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I hate tradcon MRAs

TC1827 · 2019-07-22T11:40:36+00:00

The old formula makes no sense now that housework is just a few hours a day and the economy is no longer dominated by physical strength. Why should I have to...

TC1827

July 22, 2019

13 upvotes

/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

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Post Information

Title	I hate tradcon MRAs
Author	TC1827
Upvotes	13
Comments	42
Date	July 22, 2019 11:40 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/cgc4at/i_hate_tradcon_mras/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/i-hate-tradcon-mras.1064644 https://theredarchive.com/post/1064644

Comments

[–]ExcellentTraffic123 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

[–]TC1827[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]insane_gravy 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]TC1827[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]serpentineeyelash[M] 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]LeJacquelope 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ExcellentTraffic123 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TC1827[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]serpentineeyelash 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]TC1827[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]serpentineeyelash 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

At least it's not based on dishonesty. All monogamous societies have cheaters.

I understand the argument that monogamy reduces inequality in sexual success. It's one of the traditionalists' most convincing arguments, and is probably true to an extent. But I suspect much of the time, monogamy merely papered over the sexual competition that still existed.

For starters not everyone got a marriage partner; for a man it often depended on his wealth, which in turn depended on the economy and his position within it. I'm pretty sure there have always been sexless, and indeed loveless, marriages - which were much more difficult to escape than they are today. Men have always worried about being "cuckolded" - the word dates back to the 13th century. And kings tended to have hundreds of children regardless of whether or not their society was officially "monogamous".

Even if it was desirable, I'm not sure if it's possible to go back to the past. In an age of birth control, there's no incentive for an attractive woman to be monogamous.

I'd also point out that we haven't really tried a fully non-monogamous society. Right now I think we are in more of a halfway-house. Maybe if the discussion of sexuality becomes less stigmatized, it will be easier to address some of the sexual disadvantages that men are facing at the moment.

[–]TC1827[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]serpentineeyelash1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ExcellentTraffic1232 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]serpentineeyelash1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]insane_gravy 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]TC1827[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]insane_gravy 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Back then people got married at a young age, they were true life partners.

What a joke. People got married young back then because it was socially expected of them, or they wanted to have sex without the ridiculous disapprovals they would get, or they had premarital sex anyway and got pregnant because contraception was hard to get. Also, we had just gotten out of WWII.

As a 23-year old looking a for a life partner, it is frustrating that all everyone seems to want are hookups and not love

Or your standards might be too high. Both my spouse and I had hookups before we met.

but people are divorcing nowadays to jump to a richer / more attractive partner.

Evidence? If anything, divorce statistics show millennials get divorced less than their parents did, largely because they don't have those ridiculous expectations of getting married out of high school.

[–]TC1827[S] -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]insane_gravy 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't believe in hookups, nor can I date someone who does.

And this is why you're being called a tradcon lite.

A man sleeping around when she is most fertile and committing when she is less fertile is like a man leaving his partner she is no longer fertile.

And most people don't really care because basing your entire life around someone's window of fertility is silly at best. And that's before you start considering other hypotheses about relationships that suggest we aren't monogamous by nature.

But 20 something men with strong moral values, or who are no attractive enough, are denied it in the modern era. This is a key men's issue

Dying younger because of overwork is a key men's issue, as is suicide and bodily integrity. Superfluous dating anxiety caused by Catholic guilt is not.

[–]TC1827[S] -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]insane_gravy1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TC18270 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Pick one. Do you accept tradcon values or not?

I support tradcon as in socially enforced monogamy and importance of family. Not as in men do all the work, women relax at home. Not as in women are queens, men are protectors and providers. Not as in women have no opportunity to build careers.

yet the men in that society do not have the same problems you are describing.

Name one. The west has lost mongomy, and this problem starts arising.

The decline of socially enforced monogamy is a good thing.

For those who want to sleep around and not care about "till sickness and in health" type of commitments yes. For those who don't want to, or are too ugly to, it is horrible.

organized religion that would force a lot of my friends back into the closet.

Separate discussion here. I am not calling for a theocracy or the banning of gay marriage

[–]insane_gravy1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Name one.

The Mosou for one.

IIRC the local population of the Canary islands are another. The women build their own home and invite men to sleep with them until they find someone they want to marry.

The west has lost mongomy, and this problem starts arising.

Not sure how you concluded that since monogamous relationships are still rewarded in numerous laws and standards.

For those who want to sleep around and not care about "till sickness and in health" type of commitments yes. For those who don't want to, or are too ugly to, it is horrible.

Both my spouse and I slept with other people before getting together. We aren't 10/10, yet somehow still managed to get together.

I am not calling for a theocracy or the banning of gay marriage

That is the inevitable result of what you are advocating for. When we had socially enforced monogamy, it was backed by organized religion and it suppressed anyone who didn't conform, especially gay men. You don't get to say you want to benefit men while calling for a system that screws them over when they don't conform.

[–]heimdahl81 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ExcellentTraffic123 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]insane_gravy 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TC1827[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SchalaZeal01 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Young women are whores" is coded language for wanting to go back to a time when women had their gender roles strictly policed by men.

Read that 1975 study. This time period never happened. Maybe by their father (for sexuality, and only sexuality) until they weren't living under their roof.

Gender roles of women have been strictly policed by the woman's social circle (female acquaintances), mother and close female friends. The husband had small input. Only in as much as he is or isn't attracted. Being the heavy hand who forces her to do work for tyrannical reasons (nothing pragmatic, like I dunno, farm tasks needing done), has simply not existed outside a few crazy individuals with megalomania (like the evil guy in Pan's Labyrinth - but not ANY of the other men in the movie).

His wife has much more influence on his spare time than he has on hers, however. Being able to afford going to a café given the allowance (or even not getting any), how much time is spent working in non-farming jobs (where cutting hours is possible), and the get-together with friends time period (never make it zero, or he'll blow up).

[–]LeJacquelope 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TC1827[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]PrincessofPatriarchy 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mewacketergi 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]turbulance4left-wing male advocate 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TC1827[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]azazelcrowley 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LateralThinker13 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TC1827[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]serpentineeyelash 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TC1827[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MGTOW_experienced -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link