A Message for White Knights

[–]Sarstan 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]avoiceformen[S] -4 points-3 points-2 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

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It was Mark Twain that said “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”

And that is the case with people like you. So sure of yourself. So fucking wrong. Men ARE raped more than women. First consider this:

2.1% of men reported forced vaginal sex compared to 1.6% of women in a relationship in the previous year. From: Predictors of Sexual Coersion. http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/ID45-PR45.pdf

*94% of sexually abused youth in correctional facilities reported being abused by female staff. From: Sexual Victimization in Juvenile Facilities, 2008-09. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/svjfry09.pdf

Among inmates reporting staff sexual misconduct, ~ 65% reported a female aggressor. From: Sexual Victimization in Prisons and Jails Reported by Inmates, 2008-09. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/svpjri0809.pdf
50% of homeless youth reported being sexually abused by a female. From: It’s Not What You Think: Sexually Exploited Youth in British Columbia. http://www.nursing.ubc.ca/PDFs/ItsNotWhatYouThink.pdf

And that isn't even the really good stuff. Do you know what goes on in men's prisons? I know, they are convicts and don't count, right? Excuse me, I meant they are men and convicts and don't count, right?

I have a different standard than you. If the victim was human, I count them. I am funny that way. So take a look at this:

http://www.insideprison.com/prison-rape.asp

I am not lying. You are just confused about that because you wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you in face.

Men are raped more than women, no matter how you define the word. The only way you can think otherwise is to rationalize that male victims should not be counted.

There's your cup of coffee. Drink it and wake up.

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[–]BolshevikMuppet 10 points11 points12 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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Back at the subtle misandry and shaming language again, huh Bolshey?

If I saw you under the guillotine and had the power to save you, I wouldn't.

Bolshey's predicted response:

What about what I said was misandry, I'm just a reasonable person, you're crazy!

No, Bolshey, you've demonstrated a very real pattern of man-hating bullshit that never ends. And I will call you on it every damn time.

I am not risking MY life for some random woman I don't know. That's it. That doesn't mean I'm a bad person, it means I value my own life over a random woman's. My mother, my fiancee, yes, I'd risk my life for them. A random woman, would I risk for my life for her? Fuck no, man. I know you would like men to continue to sacrifice themselves for the pussy, but it's not going to happen anymore.

Would I risk MY life for a random man, either? Maybe, maybe not.

I am not a jackass to value self-preservation in a society that hates me because I have a penis.

I am logical. Just. AND a good person.

You know what I spend my time doing? Pointing out misandric abuses of justice. You know what I take action on? Donating thousands of dollars to men's rights groups who do REAL work for the benefit of men and society as a whole. That's being a good person. You are just a troll who hates men and will do anything to shit on men's rights. I care about justice. You care about keeping men in their place beneath women.

Good men will no longer be shamed for taking a stand against misandry.

You have failed.

[–]BolshevikMuppet 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No, Bolshey, you've demonstrated a very real pattern of man-hating bullshit that never ends. And I will call you on it every damn time.

Oy. The best you've got is a personal attack? I thought you were better than this. Can't you just go back to making up words?

A random woman, would I risk for my life for her? Fuck no, man. I know you would like men to continue to sacrifice themselves for the pussy, but it's not going to happen anymore.

Either you're looking for a fight, or you're illiterate. I wrote that we should step in go help other people (men, too). I don't specifically want men sacrificing themselves for women, I want men and women sacrificing themselves for their fellow human beings. But, I suppose that just makes me pro-social.

I am not a jackass to value self-preservation in a society that hates me because I have a penis.

If you'd never step in to help anyone you don't intimately know, most people would call you a jackass. If you'd step in to save a child, or another man, but never a woman, you're being a misogynist.

You'd react the same way that I am to this article if a feminist said "women shouldn't be willing to try to protect men from the harms of false paternity and family court because men are evil"

[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Oy. The best you've got is a personal attack? I thought you were better than this.

I always tell people you're a misandrist, small-mind. It's not a personal attack, it's a statement of fact. You're not surprised, I know.

I want men and women sacrificing themselves for their fellow human beings.

Should a slave sacrifice himself for his master? Guess your view would depend on whether you're the slave or the master.

