OP:antibullshit X-post BP

BigAngryDinosaur · 2016-01-07T07:44:03+00:00

Problem is, there are no answers and solution. I help mod a sub that talks about mature relationships without manipulation or games or tactics, and about once a month a RedPiller comes in demanding that we explain our "alternative" plan and guide.

Plan and guide for what? I can never really get a straight answer from them. They say they want easy sex with different hot girls every night, but then they say they are entitled to not being alone, but don't want to commit to anyone. They're all over the road with their desires and wants, but they want a handbook to get each of these conflicting goals.

Another issue isn't entirely that RedPill is such a horribly wrong system, part of the issue is its a system. You're going to have a hard time connecting with other people by using a set system. Relationships of all kinds, between all sexes, are most successful and rewarding when they are fluid and dynamic and all the participants are able to give and take and treat each other with understanding. You can't really make a guide for that, you just have to get out and either conquer your fear or get help for overcoming anxiety.

And another tricky part of the "science" that redpillers use is that it can't be refuted. They use vague studies in special conditions designed to shine glaring spotlights on generalized human behavior in laboratory conditions, and somehow think this data should apply to YOUR relationship.

I mean that, your relationship. Personally. Now you, mr reader, I ask you, what kind of relationship do you want in your life? Do you want a partner you trust and can work with you and be with you as you change and grow and help each other along the way? I bet you do, and you can have this life if you don't settle for less and love yourself enough to make what's good for you top priority.

Now RedPill says you can't have that, they are a system with rules and studies that show your fantasy is just that, a fantasy you can't have and shouldn't want. And they use cherry picked data from wildly vague studies to try to back up their hate for women.

The better argument to use against RedPill is that it won't help you in the long run. Any system and ideology breaks down or you break first. It will harm your ability to connect with someone else on an emotional level and it negates your own goals for your relationship, replacing them with RedPill goals. It's made to take your free will away.

RedPillDetox · 2016-01-09T17:58:33+00:00

Hey!

I'm a lurker here and as soon as i saw this thread i just had to sign up. I'm a 23 year old who's a psychology major and got involved in TRP from 2010 to 2013. From this time period i "detoxed" from the Red Pill and every since been researching with the same purpose as you: To disprove the Red Pill and to help men by showing them true, positive role-models of relationships and dating. I have a TON of research on this.

For example, this paper: http://www.flirtingstyles.com/sites/all/r/pdf/hall_and_canterberry_2011.pdf

It's a scentific paper by Jeffrey A. Hall that suggest that "game" and "Pua stuff" work mainly on sexist women and women high on SOI (which is kinda of the scientific term for sluts - not that i have anything against them though). The kind of women TRP likes to hate on.

You can try and search for Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman "The Myth of the Alpha Male". He's a PhD author of "Mating Intelligence Unleashed" and he explains how beta/alfa distinction is wrong with lot's of research to back it up.

And this are just a couple of scientific papers i have. I have a TON fucking more.

I wanna start a project like this, unfortunelly i'm very busy until february, but i WILL start a website to help men ex TRpers.

Also, i suggest taking a look at Mark Manson "Attract Women through honesty", Dr. Nerdlove writing and Dr. Robert Glover as ethical and positive dating coaches and alternatives to TRP.

Please, reply to me. Let's make this happen, guys! It's about fucking time ;)

BaadKitteh · 2016-01-07T23:27:39+00:00

They are very careful to word their claims in such a way as to be able to move the goalposts easily when faced with refuting evidence, and when called out for their deliberate vagueness and failure to argue from an honest claim, they insist we don't "understand comparisons" or that they're "talking the way men talk, and we can't understand". Attempting to debate with a terp is like "debating" with a confirmed theist; they've made up their minds, nothing will sway them, and their lack of proof doesn't faze them. It sounds right to them in their bitterness and anger, and promises to give them what they want, so they'll stick with it. They can find confirmation in popular media, so it seems that's good enough for them. They ignore the refuting media and everyone who disagrees with them's personal experience because it doesn't fit the narrative they need to believe to absolve themselves of any blame for their failures in relationships- even when they accept blame, it is always framed as a failure because women expect so much from them, not because of any real shortcomings on their part. They are actually angry that they have to be an attractive, interesting person to get laid now that women don't have to depend on them for financial security. It would be sad if they weren't so disgusting; I just laugh at them, take notes, and spread their bullshit far and wide so women can recognize it.

I've personally never met a woman (or man, for that matter) that wasn't completely disgusted by reading pretty much anything from TRP, so that's confirmation enough for me that they live in a dream world.

