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Everyone's feelings are valid (unless you're a man who was just rejected by a woman) [vent]

elmiraguth
August 24, 2021
73 upvotes
/r/MenSupportMen

First time posting here, partly to vent, partly because I want to hear that I'm not the only one thinking this. But feel free to disagree, if you want (and if you remain civil).

Basically, the title. I am annoyed by the hypocrisy online where people often say things like "Everyone's feelings are valid", but as soon as it's a man who's just been rejected by a woman (who's understandably filled with a lot of negative feelings), this apparently seem to stop applying.

When a man gets rejected by a woman and lets even some of his emotions out (which men are encouraged to do btw), he immediatelly gets branded "an incel, a niceguy" and gets shamed for "feeling entitled to a relationship".

Are this person's feelings not valid? Sure, acting nice doesn't entitle you to a relationship. But breaking someone's heart doesn't entitle you to their friendship. It's perfectly OK to stop being nice to someone after they reject you romantically. Sure, it's not very friendly, but there is no reason to shame someone for not being friendly. Again, everyone's feelings are valid. If I don't want to be friendly, I can choose not to be friendly (as long as I'm not being outright asshole).

This doesn't apply specifically to me (at the moment). But I just really really hate hypocrisy.

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Post Information
Title Everyone's feelings are valid (unless you're a man who was just rejected by a woman) [vent]
Author elmiraguth
Upvotes 73
Comments 28
Date August 24, 2021 10:23 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit /r/MenSupportMen
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MenSupportMen/everyones-feelings-are-valid-unless-youre-a-man.1060515
https://theredarchive.com/post/1060515
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/mensupportmen/comments/pakk6q/everyones_feelings_are_valid_unless_youre_a_man/
Red Pill terms in post
incel
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Comments

[–]a-man-from-earth 29 points30 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Yup. Recognizable. And this seems orders of magnitude worse online than in real life.

It's one of the many mixed messages we men get. Men should open up emotionally more. But the wrong emotions get you demonized.

[–]fearsclave 14 points15 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The moral of the story is that our feelings don’t matter, and there’s less to be gained in venting them than there is in cultivating self-control.

[–]a-man-from-earth 13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Cultivating self-control is always good. And venting is fine if you are very selective in who you are venting to.

[–]fearsclave 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Amen.

[–]Uncoolx2 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Venting of negative emotions triggers reward circuits in the brain that can cause venting to be more habitual for dopamine reward than actually solving any problems.

Accept the feelings, and that they are valid. Look at the triggers for negative emotions. Eliminate the triggers.

[–]Carkudo 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was going to say that it serves one well to be able to get in touch with his feelings even if only in the privacy of this home, but then I realized most men have families. Jesus.

[–]Tesla7891 9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm living this. Asked a girl out 2 weeks ago at a place I go to every Saturday. I didn't read it wrong, it was clear she liked me..and I would also always throw her an extra tip. We were flirting, but when I asked her she said no, stating "not now" as she's about to be going back to finish college. As if I'm too needy and clingy... Hmm.

I felt her expecting it to be awkward last weekend or I was to feel entitled like you said or I'm to carry on tipping and being friendly as if I'm supposed to be some highly romantic person who isn't giving up?

No. I told one person in my community that goes where she works every Sat but its not like I liked her that much. I'm hurt that it went from pretty good flirting, to cold feet when it got serious, cause honestly I went and cleaned my apartment, couldn't sleep the night before, and went outside my comfort zone asking her out cause I'm pretty bad at it, don't drink coffee, don't like 95% of beers, and don't like planning and paying for everything if, lets be honest, we don't even get to second base for at leastttt 2 weeks. She's cute, sort of, but there are other fish in the sea, but the ball is in her court and she should respect I put myself out on a limb and it hurt.

Sorry. You just really hit home and I also wanted to vent.

[–]SNAiLtrademark 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

As a rule, server or bartenders should never ever date clients. That's their livelihood, and mixing those is a terrible decision.

Whether y'all had a thing or not, rejecting you is the correct choice in that situation. It sucks, but that's how things are.

It still hurts, and it's still valid to feel hurt.

[–]Tesla7891 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long long time. Well then, by that logic as a rule she shouldn't have been flirting. I'm not a client. She works part-time at a golf course. Yes, I know she probably relies on tips. But when I say I tipped her, it was 2 dollars. I think she could risk the loss of that income for the chance at finding a soul mate. Its not like she was sitting in a corner and reading a book. I've worked similar jobs, if she hadn't wanted to flirt with me, she could've went into the back.

That's a terrible rule. For the guys like me who have no chance on apps, and will be one of the lowest prospects in a bar, we have to try to find girls at the places we go, the gym, our work, etc. And its generally good advice to have know a litlel about a person before asking them out.

"Hey, lets just say the only times girls can only be available is at a bar" I thought this was a men's support sub.

[–]a-man-from-earth 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If she's relying on tips, chances are that flirting is just part of her MO to get more tips.

[–]Tesla7891 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure the tips aren't a necessary part of the pay structure- they just have a tip jar. It's also a good golf course so am pretty sure she's getting better than minimum wage. She cooks egg sandwiches cooks on the grill, fills cups, makes coffee, restocks things, and runs the register all by herself for a pro-shop's small counter service area.

To be honest, I haven't ever bought anything than one soda at a time. If she's going to flirt with me over my small $2 tip on a $2 soda thinking I might loosen my wallet, again, wow.

[–]Algoresball 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The key is finding a safe place to express those frustrations. Unfortunately a lot of people have no sympathy for lonely men but there are groups and stuff.