You'd react the same way that I am to this article if a feminist said "women shouldn't be willing to try to protect men from the harms of false paternity and family court because men are evil"

You see, small-mind, women have not helped men for the last 60 years while our rights have been stolen. Women were fine with gaining all their special privileges and entitlements in addition to the ones they already had.

So, as you well know, taking a stand against a real injustice - women's casual acceptance of discrimination against men - is a little bit different than taking a stand against men "because they are evil". Women have let men get shit on for the last half-century. Men are not, and never were, evil, or privileged over women.

I wouldn't save most men, either. Most men have casually supported this misandry, too. That's why I wouldn't save you. Hell, you're worse- you actively support misandry.

Your claim that I'm an evil misogynist promoting violence against women was already debunked before you even thought it:

In the video I said that if I were to see a woman being raped I would continue on as if nothing ever happened. And I still stand by that statement unapologetically.

And I assert that I am 100% justified in this line of thought.

Now the fact that I said this must have triggered some innate male protector instinct in many MRA's that the rest of us who actually understand what gender war is all about eschewed a long time ago. Their main argument is that I’m promoting violence against the entire female gender by saying that I wouldn't risk my life to protect a woman from violence unless she was a member of my family.

I think the problem here is that maybe men have not yet started to consider that when women and society at large decided to burden men with the job of selflessly saving women from violence, that this was, in and of itself an act of violence against the entire male sex.

The draft was an act of violence against the entire male sex.

The sexually selective rescue effort on the titanic was also an act of violence against the all men. And the expectation that it’s a man’s duty at great personal risk to his person and his life to save adult females from violence is an act of violence against men.

All my ideas do is neutralise the violence that has been foisted upon men by advocating an act of non-violent, non action.

That’s right, refusing to defend women from violence is a non-action and therefore cannot be violent in any way, yet you have feminists and MRA's alike claiming that I advocate rape. You even have one feminist saying that for me to advocate non-action in regards to violence against women is an admission of rape; which is just another attempt to broaden the definition of rape, and another reason why men should refuse to offer defense to women.

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[–]avoiceformen[S] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

Oh shut the fuck up. At least if that is your best shot. Most MRA's are long past being shamed out of their beliefs by being called bitter. And as I read this guy it seems pretty clear that he is one of them.

Good.

I would not lift a finger to help a woman in trouble unless she were personally known to me. Not one finger. It's not bitterness, but resolve. So go ahead and try to call me bitter. I won't care, and it won't address the fact that more and more men are feeling the way I do all the time.

If it hasn't already, it is going to start turning into women in trouble having men walk by who don't even bother to end their cell phone calls to find out what is going on.

Not long ago there was a woman near where I live with car problems. She had her hood up as I smiled at her and walked by silently. Twenty years ago I would have gone out of my way to help. But the women in this culture and these times? Hell no. Not my problem any more.

[–][deleted]1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]avoiceformen0 points 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We are taking a stand against injustice.

what injustice are you standing against when you let my mother, your coworker's daughter, your neighbor's girlfriend get raped, simply because you don't know her?

There is no hatred in taking a stand against being a pawn of a system that hates US.

jesus. we're talking people being hurt, though. women are born into this world just like men, as innocent babies. they escape genital mutilation (just like over 50% of male babies), but they go through years of hearing lies about the world. reproductive rights had to be fought for. the right to vote is recent. yes, there are groups that are trying to grab too much. yes, there are women who believe in these groups, but those women are just confused people.

you cannot find gender equality by rejecting a gender. that's what the men's rights movement is about.

It is a calculated response against our own nature, but it must be done for the good of society.

no, you're delusional, just like the women who talk like you do.

[–]avoiceformen1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You might want to talk to women about how they are treating men, then. Whether you agree with me or not there is a growing number of men who are quickly embracing a philosophy of leaving women to completely fend for themselves regardless of the outcome. And just a slight hint here, I don't think calling those men bitter or other shaming tactics is going to do anything but strengthen and further justify their resolve.

