I'm never going to break my misogyny

ewhetstone · 2014-11-27T15:03:09+00:00

I second the advice to stay away from women for the moment, with one exception: older women you're not attracted to, preferably with some interest in common. Go volunteer at the food bank or homeless shelter or something and find a woman you can talk to without resenting so you can start seeing them as people. Right now you seem incapable of seeing them as anything but a privileged, undifferentiated mass. If you have a fifty-year-old female friend, maybe that'll help.

FixinThePlanet · 2014-11-27T11:23:27+00:00

Do you really want to stop hating women or do you just want to stop being single? If you want to stop hating women you might want to not care about dating first.

pseudoseriousness · 2014-12-03T14:45:54+00:00

Hey, I've got another perspective to offer you. I'm a nerdy, 26 year old white girl with social anxiety. We seem pretty similar. I'm also on OkCupid, and I know you're right about women getting tons of messages and guys often getting no response. When I message women, I generally get no response, too; getting more messages means you often don't reply to all of them. When I message guys, I've often gotten negative responses ("hey, not interested, sorry"), but I think the the lack of a full inbox makes them actually have the time/effort to want to spend on sending that negative, rather than nothing at all.

And, I've been interested in guys that weren't interested back. I've tried to date a few people on there that, hey, just weren't that into me. Especially after a date or two, that's a bummer. It can be hard to not take it personally, but it isn't personal, really; there are tons of people out there and I'm not interested in most of them, so it's no surprise that some aren't interested in me, either. Chasing isn't an exclusively male thing, and women get rejected, too. There's less social pressure for us to be the first-move ones, which makes it easier, but when we are, it probably ends in failure about as often. But it's not a market.

I find that when I feel like people are treating it as a market or me as a commodity, I'm waaaay less interested. There are people who like that dynamic, I'm sure, but if you don't, then don't play into it. Approach women who you think are interesting people that you'd like to spend time with, and you'll end up spending time with people you are actually interested in. If you set out trying to "obtain" or "get" rather than trying to have a mutually enjoyable experience with someone (be it just chatting or anything else), then thinking in those terms will corner you into really specific ways to see successes/failures/etc. Your goals determine how you perceive everything. If you're sick of the market perception, stop building a market in your mind. For example,

Tired of jerking off alone in my room.

That makes it sound like "obtaining" is what you want. If not, try rephrasing. You're treating women as commodities when you do that.

I got nothing about feeling insecure about your partners having had previous partners. I have no idea why that's a problem. Can't relate. You're on your own for that one.

And finally, just a bit of a rant:

I actually have to work on becoming a valuable human being before anyone wants me.

OF COURSE YOU DO. No one wants to be around shitty people, and yeah, that's true for shitty women, too. r/redpill is full of comments about who's only good enough to "pump and dump," and the women you say are getting attention for just having a vagina are getting THAT kind of attention. Is that what you want? People to be like "yeah, he's a shitty guy so I don't actually like him, but hey, he's got a dick, so I'll use him for sex"? I doubt it. You want to be valued. Men AND women only get that if they meet some basic human decency levels. That's not a unique burden on men. That entire subreddit spends like half of it's time pointing out how they shouldn't respect women unless they actually earn it by being the kind of person they want to have around.

*edited to remove the angry face that messed up the formatting of the last paragraph.

iquanaelephantbear · 2014-11-27T05:11:48+00:00

Hey! So, as a lady I thought I'd throw out somethings that I hope will help.

It seems that maybe you are basing a lot of your value on how you are desired by the opposite sex. Women go through this too, and yes it is different. I recommend just not caring anymore. It's the solution most women arrive at eventually too, and let me tell you why.

For girls yes we get validation as sexual beings but it's only that part of ourselves that feels validated. Eventually this gets old for pretty much everyone, even some of the most shallow among us. It's such an empty, lonely feeling.

When we're younger we think we like being validated in this fashion because we haven't learned how exhausting and limiting it is. We don't realize that all of the space these people are taking up with opinions on our appearance means that they aren't thinking about how thoughtful, smart, or kind we are.

