Height really does matter in a relationship - for women at least

[–]IcarusBurning 21 points22 points23 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]rem0nster -8 points-7 points-6 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]emperorhirohito 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Blutarg 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]rem0nster -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOne 14 points15 points16 points 11 years ago* (59 children) | Copy Link

Another social issue that feminism has conveniently chosen to ignore, or to justify because it benefits women. But, realistically, if you're a grown woman and you're still looking to men to "feel protected", you should really grow up. Children need to feel protected. As an adult, you should be able to take care of yourself(and others if need be) and feel confident enough in yourself that you always feeling the need to be protected by others. At the very least, you should be intelligent enough to know that height has nothing to do with how well someone can protect themselves/others. It is no longer a man's role to protect women. Equal benefits means equal responsibilities.

Heightism from women, against men exclusively, is a gender issue. It is a form of social/cultural discrimination that stems from gender roles, a lack of accountability from women, immaturity and an unwillingness from women to think outside their own comfort zone. It's not just "personal preference", it's a wide-spread cultural issue, and we need to push women(and men) to question those norm, or why they put so much stake into those norms when there are really no valid reasons to.

[–]Blutarg 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]T34_B4991n5 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]therearedozensofus12 11 years ago [recovered] (55 children) | Copy Link

I feel like this is just as much on men as women. Yeah, lots of women prefer a taller guy, but just as many men hate dating women taller than they are, finding it emasculating. I don't see men feeling emasculated by taller women as the fault of feminism.

[–]ExpendableOne 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago* (32 children) | Copy Link

but just as many men hate dating women taller than they are,

Not true at all. There are men out there who do feel insecure about dating taller women but not only are they in the minority(especially compared to the number of women who have a problem with shorter men) but those who do have a problem with taller women still don't make it as much of an issue, or a mandatory pre-requisite, the way so many women do towards men. A shorter man who is insecure about his height would still have sex with a taller woman, and would still be attracted to a good looking taller woman, even if he feels a bit self-concious about the fact that he's with a taller woman.

Also, heightism from women towards men is something that is shared by both short and tall women alike. Tall men will still be attracted to both tall and short women. Short women, however, still tend to only idealize tall men.

I don't see men feeling emasculated by taller women as the fault of feminism.

Men feeling emasculated by women is really a non-issue at this point, and feminists would generally have no problem targeting any man who dares judge a woman negatively for being taller than him(feminism has been fairly successful in both dismantling gender roles for women, meaning that "short=feminine" isn't as much of a thing anymore, and establishing body acceptance for women, exclusively, as a social must). Most often they don't even bother becase, again, they just don't care about what shorter man might have to think and therefore easily dismissed(though you'll still find some cases of men being attacked for saying something bad about tall women), but that's totally besides the point.

Feminism has always claimed itself to be about equality and ending gender roles but, when it comes to heightism against men(an issue that is entirely driven by gender roles and double-standards against men), they are either silent on the issue or actively defending women who perpetuate the issue.

Even if there were just as many men who have this strict rule against taller women, that still wouldn't change the fact that this should have been a gender issue addressed by any kind of genuine egalitarian effort. The fact that feminists chose not to address this type of issue, just goes to show how uninterested with dealing with gender issues that don't benefit women. It's like the "glass ceiling" vs the "glass cellar" debate, where it's also clear that feminism is completely uninterested in equality whenever it stops benefiting women.

[–]PoopJuiceExtract5 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Blutarg 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]therearedozensofus12 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Because women who are extremely tall and extremely thin look best in the clothes that the designers send for them to model. They aren't chosen because of their attractiveness to men, but for how attractive other women perceive them in the clothes they're wearing.

[–]overtorqued_nut 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]therearedozensofus12 11 years ago [recovered] (27 children) | Copy Link

You have some really good points, but I feel like this is a petty issue compared to the other men's rights issues that feminists should be working on, such as circumcision and societal acceptance of female on male domestic violence.

How would you prefer to feminist movement to address this issue? I'm assuming you have a lot of ideas on how they could do so already, otherwise you wouldn't be so passionate about the topic.