Either way, it means nothing to me. Since I am the one in the drivers seat for my own life then I am the one empowered to make the decision on what to do. In that I have taken my well learned lessons from the feminists. As from the following stated by feminists:

"Who cares how men feel or what they do or whether they suffer? They have had over 2000 years to dominate and made a complete hash of it. Now it is our turn. My only comment to men is, if you don't like it, bad luck - and if you get in my way I'll run you down." Signed: Liberated Women, Boronia. (Herald-Sun, Melbourne, Australia - 9 February 1996)

“My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don’t even need to shrug. I simply don’t care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don’t matter.” – Marilyn French, in “The Women’s Room”

In the end I only have collective concerns about men and boys. If i know a woman, I would help her because she has some sort of value to me and to my life or she would not be in my circle. But a woman that is a stranger? If I were talking on my cell phone walking down the street and passed one who was in trouble in one way or another, I doubt it would cause a hitch in my conversation.

I am quite happy to be this way.

[–][deleted]1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You might want to talk to women about how they are treating men, then.

i do. and disclaimer, i'm a man. in fact, the comment you replied to is not that different from what i would say to a woman.

you select quotes from crazy, inhumane bitches. i've dated several feminists, and only one actually thought there was something wrong with men. she had other psychological problems. currently, i'm dating someone who's not a feminist, and it's really nice, because we can just be ourselves.

what concerns me is that opposing yourself to the quotes you selected makes you one of the people pitting the sexes against each other. most women are not like this, just like most guys aren't rapists. please try to understand this. there's as much evidence as you care to gather that the world is a cold and uncaring place, but i ask that you not do this. because you can gather evidence that the world is caring.

In the end I only have collective concerns about men and boys.

so are you saying you'd stop if a man were being stabbed? because if you would stop if a man were being stabbed, but not a woman, you are, in fact, as bad as marilyn french. she's suffering because people have treated her poorly, and she just can't find it within herself to care about others who look like them. and i feel for her, but you know that she's looking at the world through a distorted lens.

why can't you see that you're looking back through that same lens?

[–]avoiceformen1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

why can't you see that you're looking back through that same lens?

I CAN.

Look at it this way. What is the best way to wake people in general up to the fact that society is misandric? I mean, look at the misandry in you! I don't mean that to be insulting, but you live in a culture where it is men who are the most disposable, exploited and unfairly treated monolithic group. It goes on unnoticed and unacknowledged almost everywhere around you.

Sure, I can "gather evidence" that the world is caring. I can "gather evidence" just like feminists do, that it is only men who commit DV, that women are not paid the same for the same work, that women were historically oppressed and not protected and provided for. And most of that "evidence" will be accepted without scrutiny or validity because it paints women as victims and men as evil.

But it would still all be wrong, and I don't much see a need to reduce myself to lying.

The difference between me and French (and apparently you) is that my perceptions of the mistreatment are not rooted in histrionics and distortions. French may have been personally mistreated, I don't know. But I do know that women on the whole have historically enjoyed the knee jerk, life on the line protection of all men.

I also know that women on the whole have either participated in or sat by silently while the men who have protected them have been demonized, abused, mistreated and exploited.

In 25 years of experience as a men' activist I have not found that trying to reason with women about this does any good whatsoever. In fact, the mainstay of reactions to that have been to shame and chastise men who appeal to those women to reconsider our modern understandings.

So, the only thing that will eventually get their attention is to withdraw what they have always enjoyed and allow them the supposed self-sufficiency that feminism has always claimed to be their intent in the first place. If I had a nickel for every time I heard a woman utter "I don't need a man," in a snide, derisive tone, I'd be sipping some high dollar scotch on my Gulfstream right now.

So my vote is to follow these women's lead and give them what they want.

And maybe, just maybe, a some of them will see all they take for granted slipping away and say:

"Oh, shit."

And maybe not. But either way, it gives men a path to something they very much need.

Self care in a world that cares little about any of their problems.

[–][deleted]1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I mean, look at the misandry in you!

i'm aware that i've been taught to hate men, women, whites, blacks, jews and palestinians. care to elaborate?

Sure, I can "gather evidence" that the world is caring. I can "gather evidence" just like feminists do, that it is only men who commit DV

those are opposites.

The difference between me and French (and apparently you) is that my perceptions of the mistreatment are not rooted in histrionics and distortions.

you're traipsing around this thread telling people to fuck themselves for disagreeing with you. i see histrionics. and elucidate why my perceptions are rooted in histrionics and distortions.

But I do know that women on the whole have historically enjoyed the knee jerk, life on the line protection of all men.

indeed. it's important to acknowledge this.

