Some counterpoints..

JJnanajuana · 2025-07-06T06:26:31+00:00

There's a lot of details in there. It would take a lot of time to look deeper into and asses their claims. I don't have the time/energy to look to deeply right now.

But I will note that the section for domestic homicides leans heavily on data gathered by ANROWS (literally has a name with "women's safety" in it, that they have some bias Is obvious.) and the nsw domestic homicide review. Which I have complained about before for [clasifying a man whos partner had previously spent time in prison for stabbing him, as an abuser after she killed him)[https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/s/vj6eyzNpeg].

They also classified a man as abusive citing his getting a vasectomy without consulting his wife as representative of the type of abuse he used. And explicitly don't count women who killed their partners for money as domestic-violence deaths. And they have said that "women's use of violence [...] must be understood through the lens of their own victimisation."

Which seems bias, and like it would lead to some misidentification.

A similar thing seems to have happened with filicide. With them citing that it's 50:50 male and female abusers. (Last time I looked mums killed their kids more than dads did, but Stephan's made up the difference keeping it at 5050.(Although more boys than girls are killed.) And then they excuse the female killers...

Blauwpetje · 2025-07-06T10:18:39+00:00

This flows over of non-arguments. Against the idea of misandry in the media, they come up with percentages of male protagonists in films etc., and with how many men are quoted about certain subjects. As if those two can’t go together! Quoted men can very well be feminist men. And society can very well admire successful male heroes and at the same time detest the majority who is not like that, especially if they dare complain about it.

The whole site looks like taking isolated MRA-ideas or presumed MRA-ideas out of context, instead of an open debate with extensive articles or podcasts criticising feminism; and then ‘refute’ them with some studies they found somewhere, which is never too difficult, especially in social studies where no fact ever is totally proven or disproven, especially in the current climate on universities.

Mr-OhLordHaveMercy · 2025-07-06T13:44:44+00:00

Honestly, unless I was paid, I have no desire to show how much of this drivel is out of context, using selective information, and using debunked data.

Particularly on their first point. That media doesn't have a man-hating bias when the juggernaut that is Disney (and other adjacent film studios) has kinda blatantly portrayed it that they do.

Hell, don't even get me started on video games. Who's audience (except for like a brief stint in its early days) has damn near always been staunchly male. Is now very openly flippant towards a male audience.

"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."

sunyata150 · 2025-07-06T16:54:16+00:00

I went through about 2/3 of it before I ran out of steam. The site does little to nothing to address caveats and gives me the usual impression that men are the problem and woman are innocent. Granted I got carried away critiquing it and invested more time into this than I should have. Considering the long list of problems it has I am not inclined to continue either.

The media as man-hating:

- "There are at least as many men who play heroes as villains" This isn't a good thing. It should be primarily positive especially since negatives tend to stick with us more strongly than positive ones. You could have a driving experience with more good drivers than not but as soon as you have a really negative one it can ruin the whole driving experience.

- It mentions woman as sex objects but not men as success objects or being disposable.

- "Men even dominate media coverage of “women’s issues”" How often do they mention woman's issues in comparison to men's issues.... ?

Women’s control of personal wealth:

- Men have higher incomes because men choose higher paying careers, have less work life balance and do the most dangerous and hazardous jobs. If woman did this they might have more discretionary income too.

- As far as control of money and bank accounts. Men are still expected to be bread winners even in developed nations so of course men are going to be responsible for it. I am all for woman being able to have careers and make there own money and control it so if you want to give woman rights to be able to do that I am all for it.

- Also who knows what kind of work these men are doing to provide for there families or spouse that is taking a heavy tole on there mental and physical health.

- It rarely gets mentioned in studies how much of men's income is not intended for them. This is not necessarily a good thing especially if its something men are pressured or obligated into.

Paternity fraud:

- Its higher than 1%

- Also just because a number is low doesn't mean its a grave injustice especially when there are little to no punishments for it.

Erin Pizzey:

- Mostly personal attacks

Women's and men's homicides against children (filicides):

- This references 1 country. This should include many countries for a representative sample size.

- "Australia’s National Research Organisation for Women’s Safety (ANROWS)" This should be taken with a grain of salt. Would prefer an independent source.

Women's and men's homicides against intimate partners:

- Never heard an MRA argue against men doing the majority of homicides against woman in domestic violence. Although I am sure there are issues in the research for this too.

