That initial kick back - what's normal?

RP_German · 2015-05-05T18:14:12+00:00

I held frame and told her that the things I am doing is to make me better man and in turn improve the family. And that I don't seek or need her validation, especially if it doesn't impact the family financially.

This is DEER (Defend, Excuse, Explain, Rationalize) and JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) all over, and it's a big no-no. Hamsters eat DEER and JADE and they shit out garbage for your Beta Shit Goblin to eat... who in turn shits out more DEER and JADE... now you're arguing and is almost as satisfying as sex to her, except she feels in control of the situation. And she's right: words are her domain, actions are yours.

You are Defending and Justifying your actions and then Explaining and Rationalizing them.

Remember, RP is about seeking validation from yourself. By defending your position, you are demonstrating that her stance against it is harmful to your stance. By justifying and explaining, you are demonstrating that you think you may be weak in your actions and that words may work better. Words do not work better. Actions work better because actions = work.

Was this a shit test, a comfort test, or something else? What else can I expect coming down the pipe?

This wasn't any of these things. This is what dread does to her.

You are taking control, being your own self, no longer seeking validation from her, and making decisions without her... decisions that help her. You are also working out, looking better, and dressing better, which threatens her complacency. You said she has "baby weight." Are these her words or yours? I guarantee you she thinks she's fat. You are looking better and working for it and this threatens the beta comfort she has cultivated for 10 years.

You already helped her whelp out a litter, so she no longer has a biological imperative to have sex with you (she may want sex, but her complacent lifestyle, which you supported for so long, takes precedent) ... she has what she needs from sex and needs nothing else. Your beta-BP lifestyle worked for her; you provided income and resources to keep her comfortable and her children healthy.

Now you're changing. Your biological imperative is not stunted. You still want sex and now you are working in a direction she recognizes as positive towards sex. Her primate brain is literally telling her, that you are getting ready to have sex with other people who aren't her.... this primate fear isn't based on love or cheating... it's based on her fear that her kids and her lifestyle will lose resources to a competing female. Now she has to up her game to keep the resources in place. She doesn't like this because humans are inherently lazy.

The frustration you found in that argument from her is her manifestation of that fear.

In short: you are doing the right thing... keep doing it. You feel guilty from time to time as you lean towards thinking that you may be being an asshole or are being controlling. You need to stop that. You aren't doing anything to her... you are doing to yourself and she is struggling to meet that new bar you are setting. It is her decision to meet that standard or not meet that standard.

I do recommend you up the amused mastery and cocky/funny game, though. RP is a jarring transition for you and her and keeping things as light as possible, but staying on point, can ease that transition.

Remember that true RP men are looking to be the top tier men: we want to be full-on alphas who can offer beta comfort when the time is necessary: she does what you want, she gets what she wants. Many men in here find that getting sex and immediately showing heavy affection, gifts, dates, etc. create operand conditioning when combined with withdrawing when she denies sex. Read about The Prisoner's Dilemma for more info on that.

NiftyDolphin · 2015-05-05T17:46:47+00:00

Shit-test. She feels like she's losing control of you and used the razor kit as a focal point to instigate and argument and take you down a peg.

In cases where the woman has been in charge for a long time, she'll usually escalate the intensity a few times. She's in charge, you're not, so she's going to take you head-on.

Once she's realized head-on confrontations don't work, look for her to shift to attacking whatever tactics are working for you. "You're always to smug! Like you're laughing at me!" or "Go on, WALK AWAY. LEAVE, like you always do!" etc.

As she figures out that you're holding frame, look for her to shift tactics again. Usually she'll go to Victim Status, with you being the abusive, uncaring husband who's.... who's... hhhuurrrrrrting her.

whinemoreplease · 2015-05-05T17:45:33+00:00

Agree and amplify. See if she wants you to ask her about everything.

"Can I take a dump now?"

"Am I allowed to wash my hands?"

"Should I ask you before I eat lunch?"

The questions biting at the back of my mind is how was your relationship before? Were you the one asking her for permission to do everything? Was she the one who's always been in charge? If that's the case, realize you're shaking the entire foundation of what your relationship was. That's obviously going to be unsettling.

For my vacations, I go through my thought process out loud. So, I'll look up trains, planes, cars, etc. and make it obvious as I'm trying to process decisions.

theultmatecad · 2015-05-05T20:57:50+00:00

you are doing great-- she senses she is losing power over you and had a tantrum. she will probably have a few more but that's the road to her submission after you likely acted like her little boy for years.

Dont be afraid to pull a playful Patrice every now and then-- I am deeper than you but recently my wife called me a sexist. It went like this:

wife : you dont take my advice seriously, its because I am a woman right? THAT IS SEXIST.

me: So?

wife: well..I dont want to married to a sexist

me: no one said you had to

fnordsnord · 2015-05-06T03:46:22+00:00

This is a test. She has been controlling a good bit of your lives and your relationship. And YOU. Because you weren't doing it.

She needs to know that she can trust you to be strong enough to handle the responsibility that you are taking on. So she tests you. If you can't stand up to her, how are you going to handle the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune?

You did fine.

And yeah - you're taking power back from her, and that's never comfortable. She's having to give up control.

Hamilton950B · 2015-05-05T21:32:47+00:00

Interesting. I recently made a similar executive decision. My wife had been planning a vacation for us, decided flying would be too expensive, and that we would just stay home instead.

My son and I both still wanted to go. So I planned a vacation to the same place, but driving two days each way instead of flying. My wife decided she would come along, and we all had a very nice time.

That may have been a dick move, I don't know, but it worked out. Maybe I was lucky.

My wife has traditionally planned our vacations, and she's good at it. I'm not sure how to handle this in the future.

Flavius_Aetius · 2015-05-06T07:05:55+00:00

I think it is normal and part of the transition process. As a new Rper, I will relay my experiences with my wife. My wife is still in the "defensive" stage. Makes comments about my new "my way or the highway" attitude. Threw a fit I re-arranged the boy's room, not because she didn't like what I did, but because "I didn't consult her first." Calls me sexist for not treating her as a partner in all our decisions. I simply chose not to engage and avoid even acknowledging her "feelings" other than an occasional "that's nice" smirk. I have found that the key is to be decisive, be consistent, and not engage the hamster. Just make it clear through your actions that this is how it is going to be now.

I recall when I was a teenager, my mother would always say "I am not having this argument", but then proceed to explain/justify her position on what we were arguing about. You need to just "not have the argument."

No clue on how long the defensive stage lasts.

angels_fan · 2015-05-05T17:45:59+00:00

I made the executive decision that we would fly and rent a car for our August vacation instead of driving two long days each direction

Others may disagree, but being captain of your family doesn't mean you exclude her completely. This was a dick move.

Going back to the captain/first mate analogy, there is a reason for a first mate. If the captain is just flying solo and never asking for any input what-so-ever, then what is the point of a first mate?? You should ask her opinion, have a discussion and then make a decision. Granted, as the leader of your house, YOU should be the final say in the decision, but for fucks sake, don't completely shut her out!

I held frame and told her that the things I am doing is to make me better man and in turn improve the family.

I like this.

She went on to say that I don't respect her the way I do my business partners and she thinks that she's not on the same level.

Well, yeah... that's because she's not a fucking business partner. Why in the hell would she think you should treat her the same as them?? That's just downright stupid.

Title	That initial kick back - what's normal?
Author	RP_German
Upvotes	9
Comments	34
Date	May 5, 2015 5:34 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/34yoa0/that_initial_kick_back_whats_normal/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/that-initial-kick-back-whats-normal.201993 https://theredarchive.com/post/201993

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