~ archived since 2018 ~

A lighthearted giggle

cakeandcoke

February 16, 2022

78 upvotes

/r/AntiFeminists

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Post Information

Title	A lighthearted giggle
Author	cakeandcoke
Upvotes	78
Comments	56
Date	February 16, 2022 2:04 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AntiFeminists
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/stwowr/a_lighthearted_giggle/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AntiFeminists/a-lighthearted-giggle.1101962 https://theredarchive.com/post/1101962

Comments

[+]thatspositive 28 points29 points30 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[+]Jump1ntheFire 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]czechbabesrock20 12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Brinnstar1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]taytrovert1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I’m not saying what he did was the polite thing to do at all. It was your word choice that got my attention. You said she was “disrespected” and “brutally” rejected by the guy (even after having a plethora of reasons why he didn’t) when there’s people at the store who literally get paid to help customers that she should’ve asked. Did he do the right thing? Probably not. Did he do the wrong thing? Probably not. If this was a 5’2 guy complaining about how embarrassed he was because people don’t help him reach tall stuff this would probably be a meme.

Yes, those examples make sense because those are situations where people are just looking out for each other and no one there is paid to help you. In this situation, there are workers who literally would’ve helped her; regardless, of how a random stranger feels. For that reason, I don’t believe that man brutally disrespected or rejected her for something that was going to get done anyway by the worker in the next aisle. Would I would have help her, yes. Like you said before, he probably had his reasons.

Since the guy isn’t here to explain himself, I’m just giving him some slack the same way we do women who get abortions, whose husbands paternity test who come back negative, who false accuse, who fake domestic violence, who used men for foodie calls, etc.

It’s not fair that every encounter between a man and a woman where a woman is left not flattered , the man is automatically seen as the aggressor. Cut the guy a break and understand that no one owes anyone anything. Even favors are something you are not entitled to. Who knows what kind of day, or life even, that guy has had. That man won’t be painted in a bad light by people on the internet just because he doesn’t help every woman he sees.

[–]Brinnstar1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You said she was “disrespected” and “brutally” rejected by the guy (even after having a plethora of reasons why he didn’t)

She was disrespected and brutally rejected. She was. It doesn't matter why he did it. He may have had very good reasons. He might be undergoing extreme stress. He might be mentally ill. He might be in a hurry. He might be a very nice person most of the time. But his behavior was, indisputably, aggressively antisocial. He disrespected her, and it made her feel bad. That's usually how people feel when you are rude to them for no obvious reason.

when there’s people at the store who literally get paid to help customers that she should’ve asked.

Yes, she could have asked a store employee (maybe, depending on the store). That has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not his behavior was rude. It's not about whether or not she can ultimately get what she wants, it's about the attitude his behavior communicates.

In this situation, there are workers who literally would’ve helped her; regardless, of how a random stranger feels. For that reason, I don’t believe that man brutally disrespected or rejected her

That just isn't the way it works. Social standards don't disappear simply because there are paid employees nearby. The general expectation is that a well-mannered person will be pleasant and helpful to every person they meet, in all locations, at all times. Deviating from this standard without very good reason makes you rude. Refusing to help a stranger with a small and reasonable task is rude. It clearly telegraphs "I don't care about you or your problems or your feelings." That is extremely rude. Even if she ultimately got the thing she wanted, the behavior was still rude.

Since the guy isn’t here to explain himself, I’m just giving him some slack

I'm not criticizing the guy. I'm explaining to you why the woman reacted as she did. You seemed baffled that anybody would be upset by this behavior. I'm explaining why she felt humiliated, not attacking the other person in the equation.

the same way we do women who get abortions, whose husbands paternity test who come back negative, who false accuse, who fake domestic violence, who used men for foodie calls, etc.

...I'm not even going to touch this.

It’s not fair that every encounter between a man and a woman where a woman is left not flattered , the man is automatically seen as the aggressor.

The man wasn't "automatically" the aggressor here, and it's not about flattery. His behavior was rude. If the roles had been reversed, and the woman had done what he did, then her behavior would also have been rude. I don't know why he did what he did, maybe he had good reasons. I am not judging him or criticizing him. I am simply stating a fact. His behavior was objectively rude.

Cut the guy a break

I am not attacking him. I genuinely don't understand why you think I am. I am answering a question that you asked.

and understand that no one owes anyone anything. Even favors are something you are not entitled to.