- My issue with this is that it ignores or is even used to distract from the fact that men are the majority of homicide victims as a whole. It mentions Australia as a source. In 2023 there were protests of femicide which got political attention because there was an uptick in homicide victims of woman even though it was part of an over all downward trend. If you go to the Australian government website it shows men make up 2/3 of homicides as a whole. Yet there are no protests or government attention of androcide which is actually the norm.

Perpetration of child sexual abuse:

- I would have to look into the sources to see if they took into account men's gendered experiences of sexual assault. As a result men maybe more likely to be unaware there experiences as a child were assault by woman in there family. If the narrative and framing of sexual assault centers woman and girls it would under represent men's experiences.

king_rootin_tootin · 2025-07-06T19:40:37+00:00

On the child sexual abuse claims, they are simply full of shit

First, I have maybe met one men's advocate who claimed women abuse kids more than men. Nobody is denying men do it more, we're just saying a hell of a lot more women are doing it than are reported and that it's probably the most underreported crime

Experts in the field agree: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-28/female-paedophiles-prevalent-says-leading-forensic-psychologist/6428710

Saying "but men do it more!" in reply to someone bringing up these issues I'm reminded of the thinly veiled racism of "all lives matter" or "but black people are more likely to die from another black person than a cop!"

Yes. We know that. But police have been able to act with impunity for too long and society doesn't see black people are fully deserving of protection for violence. Likewise, yes, men commit more CSA, but at the same time women have been able to act with impunity for so long and society just doesn't want to protect men and boys from these things the way it protects girls. That's the point

EDIT I love how they just dismiss Clementine Ford's comments about killing men, but they will flip out and cancel a man if he so much as makes a joke about women having too many pillows on the couches.

alterumnonlaedere · 2025-07-07T00:15:33+00:00

The owner of the website and author of the article, Michael G Flood, has recently participated in this sub (/u/MichaelGFlood). He's a prominent Australian feminist academic and activist.

Absentrando · 2025-07-07T22:17:21+00:00

The media as man-hating

Social media is what’s man hating

Women’s control of personal wealth

She’s right here, I don’t think there’s a huge gap on what men and women control in personal wealth, especially if we exclude the extreme outliers

Paternity fraud

Studies find between ~1% to ~30% depending on how they are conducted. Ones with random samples tend to be on the lower end and ones with people that suspect it as a possibility tend to be on the higher end. Saying it’s non existent is like saying rape is non existent because very few accused rapists are found guilty

Women's and men's homicides against children (filicides)

She’s right here. Filicide is pretty similar if not committed much more by men. But it is much more common for women in cases where the victim is an infant

Women's and men's homicides against intimate partners

Data shows that men kill intimate partners at a much higher rate. She’s right on that end. The nonsense that women that kill are abused and men that do are abusers is just good old fashioned prejudice. Also, I believe the data is partly skewed due to bias like that and women’s tendency to use a 3rd party for murder. The real numbers in my opinion are a lot closer

Women and children first

She tries to debunk this by citing a study that looked at 18 maritime disasters that found that men survived at a higher rate. The reality is that saving women and children first is the standard for hostage and rescue situations. We literally see ceasefire between Israel and Hamas breakdown because Hamas has the audacity to want to release some male hostages before all the women have been. It is also quite literally policy for the UN and many aid organizations to prioritize women and children when distributing aid. There’s no way she tried to investigate this in good faith

Virtual_Piece · 2025-07-07T17:00:45+00:00

I would like to take a crack at the paternity fraud thing real quick.

It doesn't matter how often it happens. Paternity fraud is exploitative, full stop. Feminist harp constantly about rape even though it's only a fraction of men who are ever proven to be predators. Switched at birth cases had laws made, and hospital policy changed to address it even though it didn't happen often.

The point is that paternity fraud is wrong. It's exploitative, objectifying, and morally bankrupt, and that’s a fact. I don't care about any of the possible reasons she might have done it. All I would want to see is the same effort to, at the very least, change hospital policy to make them obligated to maybe even make paternity testing an option, as early in the pregnancy as possible.

Title	Some counterpoints..
Author	jollywood234007
Upvotes	35
Comments	37
Date	July 5, 2025 5:50 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1ls2r0v/some_counterpoints/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/some-counterpoints.1556440 https://theredarchive.com/post/1556440

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