I also know that women on the whole have either participated in or sat by silently while the men who have protected them have been demonized, abused, mistreated and exploited.

i know men who have let a woman get raped.

In 25 years of experience as a men' activist I have not found that trying to reason with women about this does any good whatsoever.

letting another human who is for all intents and purposes innocent in this war you're waging get hurt makes no sense to me. it's cruel, alienating, and doesn't accomplish anything.

So, the only thing that will eventually get their attention is to withdraw what they have always enjoyed and allow them the supposed self-sufficiency that feminism has always claimed to be their intent in the first place.

this is a good point, but i know more women who are good people and are trying to be fair. the loudmouth feminists have more in common with you than with these women, because you're both preaching separation and suffering.

So my vote is to follow these women's lead and give them what they want.

at what age does a female become the enemy? if she's 13 and being raped? if she's 14? 15? 16?

you've made a lot of assertions about me that have not explained or backed up. and i see a lot of holes in your worldview. the principal hole being that you are engaging in hardcore granfalloonism

[–]avoiceformen1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Actually, I only tell people to fuck themselves when they prove an inability to practice intellectual honesty. That isn't histrionics. It's common sense, and you are coming close to that status.

For instance, how many men have you known that allowed a woman to get raped? Come on out with it. It is the tipping point for you in this conversation. For if the number of men you have known who have "allowed" women to get raped is that significant, I will call you a liar and tell you to fuck off right now. It'll save time.

This is what I mean by your misandry. We have legions of cops that arrest men on women's say so about rape all the time, male dominated courts that falsely prosecute and convict those men, enabling countless female liars to use innocent men to cover for consensual sex that they later regret, and here you are citing men you know as what, a counterbalance or mitigation to the overall protection that women have always received?

C'mon, let 'er rip dude. I want some numbers.

[–][deleted]1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

For instance, how many men have you known that allowed a woman to get raped? Come on out with it. It is the tipping point for you in this conversation.

i know two. same instance of rape. they did not see the rape, but they saw the guy following, knew what was going to happen, talked about it, did nothing.

you said that if you had a nickel for every time a woman... and then described something that would cost you millions of nickels. you're being histrionic.

and here you are citing men you know as what, a counterbalance or mitigation to the overall protection that women have always received?

it was relevant to the conversation. i had an ex that tried to get pregnant to trap me, i had another ex who was a completely irrational feminist, if you go by the very liberal definition of rape that some people use, i've been raped by two girlfriends. i was also molested by 5 or 6 men. and have been sexually harrassed by women. that wasn't relevant to the conversation.

[–]avoiceformen1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you for proving my point so precisely and effectively.

With the scores of men falsely imprisoned for rape, a false rape allegation rape of at least 40%, and men being killed, maimed, raped and socially destroyed as a result of those allegations, a society that by and large ignores the problem and gives women a pass, you come up with TWO men who you ALLEGE knew about a rape before it happened and concluded that this represents a problem in light of the massive protections afforded women in this culture.

It is just lame, in the most concise definition of the word.

And by the way, I wish I had a nickel for every numb nuts I have encountered who looked a a common turn of phrase like "I wish I had a nickel" and concluded it was histrionics.

I would take up permanent residence in a Parisian brownstone. No wait, man, don't get out your calculator. It was just a figure of speech.

Sheesh.

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You keep avoiding the point by striking out at what you believe were my intentions, not what I have been saying.

Your intentions are of no consequence to me. Nor are your words when you presume to diagnose others over the net.

Why do you gleefully portray a lack of empathy toward others on the internet?

Because I can.
Because I choose to do so.
Because there's nothing you can do to stop me.

It was naive of you to expect honesty from me. You haven't earned the right.

How many times have you used the phrase "fuck off and die" in the past day?

I tend to stop counting after I hit 65536.

By the by, wondering about your possible personality disorder, as gleaned by your writing, is absolutely valid to the discussion.

Then you should have no objection to my thinking that you're a sanctimonious cunt who, instead of considering for a nanosecond the possibility that I might have reason to be callous towards strangers, instead decides that I must be a sociopath. Fuck off and die.

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Title	A Message for White Knights
Author	avoiceformen
Upvotes	0
Comments	102
Date	March 3, 2011 6:12 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/fwp0a/a_message_for_white_knights/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-message-for-white-knights.1042550 https://theredarchive.com/post/1042550

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