Or maybe we are a woman who feels so very ugly she doesn't notice the attention, if she is getting any at all.

Whether we feel pretty or not - we don't feel valuable. We feel disposable. Sure, you might like looking at us but that can be replicated with a decent internet connection and a google image search. When we place so much emphasis on how our sexuality is perceived by those we desire it never goes well. Not for anyone, man or woman or martian.

This is what I've come to think; sexuality is deeply personal. All that matters is that you like what you like and you find healthy ways to express that with someone/s that can satisfy you. I know that's a lot because you have to get to a point where you can communicate what you want and find someone/s that also want that.

First, you have to feel handsome because you have a miraculous, living, breathing body. You totally have to get more calm/collected in social situations. This gets easier when you care less about all the noise. Promise.

Appreciate yourself regardless of anyone else's opinion and you'll be a lot closer to happiness.

Also, one more thing - those "100's" of messages women get on dating sites are terrible. I don't know what it's like to be a man but I can't imagine anyone wanting to get those. They are frequently degrading, sometimes threatening, or even worse. I know it's frustrating to not get responses, but it's also frustrating to be overwhelmed with dick pics.

I don't know if this addressed what you are going through, but I hope so. If you're American I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving. If not, happy Thursday. :)

Cheers!

CynicLibrarian · 2014-11-27T02:42:08+00:00

I feel that THIS type of suffering is uniquely male, and that's why I'm a misogynist. women will ALWAYS be desired because men put vaginas on a pedestal, whereas I actually have to work on becoming a valuable human being before anyone wants me.

Would you enter into a relationship with a desperate, insecure and socially awkward girl who resented you just because you have balls? Do you really think these woman have men throwing themselves at them?

Understand that most women spend much, much more time on their appearance trying to find men than you do trying to find women. It may seem like they just magically seem attractive to you because you aren't familiar with what they go through to project this appearance.

Derptron5K · 2014-12-07T04:28:51+00:00

Ok, I'm going to try a little armchair psychology here. I have a pretty good feeling about it.

I don't think you hate women. I think you hate yourself. You think you're undesirable and unrelatable. Every time you engage with a woman, you connect her actions to these ideas and reaffirm them.

The truth is that there are plenty of women who feel the same as you do - scared, alone and self-doubting or even self-hating. It has nothing to do with gender. It's purely self-esteem.

I recommend that you stop seeking validation of any type through relationships for now. What you need is to start believing in yourself by any means possible. Start working towards any concrete thing you can think of that would improve your life. It could be art, music, exercise, building something, learning a new language - some skill that you've always wanted but have put off until now. Do this until you start to see some progress. Become more reliant on yourself for survival, physically and emotionally. I know you've tried therapy and meds, but maybe have another try (just saying this because they've helped me a lot). The point is to feel more like you are responsible for your own happiness. It's good that you recognize your issues with anxiety and depression, because those are really key places to start. Truly difficult problems that are worth every second to try and heal.

Eventually when you notice yourself meeting people again, you'll probably notice that they're all different. Some fantastic, some terrible, some boring, some interesting. You're not really meant to hey along with "women" as a whole, just a few of them. Everybody needs something different out of their friends and partners. Once you find some hobbies or projects that you love (which is a great way to meet cool people, btw) and recognize your own needs, you'll be able to tell better when you click with someone and why, instead of idealizing every woman who turns you down.

You hate an idea of women that's borne out of a lack of self-esteem, that's all. You can get over it. Therapy, meditation, exercise, creativity, construction, learning - pick one and give it your all. You won't see progress right away. Keep going. The fact that you want to change means you can.

Good luck and thanks for asking for help! If you don't find the help you need, keep asking. That's important too (=

sixfigs · 2014-11-27T03:52:14+00:00

What you need to overcome is confirmation bias. Take OkCupid: women that are conventionally unattractive are much less likely to even make an OkCupid profile, because they would expect to be unfairly judged for their appearance or even brutally harassed.

Google up pictures of your favorite female celebrities/models/whatever without makeup. Realize that what you see is one of the most extremely rare, most "naturally beautiful" women in the world, just like the vast majority of dudes don't look like Schwarzenegger, Clooney, Depp, or even just the stereotypical "hunk". Search "natural makeup tutorial" or "no makeup tutorial" on youtube and fast forward through a few: look at the stark difference from start to finish, how it can take 10+ products and over half an hour (all the videos are sped up) every day to have what you may think of as a normal woman's face.

Now, you might be wondering why, you may even think this is evidence of them being hypergamous and manipulative. Well, some of them like looking pretty, and some of them want to be attractive (who doesn't?)... But one of the biggest reasons is because it's expected.

People are so used to the image of a woman with mascara (big eyelashes) that women who don't wear it get perceived as looking bored or not paying attention. People are so used to the idea of women that tear out all their body hair, paint perfect skin onto their face, and coordinate everything they're wearing... that to not do that can easily make a woman feel like a miserable, ugly, non-sexual being.

And women who don't care about their appearance to that huge extent often have to deal with being ignored in favor of ones that do. It's the double whammy of not being seen as important (in the skilled/respected/professional sense) and not being seen as attractive either, which just comes down to... not being seen. So many dudes say they'll sleep with any woman, they'd love to get catcalled by any woman - but the only women they're thinking of are the ones that are attractive enough to get their notice in the first place.

AnotherThrowaway1988 · 2014-12-08T16:03:17+00:00

I am very late to this thread, but I wanted to reply anyway after seeing it linked from elsewhere. I am doing this on a throwaway because I don't want this post with info about my past attached to my main account.

In general, I do think women on average have an easier time in the world of dating. Do I think that is fair? No. And I don't subscribe to a lot of it. I don't need a man to have money, he doesn't need to have model looks, he doesn't need to pay for stuff for me, but of course there are women out there who do demand this stuff.

However I do disagree with your statements about how even unattractive women are put on a pedestal.

Nowadays I mainly get "positive" attention from guys, but when I was a bit younger I had quite the opposite. I had severe acne from age 10 and it lasted into my early 20's no matter what medication my doctor gave me. I had greasy hair even though I washed it very frequently. I was pretty meek and shy, basically a walking target for bullies. I literally had guys I didn't know approach me in the street to inform me of how ugly and disgusting they thought I was, me coming home and breaking down in tears because of this harassment was all too common. Even the uglier, fatter guys I knew were disgusted by the idea of being with me and were very vocal about it. Now I am 25 and yes, I do look a great deal better and I'm in a long term relationship, but a year ago I had a stranger on the metro point at me and laugh while saying "Vampire! Vampire" because of my slightly pronounced canine teeth (I should have gotten braces as a kid but I was scared of further bullying and now I simply can't afford them). I was immediately transported back to my past, came home, and broke down. I still have severe low self-esteem and diagnosed anxiety issues to this day. Funnily enough, even after my looks did improve and I began to get hit on in the streets instead of mocked...the biggest difference was when I became more confident, I actually seemed to attract more guys when I could make them laugh and have real conversations than when I would sit shyly and struggle with what to say. It's not all about just looking pretty, actually trying to make a mental connection was important and I had to work on myself as a person.

And yet one time I made a blank profile that had a photo of a buff, shirtless guy on "beautiful people" to see what would happen. I got voted in, and had girls contact me, my profile literally had nothing but a photo. This happens with "hot" people of both genders.

The reason I am telling you this stuff is because I am trying to show you that I am a person. I have had to deal with mockery, crushing insults, rejection, being made to feel repulsive and unwanted. I was told several times by girls and guys that nobody would ever want to be with me because I am so ugly and shy. I don't appreciate people who follow red pill stuff claiming my experiences never happen when I lived it.

I have met vapid, vain women. I have met vapid, vain men. I have seen unattractive guys with the personality of a brick have girls fight over them (and no, these guys were not rich, some were even on benefits). Women as a whole might have an advantage and I hope we can move away from that to make things more equal, but that does not mean we have everything easy. It doesn't mean we have everything handed to us in life, it doesn't mean we don't get hurt and put down.

If you just said you believed women had an easier time on average in the dating game, I'd agree with you. Your claim that you can't even view women as equals because you feel they pretty much never have to work to find someone and have everything easy however is so so wrong. If stories from women and former redpillers can't get you to see that then really I guess there's nothing that can be done...

grantytyta · 2014-11-27T06:48:02+00:00

Dude, the red pill is bullshit. Think of all the girls that exist in the world. Do you really think that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is getting hammered by a different frat douchebag every weekend like the red pill would imply? No, of course not. The people who follow the red pill are bitter over their past experiences with women and/or insecure about their masculinity. The women that they talk about as only being interested in hyper-masculine tough guys is a very small minority of the female population. I think that the Red Pill only works if you want to attract someone as equally shallow and insecure as someone on the red pill.

The red pill drew me in and did the same thing to me. Anyone who believes that shit basically takes the most pessimistic view of the world possible and figures "welp, better screw them before they screw me." Their ideology is just thinly disguised hate, and they essentially say that females are inferior human beings who can't make their own rational decisions. This gives you depression and anxiety because deep down you know it's wrong.

Lastly, you need to realize that females don't have it quite as easy as you would think. Sure, they do get a lot of attention on dating sites but a lot of that attention they know is fake and that the majority of men sending out messages to them have also messaged the same thing to 24234243 other girls. Sex, when it comes down to it, isn't really all it's cracked up to be. Sure,it's easier for girls to have casual sex. But who cares? We're not in competition with them to see who can bang more people. And casual sex has been proven not to increase happiness. It's just for physical pleasure, that's about it.

SHUT_UP_PEDANT · 2014-12-09T00:41:11+00:00

You could turn your misogyny into misanthropy.

Dude, also, I was a virgin until my early twenties and basically thought I'd die alone and forever a virgin, and some of my friends seriously made fun of me. I'd been bullied for many years in my childhood and teens and thought I was gross and incapable of being accepted by society or able to have a normal life. Not being a guy, I can't know exactly how it is for guys, but it's not "uniquely male" to feel shitty about not getting laid. Nobody wants to be the 40 Year Old Virgin, regardless of their gender.

Online dating is really shitty, but my opinion comes from working for a company that uses fake girls to get people to sign up. Also, my little brother was shit on by the girl he picked up from there, because her family didn't like that he was "weird" (he has Asperger's, so I was fucking livid).

It really does feel like in this world, there is a sexual market, men are the buyers and the women are the sellers. which makes it so women have it much easier in that area.

It doesn't make it easier on either side. Yes, men and women have different experiences in dating. If you focus on what's hard for you and what's easy for women, then you're leaving out a very large portion of the story.

I feel like any girl I'd end up with would have far more sexual experience than me

I'm gonna assume that's true of the majority of people over 18 regardless of gender. You just haven't gotten laid much, if at all. It's easy for most people to have more experience because that's normal.

Also, dude, if you have no experience fucking, you're MUCH better off finding a girl who does. Why don't you be honest and tell girls you're a shy guy who hasn't really dated. Come to think of it, I think the whole "lift and be an asshole to be an alpha man because women are terrible and childish" thing is self-perpetuating, anyway. If you behave like Red Pill says you should, you'll be a terrible person attracting terrible women. Nice guys get the nice girls. You just have to know the difference between being assertive and being aggressive. You can stand your ground as a person without resorting to manipulative dickishness.

Honestly I think you should just forget about dating for a little while and focus on friendships. Not so you can potentially date those people later, but so you can improve social skills. Building a social circle helped me out tremendously, though it took me a couple crash and burns before I got it right. Just know that it takes time and you'll probably have some failures.

totes_meta_bot · 2014-12-18T21:26:49+00:00

This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

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Joestarsama · 2022-12-19T03:43:41+00:00

Man stating facts. Brave and intelligent statements.

Title	I'm never going to break my misogyny
Author	kekeek
Upvotes	12
Comments	211
Date	November 27, 2014 1:33 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/2njaz1/im_never_going_to_break_my_misogyny/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/im-never-going-to-break-my-misogyny.300531 https://theredarchive.com/post/300531

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