is nihilistic to those who aren't religious regardless of MGTOW. We're just a bunch of hairless apes trying to make a buck.

[–]tired_hillbilly 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Do you feel empty after a self inflicted orgasm or are you proud of that accomplishment?

FRAME CHALLENGE: The implication here is that an orgasm someone else gave you should make you proud, which I don't agree with.

I admit this analogy is a little far out, but I think it can be demonstrative. You ever play Halo or another FPS online? In objective-based game-modes like capture the flag, there's often one or more self-absorbed players who just want to rack up a really high kill/death ratio. They don't care about winning the game, they just get off on watching their personal stats go up. The scoreboard is a heuristic way to see how good you're doing for your team, but focusing entirely on that is counter-productive. You avoid risking your own stats even if the reward for the whole team is much larger.

That's what this focus on orgasms is like. Masturbating and casual sex are both like the statpadder ignoring the actual point of the game in deference to the thing that feels good. Orgasms feel so good because they're trying to get you to procreate and to bond with the person you procreated with so you can raise the best off-spring. They're a heuristic way to see how good you're doing at passing your genes on, but they're not the point of sex any more than K/D ratio is the point of Capture the Flag.

MGTOW doesn't solve the loneliness problem, but neither does casual sex.

[–]SantarpiosPizza 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

MGTOW is just about cope IMO.

[–]gilamonster69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly! whether it is using your body or someone else’s body, to achieve your orgasm, you would feel empty inside. What s next after the short lived happiness? And just like a drug addict you’ll look for your next hit. Like a hedonist threadmill.

[–]TryLambda 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

MGTOW has saved thousands of mens lives….

[–]gilamonster69[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Saved them? Just like feminism, it has saved them from starting and raising a family.

[–]TryLambda 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

MGTOW is not like murderous Feminism...

MGTOW does not promote killing unborn babies..

MGTOW does not want to kill all men...

and yes Feminism has destroyed the family unit....

Believe it or not, married MGTOW's exist too, and they are able to have families

[–]IrrungenWirrungen 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hopefully!

[–]Ihatereeddiitt 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It serves as a mechanism for undesirable men to cope with their undesirability to women by pretending it was they who made the choice to avoid women, not the other way around. It protects their egos. If these Men Sent Their Own Way actually didn't care about women there wouldn't be a whole movement proclaiming it.

[–]Admirable_Bee_8714 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Except it isn't really a movement in any traditional sense. In fact most MGTOW men have likely never even heard of the MGTOW acronym. I know I didn't until about a year ago and I've been living this lifestyle for the last decade since I turned 27.

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW) 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

on a systemic level? no, most men are not and cannot be mgtow. feminism thrives under male passivity.

individually? sure if you have enough wealth to subvene to your desires.

[–]Admirable_Bee_8714 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Actually feminism thrives under male support. Walk away from the plantation and what the whining even though what you are doing has nothing to do with them.

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW) 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

sure but when you and i aren't even speaking up against it, those billions of lobbyist dollars are flowing in and out of NGOs and their brain sludge reaches our social circles

[–]Admirable_Bee_8714 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Speaking out against it does nothing. Why? Because at the end of the day Feminism is a billion dollar industry. Literally will take the withdrawal of labor and participation of the majority of males, for society to give a fuck.

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW) 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

it might break the institutions that uphold feminism but breaking down society would harm low status men much more than women

[–]classicliberal1 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is there anything to aspire for beyond Sex dolls and Masturbation or should we just be nihilistic? Do you feel empty after a self inflicted orgasm or are you proud of that accomplishment?

I never understood people's obsession with sex and orgasms. Yeah I get that young men are young, dumb, and full of cum, but life is far more than a three second high. Most satisfaction in life has nothing to do with sex and orgasming. Seems to me that most men waste a significant portion of their life chasing something that is way overvalued.

[–]PabloEscoba 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

MGTOW has no agenda. Its not attempting to solve anything . Most men do a cost-benefit exercise and arrive at the conclusion thats its better to just do your own own thing. Focus on your own goals and happiness.

[–]gilamonster69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Regarding your question about “other” things. I see it as women see the trade off as worthy. About the “male attention” part…. This is where you and i are in agreement about the beta males and Simps.

No i am not saying that all MGTOWS are Beta Simps. Dishonest being they are overly agreeable to women even sacrificing their sincerity to get some pussy.

I would agree with you that feminism is also dividing relationships. But, as men we should’ve said no in the first place. The MGTOW movement is too little too late.

[–]Admirable_Bee_8714 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can't speak for every MGTOW, but for me I have a peaceful home and the freedom to do whatever I want, when I want. Man can't ask for anything more than that. The beauty in the US is as a man you don't need a crap ton of money to live a content life provided you know how to manage your money.

[–]classicliberal1 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Does the MGTOW movement actually solve anything?

Divorce. Mgtow solves divorce. 100% of people who have gotten divorced, had previously gotten married. Now correlation does not mean causation, but until I see at least one example of a person getting divorced who has not married, I'm going to consider not marrying a pretty good preventative measure for divorce.

[–]gilamonster69[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

What do you think is the reason behind most divorce?

[–]classicliberal1 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't say it's one thing. However, divorce has increased dramatically since the invention of the pill and the subsequent sexual revolution and these divorces are almost always initiated by women; even in same-sex marriages lesbians are far more likely to divorce than gay men or heterosexual couples. So I would say the top causes are as follows.

  1. The more partners a woman has, the more her pair bonding ability is destroyed. The same does not happen to men.
  2. The paradox of choice causes women to be disappointed in whichever decision they make.
  3. There are strong financial incentives for women to divorce, but usually not to stay together.
  4. There is a culture of disposable relationships.
  5. Briffault's Law used to be kept in check by the social stigma of divorce, but now divorce is expected.
  6. Dating apps and social media has made cheating too easy and convenient.

The events that lead to the downfall of marriage were...

  1. 1960 - the pill
  2. 1960s and 1970s the sexual revolution
  3. 1990s the hookup culture
  4. 2000s social media
  5. 2010s dating apps

Each of these events was an instance of the tragedy of the commons creating a race to the bottom which has left most people dissatisfied with dating. Even dating is a misnomer today. Dating used to be a formal then informal way to court and get to know another person before sex. Today dating is a euphemism for sex. Marriage just doesn't work in a mating market so heavily geared towards the short term.

[–]gilamonster69[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What about the official birth of the feminist movement which kickstarted the whole shit!! Remember supply and demand.

[–]classicliberal1 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I follow the Australian model: biology > culture > ideology. Feminism is the ideological manifestation of hypergamy and genocentrism. It's the effect, not the cause.

[–]PabloEscoba -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

MGTOW is not trying to solve anything. You cant solve a society in decline. Go ahead and deal with modern women no one is stopping you buddy

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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