2/3 chase Rule vs Covert Contracts

ViciousFrilledLizard · 2015-10-25T14:46:45+00:00

If you do then I will (unspoken)

This is not a covert contract, this is conditioning. It's providing feedback for another person's behavior (the feedback could be either a reward or a punishment). A reward provided by another person is not possible with a covert contract.

Covert contracts provide reinforcement on your own behavior in a way that in reality can only provide punishment. i.e. suppose you think: if I clean the kitchen, then I will get enthusiastic sex. You cannot actually provide this reward system at all. Your sex partner cannot provide this reward system either because it's covert. So the behavior you actually learn is: if I clean the kitchen, then I will not get enthusiastic sex. This leads to resentment. You trick yourself into thinking you can be rewarded, but in reality you can only possibly receive punishment. There is no way to win with covert contracts, this is why they are toxic. Now, if instead you negotiate with your sex partner: "if I clean the kitchen, then I will get enthusiastic sex" and everyone agrees to the overt contract, then if you hold up your end of the contract it is entirely reasonable to expect the reward.

Try to imagine a dog using covert contracts to get a very specific treat from his owner and how exactly you would expect that to work. The dog wants a t-bone so it rolls over but you just give it a chew toy (if you notice at all). You didn't live up to your end of the covert contract, so the dog gets agitated. How the hell are you supposed to know what's going on? It makes no sense. Similarly, you can't just give a dog a treat and then expect the dog to do something it doesn't know or want to do.

TL;DR: Both covert and overt conditioning will work. Contracts can only provide rewards via negotiation. Covert contracts cannot be negotiated, this means covert contracts can only punish.

alphabeta49 · 2015-10-22T23:52:40+00:00

Fucking simple. The point is not cause/effect. The point is you can't fucking control her.

You can't control her reaction to things you do. I.e., covert contract.
You CAN, however, control your reaction to things she does. I.e., conditioning.

See: The Serenity Prayer. You need to be reading more sidebar and lurking more. This is a dumb post.

Redneck001 · 2015-10-22T17:49:45+00:00

Just make it work for YOU.

"If you're a bitch, I'll go fishing."

I wouldn't pat myself on the back for solving the riddle of the Sphinx just yet.

I don't do nuance.

stonepimpletilists · 2015-10-22T20:08:03+00:00

You're not looking for a reward. Is just a rule.

Covert contracts are a tit for tat, but the other person isn't aware of their end.

This is just a way to be less needy and available, there is no expectations of the other party.

Countpudyoola · 2015-10-22T18:57:10+00:00

One Friday I got 3 hours of sleep the night before.

We were coming off of shark week and I was jonesing for rogering.

I announced to my wife I was drinking Turkish Coffee in order to be wide awake for festivities after the kid went to bed that night.

She's familiar with the term covert contract (hates it because I call her on it when she does it).

I acted like a town crier Hear Ye Hear Ye (tongue in cheek)

"LISTEN TO MY OVERT CONTRACT. I'M DRINKING THIS NOW BECAUSE WE'RE DOING IT LATER!"

TrainingTheBrain · 2015-10-22T17:30:15+00:00

What's the point of this?

Scurvemuch · 2015-10-22T19:11:18+00:00

If we can agree to the above then might it be argued that the "I return 2/3 affection/etc. rule" a form of a covert contract?

Nope.

A covert contract is an expectation of an external reaction based on your actions, and having that expectation be un announced.

a 2/3 ratio ( or what ever ratio works for you ) is a tactic that was found to work with regards to ratio of affectionate behavior.

If SHE does / makes me feel 3 X , I will do 2X in return because I think this appropriate to maintain the 3X.

you are not involving any EXPECTATION of HER behavior.

strategos_autokrator · 2015-10-22T20:18:41+00:00

The 2/3 rule of thumb is a simple reminder to not act needy. If you are a busy guy with a lot going on, it comes naturally without having to count.

Besides, consequences are not covert contracts if you own the choice to do the consequences. The way to tell if something is a covert contract is if you feel hurt or resentful, and you act from those feelings.

hva_vet · 2015-10-23T13:14:57+00:00

The rule that returning 2x the X for 3x the X is an observation of AWALT. Being a really nice guy to the prom queen and giving her a dozen roses while thinking she will fuck you instead of the quarterback - because he's an asshole - is a covert contract. Prom queens fucking the QB is also AWALT. However, the difference is that the prom queen was unaware she was supposed to fuck the nice guy (according to him) but gets all wet when the QB only gives her two flowers in return for three flowers because, well, AWALT. The QB may or may not be aware that giving her 2 flowers in return for her 3 makes her want to suck his dick, he just knows she wants to suck his dick because he's fucking awesome. The nice guy resents the prom queen because he was so nice and gave her a dozen roses and instead she sucked the QB's dick. The nice guy set up a covert contract expecting the prom queen to have sex with him where the QB just tossed her a couple flowers and got his knob polished.

Now say the nice guy wakes up and realizes being nice to the prom queen doesn't get him anything. Instead begins returning 2x the X for 3X the X and gets a lot more action with the ladies, is he forming covert contracts by doing this or is he implementing an action that he knows gets certain results?

BluepillProfessor · 2015-10-22T18:26:10+00:00

might it be argued that the "I return 2/3 affection/etc. rule" a form of a covert contract?

No, it is overt at least to you. Whether you choose to make it overt with her is up to you but I wouldn't recommend it.

Also, your corollary does not necessarily follow as you acknowledge with your "might." If you do ____ then I will ___ is a plan of action, not a covert contract.

irateMD · 2015-10-23T01:33:21+00:00

There was a related post a while back.

Implementing any of the Red Pill strategies can be part of a covert contract. The right frame is not that we do these this so that our wives will be nice and fuck us more, but that we do these things to be better men who are more attractive. If our wives happen to be happier, nicer, and hornier, then that's great, but the ideal mindset is that of outcome independence with respect to her reaction. Be awesome because you can and should be awesome, not to secretly convince her of something and somehow win.

squirrelcuisine · 2015-10-23T14:47:10+00:00

If I pick you out a lingerie outfit Im going to fuck you in it tonight.

"Sounds good!"

Covert Contracts arent all bad.

Title	2/3 chase Rule vs Covert Contracts
Author	pingpongsam
Upvotes	0
Comments	18
Date	October 22, 2015 5:24 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/3psp9x/23_chase_rule_vs_covert_contracts/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/23-chase-rule-vs-covert-contracts.200821 https://theredarchive.com/post/200821

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