[–]ExpendableOne 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[+]therearedozensofus12 11 years ago [recovered] (17 children) | Copy Link

Heightism affects both men and women. I'm a 5'8" woman, and I've gotten a LOT of nasty comments from similarly-heighted boyfriends about it. The real deal is owning your height, man or woman. If you're short and bitter about it, girlfriends and potential girlfriends will be turned off by your bitter short man syndrome. But if you're short and dgaf about it, women aren't going to be bothered by it, either. One of my exes is a typical short and stocky Eastern European guy, and I always thought it said a lot about his self-esteem and security with his masculinity that he truly didn't care when I towered over him in heels.

But I'm curious, how do you propose fixing heightism against men? What, specifically, should feminist-leaning companies and non-profits be doing to draw more attention to this issue? You obviously have a lot of thoughts on this, I'd just like to know what your ideas are.

[–]ExpendableOne8 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Heightism affects both men and women.

Yes, technically you are right, but you are completely wrong in thinking that it's in any way equitable. It's really not, not even close, and you are completely trivializing the issue by insinuating that they are. Heightism against men is, without question, on a whole other level, and there are so many other relevant factors that play into this issue that simply make the disparity of this issue, between men and women, that much wider. When you ignore all of those, you are not really assessing the problem fairly or accurately.

I'm a 5'8" woman, and I've gotten a LOT of nasty comments from similarly-heighted boyfriends about it.

So, they were your boyfriends, but somehow you still think that their comments were on par with the attitudes that women have towards men? You are literally talking from a position of power, approval and desirability, from multiple men, and still trying to argue that the comments you have received from your boyfriends were comparable to comments that short men would receive from women who would never want to date them in the first place?

Not only that but you are also building this opinion on men that you have personally chosen to date, and explicitly chosen to surround yourself with for their opinions, and comparing that small subset of men to general attitudes that are shared by the greater majority of women?

I'm sorry but that is all incredibly biased and intellectually dishonest. You are distorting the facts, and the reality of those situations, to suit your own argument.

The real deal is owning your height, man or woman.

No. For women "owning your height" is irrelevant, since men would find women attractive regardless of how confident their feel in their height. For men "owning your height" is only relevant for the women who were already open to dating a shorter man, to every other woman(the greater majority) it really doesn't matter how confident you are in your height because you will be written off, long before confidence ever comes into play, regardless.

If you're short and bitter about it, girlfriends and potential girlfriends will be turned off by your bitter short man syndrome

"Bitter short man syndrome"? Really? You realize how incredibly insulting that is, right? Not only is it de-legitimizing completely valid anger/frustration, as a result of social prejudice towards short-men, but it is in of itself a blatant attempt to belittle all short men as well. If tall men were treated in a certain way, calling it "bitter tall man syndrome" would be pretty insulting too.

But if you're short and dgaf about it, women aren't going to be bothered by it, either.

That is blatantly untrue, and you would know how untrue this is if you had any experience dealing with heightism from women as a man. It's like saying to a black man "just stop giving a fuck about racism, and then racism will go away", in an era when racism was actually rampant. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away. Insinuating that all short men have to do to fix heightism is "be more confident" is not only incredibly misguided and ignorant, but it completely trivializes the issue(not to mention that confidence, as a general rule, isn't just built on nothing, confident people are confident because they received positive reinforcement throughout their lives. Often times, women use "confidence" as a means of expressing interest in physical traits that led those men to receive the necessary positive reinforcement to build that confidence in the first place, hoping not to appear as shallow/judgemental).

What, specifically, should feminist-leaning companies and non-profits be doing to draw more attention to this issue?

That depends on if "feminist-leaning" companies still define feminism as being activism for women exclusively or as a genuine egalitarian movement. If it's the former, than they should maybe put in some effort into convincing women that they actually have a lot to gain by embracing short men the way they do tall men(or by not completely shutting out, sexually and emotionally, a good portion of the male population right off the bat). If it's the former, than the effort should be to hold women accountable for their actions/beliefs, the same way we do men, and preach an egalitarian approach to dating/sex instead of an approached based on negative stereotyping and belittlement of shorter men.

[–]therearedozensofus12-2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOne4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Tom Cruise and Josh Hutcherson have reached a level of stardom that far exceeds Gwendolyn's, and are often portrayed on film as being taller than they actually are(because it makes them more likeable, and sellable, to the general audience). They are also often portrayed in movies in ways that make them desirable to the opposite sex(tom being the hero, and josh the vulnerable good guy), where as gwen is mostly known for riding around in full armor and being a stuck up knight.

Also, when people see those men in real life, you will still often see women openly mocking and ridiculing their height, or belittling their success because of it. Gwendolyn might not appeal to most men but I would say that would have far more to do with her general body proportions and face than height alone. There are certainly plenty of other tall stars out there who are considered to be very attractive among the general male population. You are picking and choosing your examples poorly. It would be like me comparing Aziz Ansari with Rebecca Romijn or Uma Thurman(in their prime).

In any case, comparing celebrities to your average joes is kind of a pointless endeavour. Anyone who has any kind of celebrity status would be able to find suitors, because of that celebrity status. Major figures are desirable because their popularity maintains the illusion of desirability.

[–]therearedozensofus121 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]augustfell3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOne2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think it's pretty telling that there are WAY more hyper-successful short male actors than hyper-successful tall female actresses..

Not sure about that one. Most movies tend to feature more male protagonists and antagonists, so that could certainly be a factor. Male actors also tend to be "in their prime" longer, and women tend to obsess far more over male movie stars than the other way around. There are still plenty of really successful tall actresses and models though. Tall isn't just 6'3" and above for women too, Christie is an extreme by all regards. There are no hyper successful men below 5', unless you count peter dinklage.

Christie is an extremely attractive woman

That's your opinion. I don't agree and it has nothing to do with her height. There are certainly plenty of tall beautiful women out there, I just don't consider her one of them. The fact that she has "model" on her resume doesn't really mean anything. Anyone can title themselves models if you put them in-front of a camera.

when she isn't required to look like a body builder and isn't been made up specifically to look more masculine

So, pretty much the only role she's known for? How is that helping your argument? She's beautiful when she's not playing the only role that made her success in the first place...

[–]zktr1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Terraneaux1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kragshot1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Blutarg 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[+]therearedozensofus12 11 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

I feel like we do get a lot of that already, to some extent. There are a LOT of short actors that women overwhelmingly find attractive (Josh Hutcherson, Tom Cruise), but no obese actresses that are considered attractive by large numbers of men.

[–]zktr2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]therearedozensofus121 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]zktr2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]therearedozensofus121 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]zktr1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Not all - most. It's not based on just one comment. I've heard other ladies imply the same thing too many times to remember. The most recent - I was on a hike last weekend and I overheard a lady casually mention that another guy on the hike is short - but he's taller than me, and I'm 5' 9.5", and I was wearing thick soles that made me seem closer to 5' 11". So basically she was calling a guy who's about 6 feet tall "short".

Another recent example: I was talking with a really short girl (she's like 5' 1") and something came up in the conversation that made me joke about her being kind of short. She replied, "You're pretty short too". Again, I was wearing thick soles that made me seem around 5' 11". Compared to her I was a giant, but she still saw me as short.

And like I said before, I've heard so many ladies say that they wouldn't date a guy who's under 6 feet (and once a girl said at least 6' 1" to another girl who agreed). The average adult male height is 5' 10". If that's not a distorted view of what's short, I don't know what is.

[–]ExpendableOne1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]zktr 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]therearedozensofus12 -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]zktr 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (19 children) | Copy Link

[+]therearedozensofus12 11 years ago [recovered] (18 children) | Copy Link

During. One guy insisted on referring to me as "big girl" even when I explained calmly a few times that I didn't like it (and it definitely wasn't about my weight, I'm 5'8" & 120lbs). He stopped only when I started calling him "little buddy" in response. