Attention&Drama

Hoosierdaddy1964 · 2020-09-16T20:52:55+00:00

The claims are bullshit. I know plenty of guys who are total drama queens. It's just another stereotype.

imhereforthemeta · 2020-09-16T21:52:29+00:00

I think that we think a lot about how women relate to drama (which is real, relevant, etc) but we actually neglect how this plays out with guys.

This is hard to quantify "study wise" but I will drop this link if anyone is interested.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886915006327

Drama and attention manifest in men in interesting ways. Among them:

Engaging in politics posts/social posts or listening to political pundits, or high drama pundit types like Joe Rogan or Ben Shapiro who start shit and are argumentative.
Engaging with various pissing contests with other men- be it in the physical, yelling things while playing videogames, trolling online (the entire 4chan family or getting in Reddit arguments), etc.
Anecdotally, I see this a lot. Men will be upset with their friends but don't "want to cause drama" so they will stew in it instead of talking and lash out in different ways. Male friendship fights are interesting.
Men who commit violent crime are engaging in dramatic, explosive, or attention seeking behavior.
"Players" and guys who go out looking for women to sleep with/engage with regularly.
Risky behavior more associated with men- driving cars aggressively/fast for example.
Office politics, I learned so much about men also being gossipy because of office politics

I think that "gossip" and "drama" or attention seeking behavior can be treated rather differently. That isn't to say that some of these are not behaviors women can have, but I think we tend to fem code dramatic and attention seeking behavior without considering the masculine alternatives in our every day life. We are a little less trained as people to pay attention to the ways men are dramatic and attention seeking, and it's more common to stereotype men as "chill" or "down to earth" even when these behaviors are exhibited.

TLDR: Bias.

TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK · 2020-09-16T20:29:24+00:00

It's dumb shit like this that makes me realize TRP is for 23 year old boys, by 23 year old boys.

zoemondo · 2020-09-16T22:26:33+00:00

Pretty much everyone in their teens and early 20s is involved in too much drama. Sounds like whoever came up with that quote has only ever encountered 15 year old girls and bases their opinion of all women on that.

tomowudi · 2020-09-16T22:43:59+00:00

Attention and Drama. Redpillers attribute these traits to women because they lack self-esteem.

They are online talking about how much women love drama - as a tool to get attention in the form of argument or validation, right? Do you not see the irony of this? They aren't COMPLAINING ONLINE because they want to be ignored. What you complain about, from the perspective of a listener... isn't that likely to be considered a form of "drama"?
They are complaining that women want attention... to who and for what purpose? ;-)
The circumstances they describe where women are being attention-seeking are largely irrelevant. Toddlers are ALSO attention-seeking and yet people without children aren't gathering in communities to hate on toddlers because of this. Because attention-seeking behavior is not a problem unless you are COMPETING for attention. Redpillers feel like they are in competition with women, and you don't put down the competition if you ACTUALLY feel superior. You put down the competition when you feel like you are LOSING, or if you are a shitty, narcissistic "winner".
Redpillers complain about how terrible women are, to the extent of never wanting to be around them. That IS needless drama. I don't like capers - I think they taste disgusting. You know why I don't complain about capers?
Because I don't buy them, I don't order them in my food, and if they are an option for me to take, I opt-out. I don't spend time talking or thinking or avoiding capers because I'm not being chased around by some ahole trying to cram them down my throat.
If Redpillers were serious about complaining about how terrible women were... they would be incels. And if Incels were actually happy being incels, they would never talk about women ever because they wouldn't need to.

No - these aholes are just unhappy with how uncomfortable they are around women. They blame women for THEIR discomfort, which stems from their fear of being rejected.

They feel inadequate, and every time they FEAR they are being rejected - because sometimes what they think is rejection is merely normal, innocuous, disagreement - they immediately gravitate towards an anger (fight) response to that fear by BLAMING WOMEN for their discomfort with the fear of rejection.

Why?

Because redpillers and incels are OBSESSED with the idea that masculinity is the foundation of what it means to be a man, and they have a fucked up idea about what both masculinity and "manliness" actually are. They are like children (I mean that in the sense that they are emotionally/developmentally delayed/immature) who fantasize about being a cowboy or a fireman or a superhero. They just do not have a realistic understanding of what "being a man" means... or meant.

Being a man meant something vital and important a few hundred years ago, before the Internet and the Printing Press changed the "size" of the world we live in. With information being able to travel across the globe increasingly faster, the small roles, identities, and world views that our forefathers believe described all of reality have become increasingly useless. Yes, women are smaller and weaker.... and yes, women are also fearsome, calculating, and sometimes ruthless warriors and assassins. And some women were born with penises because holy fuck, genetics is a thing and baby-delivering storks from Jesus actually don't exist.

So the "wisdom" of the past might include nice-sounding ideas like, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you,"...

But it also includes gems like, "Use all 5 of your senses," when we actually have like 20 senses, maybe more.

So while young people might figure out a lot of great new shit, that's no guarantee it is wise...

Being old doesn't guarantee wisdom either. Just increases the odds.

Likewise, the "old school" definition of "manliness" is... outdated. Oh, there are some great nuggets in there, but it's divorced from our actual understanding of biology, intelligence, and morality.

So if you want to define manliness and masculinity by the same definition used by people who used leeches to treat the bubonic plague...

Have at it.

But there are better ways to form your identity, and you don't have to accept ANYONE'S idea of manliness honestly. You just have to like who YOU are, and beyond that...

Fuck worrying about the Redpill my dude. Fuck being afraid that a girl might reject you. She might, she might not.

But if she does, she is saving you precious, precious time that you could be spending with someone that likes you enough to want to help you be the best version of yourself.

Those are the only people - not guys or girls but PEOPLE - that fucking matter. People who like you as you are, admire who you want to be, and are willing to be honest with you regarding when they think you are missing the target you are aiming for. The BEST people - partner or friend - are the people who trust that you can handle the uncomfortable truth that they offer for your benefit.

Man or woman, they exist, and they aren't complaining about women, whining about drama, or bemoaning to a crowd of strangers online about how attention-seeking women are.

Circuit_Strike · 2020-09-16T21:42:42+00:00

Maybe younger women have a lot of those toxic attention seeking characteristics. I definitely knew a few when I was in highschool through my mid to late 20s. But if you're not like them it's also difficult to have a friendship with them. Then years later it seems like most I know either grew out of it or is considered a hot mess that no one ever talks to anymore because those people are toxic and exhausting.

Also there's probably not as many as you think. I wanted attention as a young woman. So I would post selfies and wanted to be an online model, etc. But I definitely didn't create or like drama/conflict for conflict's sake. And honestly what's wrong with wanting to be seen and praised for being attractive? As long as there's balance and you don't put too much stock in it.

Honestly there are a lot of men like this too: dramatic and seeking attention from women all the time. Of the two main dramatic people in my life when I went to college one was female and one was male. My male friend was interested in being poly, which is fine and I decided to do the FWB thing with him. But even though he was pursuing other women he got angry at me for seeing other guys. Like when I wasn't available to hang out with him because I was with another guy he would send passive aggressive messages to me and even showed up at my place one time to take back a laptop he was lending me because I had another guy over that wasn't him.

That's just one example my ex needed attention from women and would keep them on the hook in case we ever broke up. He would also help people out with things (like go out of his way to help someone having car trouble or computer trouble) but then he would post about the good thing he did immediately on social media.

But despite all the examples we can think of guys doing that kind of thing, there's no stereotype of the "attention seeking" guy.

I think the bad boy thing is possibly part biology: wanting a badass that could protect you. But I also think it's because of pop culture. Since at least the 50s bad boys have been built up as sex symbols in movies and TV. It's usually a woman that can "make them good". Luckily that's changing a bit, it was very problematic.

But also as a culture I think we're attracted to drama and danger. So most of us at least have a phase being or being attracted to one of those stereotypes.

chloapsoap · 2020-09-16T22:29:43+00:00

do you think women generally are such ‘attention whores’ as the redpill claims?

Generally, no, Some are and some aren’t. I’m personally a total hermit with zero social media accounts (unless Reddit qualifies) and I haven’t taken a selfie since high school. Everything about my experience suggests this is BS

do women like to start drama?

I certainly don’t. In fact, I’m usually the one playing mediator in my friend groups. Again, some women like to start drama and some don’t. I don’t think it’s a gender thing as much as a personality thing. Men can be drama queens too, you know

do women start to feel down when they dont get enough attention?

I mean, don’t we all? This isn’t a novel concept that’s unique to women. Everyone likes to be praised and feel respected. Anyone would start to feel a bit down if they were denied this. Pretending this is exclusively a feminine quality is pretty callous

why do women actually like ‘bad boys’?

Probably a lot of different reasons. Some people romanticize the idea of solving someone else’s personal problems. Some people grew up in abusive environments, so it’s the only thing they know. Some people are just immature. But I don’t think this is applicable to a majority of women. I know plenty of women who are in stable long-term relationships with men who are sensitive and affectionate (myself included).

ladydisdain727 · 2020-09-16T23:23:17+00:00

No, this description this description doesn’t fit 99% of real people, or specific to women. It sounds more like television characters. Also, the concept of the ‘bad boy’ doesn’t exist in adulthood.

KurkTheMagnificent · 2020-09-17T05:27:59+00:00

Emotionally immature/unstable people it applies to.

Swordfish1762 · 2020-09-17T11:40:26+00:00

Red Pill Men are the ultimate Drama Queens.

RageStreak · 2020-09-17T23:18:29+00:00

“Women love attention from as meny boys as they can get, they need external validation and to feel special.”

This from an online community obsessed with the opposite sex and racking up body count?

TRP wants to attribute all human foibles to “Women” exclusively. Everyone at some point craves attention and wants validation from the opposite sex.

chloapsoap · 2020-09-16T20:47:59+00:00

I personally hate both, and girls involved in too much drama and that act dumb for attention aren’t well considered among ”real/normal” Women. But yea, I agree that most girls do love attention and drama, and I’ve heard of girls that just start drama to “spice up the relationship” because “it was getting boring”... Guys this is unacceptable and you should never put up with this type of women, I cant even deal with them and I’m a women, I know that these girls are deeply empty and insecure, and don’t have any hobbies or interests other than liking gossip and being annoying lol.

I’m not too sure why we like bad boys, I feel like it’s the idea of making him a better men, or the thrill of it, or maybe even dating potential idk... just sad, everyone seems to call any man that doesn’t behave like an asshole (sorry for the expression lol( a simp... sad

defo18 · 2020-09-16T21:02:59+00:00

I'm from the hood and my ex and a lot of other girls I've tried to mess wit included have exactly have this intimate to the point where they don't really want love or dating they just want attention and bragging rights and status

I don't like the red pill either but they have that part spot on is that a lot of girls whether they know or not do contribute to the whole status-seeking culture.

Most men are homeless and in my city the most people I see walking into feet are men.

At the same time not every girl is like that but there are a whole lot who are and of course they would be because that's how the culture has raised them.

chloapsoap · 2020-09-16T20:41:55+00:00

Hi! So just my opinion here (I’m a woman). I get why some women are attracted to bad boys, but it’s hard to explain. I think it’s because we are biologically wired to get with the strongest, most confident men. For women’s safety and later on also the kids. Being safe and having stronger, smarter kids is better for survival of the species (and your own genes). Just like a lot of men are so attracted to hips, boobs,... biologically they show fertility. It’s how a lot of us are wired!

Being attracted to bad boys is kind of the same as really liking men in a uniform. A man in uniform just comes across as strong and confident. Able to provide safety. So to me it’s a biological thing.

About the drama and attention, every human needs attention? Not just women right? We all crave validation and we all want to feel special. There will be women out there that just can’t get enough attention and want it from all the wrong people in all the wrong ways, but I’m sorry to say, behind all that they’re probably very lonely and/or insecure.

The drama is another thing tho. I have experienced that yes, in bad or toxic relationships I’d rather have drama and negative attention than no attention at all. But that’s just a very very bad relationship. When I have a loving, meaningful relationship, I will avoid drama at all costs.

Thanks for reading all this, it’s hard to explain when English is not my native language :)

Title	Attention&Drama
Author	RoseAvara
Upvotes	0
Comments	42
Date	September 16, 2020 8:09 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/iu3jsg/attentiondrama/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/attentiondrama.260745 https://theredarchive.com/post/260745

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