[–]Whisper 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If you are male, not gay, and sexually active or trying to be, you will get rejected a lot. Even very very expert "pickup artist" types will usually be rejected by more than 50% of women, if they just approached them all. Most people who complain a lot about "niceguys" taking rejection poorly are not quite understanding that they are seeing a reaction, in a single incident, to many accumulated rejections.

And it's that last part that tells us how to address this problem in our lives. If we are hearing "no", over and over and over again, and never "yes", then there is probably something about our approach we need to change, not for anyone else's sake, but so we can hear "yes" more often.

Because that is the real antidote to the hurt of rejection. Not being soothed, not venting, but hearing "yes". Women's pickiness about mating is built into their DNA, but if it wasn't surpassible, we wouldn't be here. And if your ancestors weren't attractive enough to mate, you wouldn't be here.

So, sometimes, what we really need to do is reject the cultural standard of advice about how to approach women (which wasn't written by people who care about you), and take a long hard look at what they actually respond to.

[–]Throwawayingaccount 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

but if it wasn't surpassible, we wouldn't be here.

Your logic has a flaw in it.

The fact that humans continue to procreate does indeed mean that there are some men are indeed successful. HOWEVER, it does not mean that it is surpassible to any specific individual.

[–]chrisbarf 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel this so hard. It’s like people expect you to just brush off these feelings you’ve had in you for a while. You’re not crazy for feeling shitty about that. in fact if you were able to make yourself vulnerable to someone, get damaged in that vulnerable space, and then just go back to how you were before you met, that would be borderline sociopathic.

Sit with your pain, let your emotions breathe, and find value in solitude. There’s gonna be anger and sadness but it’s just your brain recognizing what’s going on.

Find your peace king

[–]2horde 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it depends on

  1. How the man is venting these feelings and
  2. Who he's venting them to

If the audience is a bunch of fake woke assholes who just want to complain then he's not gonna get a real answer since they'll just see fresh meat and attack

But also if he's turning into a niceguy™ and complaining about "how women are" or that it's her fault for him feeling bad, that's not good either.

If you're rejected it's more about how you internalize that feeling of rejection, and what makes these incels something people make fun of is the fact that they can't handle that rejection and so they turn it around into attacks on that specific woman, all women, feminism, you name it, BECAUSE he thought it meant he's "not good enough" and that insecurity makes him fly off the handle, rather than just accepting the simple truth that he's not her type or whatever her reason is and it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with him in the first place

[–]xhypocrism 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree we should call out people if they started berating someone who said they were sad they got rejected. That feeling shouldn't be invalidated.

What I'm seeing more of, however, is some guys being rejected, feeling sad, and then bringing a load of rubbish with that emotion (all women are trying to exploit men with their sexuality, women don't know what they want, nice guys finish last, etc etc).

I would support calling out the extra rubbish. That's an opinion/ideology and is fair game for criticism. I would not support calling out the emotion of sadness after rejection.

[–]sir_earl -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your feelings are not your actions, so it can be iffy. Your feelings are always valid, but your actions are not always helpful. If you were nice to somebody only to gain them as a romantic partner, got rejected, and then proceeded to be mean; that makes it seem like you did not care for them as a person but rather was only interested in sex (this may not be true but that's what it feels like IME). If you were nice to them, got rejected, and then was like "I am hurt by that so I think it's best if we go our separate ways"; then it's clear that the relationship has ended in all ways (even friendship). Obviously situations can vary, but I think there just isn't a great precedent in society in dating for healthy ends so we humans tend to revert back to what "worked" last time. That being said, I definitely understand the frustration of hypocrisy in dating. There's a lot of hypocrisy in it, and not just in the rejection part.

[–]Uncoolx2 -8 points-7 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

That your feelings are valid does not mean your behaviors or your thoughts about your feelings are.

Nobody will say a damn thing if you say "Getting rejected feels bad."

That is valid.

It's the bullshit that follows - the brain vomit - that is, well, bullshit.

"Getting rejected feels bad because...."

No. Nobody cares.

Everybody wants to include their entire life story with each new bad event. Stop that shit. One bad event is one bad event. Failure is going to happen.

Life is gonna suck. Shit will happen that feels bad.

What matters is how you choose to move forward with that.

[–]elmiraguth12 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

That your feelings are valid does not mean your behaviors or your thoughts about your feelings are.

What do you mean by "thoughts about your feelings"? What makes them invalid?

Regarding behaviours, you are of course right, if the behaviour is harmful to someone. But what I am talking about is invalidating men's feelings even if their behaviour doesn't harm anyone.

It's the bullshit that follows - the brain vomit - that is, well, bullshit.

"Getting rejected feels bad because...."

No. Nobody cares.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. I can understand that not everybody is interested in one man's feelings, but saying "nobody cares" is very detrimental to men's mental health, in my opinion.

Edit:Formatting

[–]Uncoolx2 -5 points-4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Being rejected sucks.

Full stop.

It doesn't suck more or less because you simped for 6 months before you were rejected.

That is the reward of approaching with dishonesty.

So, the brain vomit attempting to build validation for the feeling of rejection sucking is absolute bullshit.

Being rejected sucks. Romantically, platonically, and professionally. It needs no justification based on "but, but, but I did x, y, and z!"

So what?

You can do everything perfect and STILL LOSE. That's just life - not an existential crisis.

The crisis is in not having the resources in place to lick your wounds and move on, rather than commiserating and pouting in a puddle of self-pity.

And THAT is what is damaging to male mental health: encouraging rumination and inaction. Normalizing self-isolation.

And, no, online interaction does not count. If it did a year of lockdown wouldn't have exacerbated mental health crises.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]a-man-from-earth[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Removed as personal attack (rule 2).

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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