Centrist babies

LacklustreFriend · 2020-02-05T12:45:38+00:00

Also, just for the record: Here's the sub's Mission Statement.

Here's several threads on this sub about trans issues:

Here's a thread about gay issues:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/en3hf1/what_are_the_issues_which/

So no, we're not homophobic or transphobic.

This subreddit is also overwhelming economically left. Basically any times US politics is brought up it's pretty clear that Bernie is the most popular here.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2020-02-05T12:38:34+00:00

So women aren't really actors in society. They're objects acted upon.

Why do you think women are so sub sentient?

Oncefa2 · 2020-02-05T19:49:32+00:00

I still think feminism could help solve a lot of men's problems

The same can be said the other way around. For example, how do you expect women to get out of the house and spend more time at work if men can't be guaranteed equal, fair custody of their children?

I still see some "sneaky" or borderline misogyny in a few comments

My opinion is that this is just ingrained philogyny. Anything that is remotely unsupportive of women is seen as sexist. In fact, research shows that people perceive literal gender equality as being sexist against women.

How much of this is due to biology instead of social conditioning is debatable, but the phenomenon is real. If this is the first time you've ever looked at something that is close to being equal, instead of being saturated in pro-female, gynocentric viewpoints, than some things may appear sightly sexist to you.

Just a theory of course. It's basically along the lines of "equality for a privileged class feels like oppression". Women are literally a privileged class, and have been for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Seeing someone say that maybe we ought to treat men better might feel slightly sexist if that's all you've been exposed to your whole life.

I'll let you to decide how you feel about that though. Let us know what you figure out ;)

Dunkolunko · 2020-02-05T12:25:51+00:00

I'm left economically. What does that have to do with anything though? There are centrists and right wingers here.

Also, women have had plenty of influence in society, it's in men's nature to support and care about thevneeds of their wives, not to mention female rulers of which there are plenty.

EDIT: Sorry saw this in my feed and sort of assumed the sub was mensrights. Yeah Id imagine youd have to be at least centrist to post here.

Forgetaboutthelonely · 2020-02-05T16:05:54+00:00

It's hard to know what your initial objections were since you edited your post. But I must say, I congratulate you for having changed your mind and having an open outlook.

I've come to understand that I was blaming individual men for what elites decided. Many laws and strict gender binary rules are just as crappy and oppressive to cis men as it is to anyone else. It's wrong for cis men to blame women and others for their own oppression, so why did I think it was ok to blame men and call them their "own oppressors"?

Absolutely right. I think spaces like this exist in part because a non-insignificant amount of feminist discourse does sometimes frame cis men as a collective of oppressors in more or less subtle ways, and that can feel stifling. In reality, I think both men and women can be victims and perpetrators to different degrees.

I always assumed the "few" problems men had would be fixed once women are totally equal.

Well, part of the reason why forums like this exist is to get people to realize that there are more than just a 'few' problems that men face, and that these problems don't simply fix themselves. And also that there isn't a zero sum game where helping men automatically detracts from women.

I still think feminism could help solve a lot of men's problems, but there are also a lot of things ingrained in all of us that are misandrist that feminism can't fix.

Indeed, that's something I noticed as well. I think many feminists are well-intentioned and don't hate men, but looking at things through one lense can lead to blind spots that allow them to overlook things.

Regardless, I wish to stay on this sub and learn more.

Awesome!

serpentineeyelash · 2020-02-05T13:07:36+00:00

Really, is this centrist? https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/ey941e/maybeunpopular_opinion_do_male_issues_belong_on/

There are many people here who are more centrist than me, because I decided to create a big tent. But who on here is homophobic or transphobic?

Men are not their own oppressors. Firstly, only a small elite of men have written laws, and those men do not write the laws to benefit other men.

Women might not have written the original laws, but in case you haven't noticed, women have had a movement lobbying for laws to benefit their gender for around 200 years now. These days it is often feminist groups who write the laws on issues like domestic violence.

It was Caroline Norton who lobbied for the tender years doctrine which granted child custody to the woman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_years_doctrine

Even before that, there are plenty of examples of male kings being influenced by their wives and mothers. For example, the Roman Empire converted to Christianity because Constantine's mother was a Christian.

Or what about Edward II's wife Isabella, who raised an army against her husband by hooking up with a rival king?

There were also occasionally queens on the throne and they were not particularly any better than the kings. In fact they waged more wars than the kings: https://www.thecut.com/2016/01/european-queens-waged-more-wars-than-kings.html

Also see this list of evidence of women exerting power (though some points in that list are worded differently to how I would put them): https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/dl8by5/lets_discuss_how_women_exert_power_and_influence/

Oncefa2 · 2020-02-05T13:49:47+00:00

homophobic, transphobic

Where have you been looking? Do you have any examples to share with us?

Women didn't set up society and the law

Completely false. There is a huge lobbying complex for women that is literally responsible for writing most of the laws that we complain about.

And denying women's role in building society is inherently misogynistic. You're not a misogynist, are you?

No, women shouldn't get away with abusing men nor should they get kids simply just because

There's a lot more to it than that.

You're the one who's not a leftists. The first men's rights activists during the late 1800s were far left socialists who saw socialism as being necessary to end male oppression in the providership role.

Men's rights is inherently liberal and "woke". You just have your eyes closed.

LacklustreFriend · 2020-02-05T12:32:49+00:00

Is there something specifically you want to argue or discuss about? Because you're not saying anything substantial, and making wild claims with no evidence.

Strikester101 · 2020-02-05T12:45:04+00:00

Women didn't set up society and the law, so why are you mad that they just go along with it?

Actually, I'm more indignant over particular women assuming that men don't have issues as well and that, based on what their privilege can afford, their lives are peachy. That and the generalisations.

ExcellentTraffic123 · 2020-02-05T22:25:28+00:00

Just out of curiosity, what did you take away from the Contrapoints Men video?

plitox_is_a_bitch · 2020-02-05T13:47:10+00:00

After going through your post history I genuinely hope you get the help and support you need.

Kierran169 · 2020-02-05T14:15:33+00:00

You do realize this subreddit was literally created to be free of these issues, right? I mean it's called left wing male advocates. These problems plague r/mensrights and that's why we're here. Because we don't agree with the many hateful opinions over there.

thereslcjg2000 · 2020-02-05T14:37:13+00:00

We’re different than the mainstream left, but our views are leftist for the most part. We believe in legal equality of all people. We’re generally left economically, and are regularly critical of traditional values.

Where exactly are we homophobic and transphobic? I remember one mildly transphobic comment from two or three months ago that got a lot of criticism. I don’t remember a single homophobic comment. Can you link us to them?

Men are not their own oppressors. You do recognize that the vast majority of men have no access to government positions, right? This is one of the most toxic uses of identity politics by the mainstream left. It’s assumed that the rich elites work in our favor simply because they have the same genitals as us. That’s simply not true. Most of them work in the favor of the wealthy. But because of how much social power feminists have, politicians are much more willing to work in feminists’ favor than ours. Look at the legal code - the draft, the amount of reproductive rights, the definition of rape, the quotas for domestic violence, the common uses of Title IX, etc. In general, laws are more likely to favor women than men.

I haven’t seen much if any woman-hatred here. Rather, most for the criticism is directed at feminism. Feminism is an ideology, not a gender. The majority of women do not identify as feminists. Please don’t assume we try to speak for all women just because you do.

Title	Centrist babies
Author	SpEYEralfEEshcAEk
Upvotes	0
Comments	23
Date	February 5, 2020 12:13 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/ez8nxb/centrist_babies/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/centrist-babies.1064060 https://theredarchive.com/post/1064060

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