Bekazzled · 2016-01-09T11:13:00+00:00

I'd be down with that. Evolutionary psych, for example. They use this a lot. It was taken out of my university syllabus because it is not considered credible. Links to articles including stuff like that could be useful.

Articles that discredit pseudoscience and hypergamy etc... I mean, it might make the difference between a person deciding whether to swallow the red pill or not based on an initial glance. Who knows?

give_me_evidence · 2016-01-15T04:08:40+00:00

I created this account and erased my old account to work on a similar project, but I stopped because TRP used to be a huge part of my life and the project was emotionally exhausting. Anyways, in order to avoid cherry-picking, I recommend you stick to debunking stuff that's either in the sidebar, or in the stickied thread archive buried in the sidebar. You should also stick with specific, clear claims. If they're falsifieble, that's even better. I've assembled some of the specific, possibly debunkable, claims that are present in the sidebar below. Hope this list is helpful.

Briffault's Law makes claims about society & animal behavior and has been more or less debunked here
Men in Love and Women in Love make some specific claims that don't seem to be backed by anything remotely resembling data or hard evidence.
Women, the Most Responsible Teenager in the House makes specific claims about biological growth and development, but most of TRP doesn't take this literally.
The author of Women, the Most Responsible Teenager in the House actually pauses for a sentence or two mid-post to clarify that he is speaking literally.
The interpretation that most TRP members have of Women, the Most Responsible Teenager in the House is that women are sheltered from consequences and thus do not emotionally mature. This is a specific claim, and seems to run counter to observations made by insurance companies as well as academics that women are significantly more risk-averse than men in a variety of contexts. Also, there are a handful of very unpleasant consequences (most notably pregnancy) that women have to deal with more than men.
You could make a critique similar to the last bullet point, but using undergraduate grades in college classes as indicators of maturity, rather than a lack of risk-averse behavior. Similar patterns show up with stuff like violent behavior and substance abuse in some countries.
the Glossary of Terms and Acronyms (2015) has a handful of debunkable, specific claims.
Powertalk and other Language Categories claims that the bulk of communication in TRP is and should be straighttalk, rather than nonliteral stuff and intentional hyperbole.
The Five Stages of Red Pill, and How to Read r/TRP Textposts.(from the stickied thread archive and considered required reading) makes a lot of claims about grieving and the Kubler-Ross Model, like that anger is a necessary part of the healing process, and gets a significant portion of the model completely wrong.
Also, the Kubler-Ross model is notoriously unsupported by experiments and studies despite its age and popularity.
Women Are Incapable of Change (from the stickied thread archive) is centered around a claim that directly contradicts Red Pill Antibiotic Nuke from the sidebar.
If I remember right. some claims are made about how mate preference changes during the menstrual cycle. Scientists, however, don't have a very clear or confident picture about this
There are quite a few sidebar claims about certain traits being instinctual. There's a burden of proof when you claim something is an instinct.

One more thing; a lot of people believe in TRP because of an anecdote about TRP working. I think this can be debunked in a similar way to how wacky alternative medical treatments like homeopathy can be debunked.

Mouon · 2016-01-24T14:08:16+00:00

I can't be bothered to give a detailed post about this, but one of the main things that I think draws people to the 'red pill' is their own insecurity about attracting or keeping women. In some cases, its also a sense of bitterness after a bad break up, or an abusive relationship with a bitch, or something like that. Often they are guys who were 'nice guys' who put women they fancied up on a pedestal and did loads of favours for them, maybe got used for attention, or worse, maybe the guy was a male feminist who flagellated himself and said all the feminist rhetoric to get laid, only to find it didn't work.

But with any of the above reasons, the appeal of the 'red pill', like with many other ideologies, would ultimately have been that another group, or society, could be blamed for their failures with women, thus allowing them to avoid having to confront the fact that they are responsible for their own actions and that its their own fault they got friend zoned. I know what the friend zone is like, I put myself there. Everyone who are in it do. Yes some women lead men on, but men who should know better let themselves be led on, and/or let themselves continue to give loads of favours and gifts to a woman whos not their types and clearly isn't interested, and merely likes the attention. At its core its about insecurity and blaming others rather that taking individual responsibility. Ironically the same reason for people being drawn to SJW ideologies...

Title	OP:antibullshit X-post BP
Author	wazzup987
Upvotes	8
Comments	19
Date	January 7, 2016 5:37 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/3zu39q/opantibullshit_xpost_bp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/opantibullshit-x-post-bp.300459 https://theredarchive.com/post/300459

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