Well I'm sorry, but in polite society that simply isn't how it works. You do owe people small favors that don't cost you anything, that's the social contract. You don't have to observe this contract — you have every legal right to ignore social convention and behave like a selfish, inconsiderate pig. But if you behave like other people don't matter to you, you will be seen as unmannerly and rude. People won't like you. People will make tweets and reddit posts and blog entries describing your churlish behavior. That is what happens to rude people.

[–]taytrovert1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Okay, I see what's going on. Essentially, we agree that the right thing to do is what you should do, obviously. I also agree that what he did, or didn't do, was indeed objectively rude. I am not arguing against that.

I understand how the world should be, but I also understand how the world really works. Personally, I don't think you should feel entitled to people's kindness because you will be very disappointed at even a simple "no". There are bad people and good people. Nothing about this life, society, and world is perfect and you can't be surprised when it isn't. In a "polite" society, yes everyone cares about your problems and will jump at the opportunity to help you solve them. Unfortunately, I understand that one's own interests, family, goals, etc will supersede a stranger's most of the time. This behavior is seen in most living things period. Domesticated animals, especially dogs, are the only beings you can trust to put you over themselves 99% of the time. Maybe your parents if you've got good ones.

I am also a man, who quite frankly aren't in the position to just trust and believe in fairytales and will most certainly be taken advantage of in this "polite" society.

Like I said, I would've definitely helped her. As a man, I feel no humiliation, discrimination or what not because a random person didn't drop everything they were doing/thinking to help me and play victim on the internet. Not my groove.

[–]Brinnstar1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Personally, I don't think you should feel entitled to people's kindness because you will be very disappointed at even a simple "no".

Well I'm sorry, but that just isn't how human feelings work. If you are needlessly hostile to a stranger, nine times out of ten, that stranger is going to feel hurt or offended. Maybe they shouldn't feel that way, but they will. It's not a sign of entitlement or hypersensitivity or feminine deviousness. It is how most people react to social transgressions. Maybe you personally don't react this way, and in that case you should be aware that you are the vast exception, not the rule.

Nothing about this life, society, and world is perfect and you can't be surprised when it isn't.

She wasn't "surprised". She was hurt. That is a perfectly normal and healthy response to unprovoked rudeness. You seem utterly baffled by a completely predictable emotional response, even while conceding that the man's behavior was uncalled for.

I am also a man, who quite frankly aren't in the position to just trust and believe in fairytales and will most certainly be taken advantage of in this "polite" society.

I'm sorry, are you arguing that this man refused to help this woman because he was afraid of being "taken advantage of"? And that this was a reasonable thing to fear? And that helping strangers equates to "believing in fairy tales"? O_o

As a man, I feel no humiliation, discrimination or what not because a random person didn't drop everything they were doing/thinking to help me and play victim on the internet.

She didn't expect him to "drop everything he was doing", and she didn't "play the victim". She made a reasonable request that was totally within the bounds of acceptable petitions and would have cost the other person very little. The person she asked reacted with needless unpleasantness, and she complained about the unpleasantness of the interaction online. None of this suggests entitlement, weakness, or a victim mentality. Nor does it have anything to do with being a man or a woman. It suggests she is a human being with a normally-calibrated social compass and feelings that can be hurt. I don't understand why you're trying so hard to interpret this woman's behavior in the most uncharitable way possible.

Not my groove.

Just because you wouldn't have responded in this way, doesn't make it a bad or stupid or unacceptable response. People are different, and the world contains a wonderful diversity of emotions, reactions, and perceptions. It is okay for her to have her feelings. It is okay for you to have your feelings. Nobody's done anything wrong here.

[–]taytrovert1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, I don’t know if that man thought he was being taken advantage of, or was arguing that.

I don’t believe he was being hostile. If he respectfully said no, he was being neutral. Didn’t get too involved. Unless he lashed out or said no in a disrespectful tone, then him telling her no, wasn’t an hostile act. Rude, sure. Hostile? We would’ve had to been there to tell. Unless there was some animosity we weren’t told, or the man didn’t express, I don’t believe a stranger not helping you is hostility. Selfish and rude, yes.

I am not arguing that you shouldn’t feel anything at all. I am arguing against the entitlement, or maybe more naivety, that leads to that person feeling offended at all. You simply cannot expect everyone you ever come across to be sincere and “polite” individuals. Everyone should be like that, but that’s not the world we live in. Once we get out of the utopia we dream about and focus on what actually happens, this type of stuff would make more sense for a lot more people.

I do believe there was a certain “shock” that she felt because someone declined her a very basic service, on top of being hurt.

Do good. Be good. Understand that the world does not feel obligated to treat you the same. Bad things happen to good people in this “polite” society for that reason.

I agree that she made a reasonable request, and her reaction was something people would do. I think the disconnect is how you answer these questions: Do you think that man should be demonized for his decision?(Im not saying that’s what you’re doing) If she wasn’t embarrassed, would people view this interaction differently? I’m sure there’s a woman or other people he loves that he would climb mountains for. To this guy, this woman wasn’t even worth his tippy toes. Unfortunately, he had a more important agenda that we’ll never know because he isn’t here to explain himself. Since we don’t know what that agenda is, he was simply rude in that instance and nothing else.

However, I don’t disagree with the ability to determine what to do with your body; regardless of what people feel. The guy was fully within his right to do whatever he wanted to do.

Dude probably had some sort of injury that he didn’t care to explain to a stranger. You never know.

[–]Brinnstar1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don’t believe he was being hostile. If he respectfully said no, he was being neutral.

He was being hostile. Declining a polite request is hostility. It violates the social contract.

Rude, sure. Hostile? We would’ve had to been there to tell.

Rudeness is hostility. When you are rude to somebody, you make it clear that their feelings are of no importance to you. That's hostility.

I am not arguing that you shouldn’t feel anything at all. I am arguing against the entitlement, or maybe more naivety, that leads to that person feeling offended at all.

Making polite requests of strangers is not entitlement. It is not naivety. It is entirely within the bounds of common and acceptable behavior. She did nothing wrong by asking a stranger for help when she found herself in a bind. The rules of polite engagement do require him to help her. She is socially entitled to this. It's not a woman thing. It's not a feminism thing. It's a politeness thing.

You simply cannot expect everyone you ever come across to be sincere and “polite” individuals.

You seem really invested in this narrative that this woman is an air-headed babe in the woods, some unsullied innocent who's never experienced a drop of adversity, as though expecting politeness from strangers is the mark of extreme privilege. Expecting politeness from strangers is the norm in most developed countries. In most parts of North America (where I'm assuming this woman lives) people are generally friendly to strangers. In most part of North America, when you ask a stranger for an inconsequential favor, they will generally oblige. In the town where I live, ninety-nine people out of a hundred would have helped this woman. She isn't weak, or naive, or stupid for expecting help. She has correctly ascertained the average person on the street in her part of the world to be generally pleasant and helpful.

Do good. Be good. Understand that the world does not feel obligated to treat you the same.

You give people the benefit of the doubt until they don't deserve it any more. You assume that people are polite until they prove themselves to be impolite. That is the social code. Her expectations were perfectly reasonable.

Do you think that man should be demonized for his decision?

No, I don't. And he isn't being demonized. He did something rude, and that's the only thing we know about him. Maybe this behavior is out of character. Maybe it's completely typical. We just don't know.

The man doesn't deserve criticism, but the behavior does. The behavior is rude. The man may or may not be. The woman isn't a spoiled man-hating bitch for pointing out that his behavior is rude.

Since we don’t know what that agenda is, he was simply rude in that instance and nothing else.

Yes, he was rude. That's all the woman in the Tweet was saying. That a man was rude to her. This got you pretty irate for some reason. It kind of seems like a woman criticizing a man's behavior for any reason is a trigger for you, even when the criticism is clearly warranted.

However, I don’t disagree with the ability to determine what to do with your body; regardless of what people feel. The guy was fully within his right to do whatever he wanted to do.

Dude, nobody is trying to deprive this man of his bodily autonomy. I'm not trying to deprive him of his rights. She isn't trying to deprive him of his rights. He has every legal right to behave obnoxiously. But it isn't misandry to point out that his behavior is obnoxious. You're making this into an oppression thing, and it really isn't that. It's one solitary man being a jerk, and one solitary woman talking about it. He is perfectly within his rights to be rude, and she is perfectly within her rights to point out that he's being rude.

Dude probably had some sort of injury that he didn’t care to explain to a stranger. You never know.

Like I said, I am not criticizing this man. You really want me to be for some reason, but I'm not.

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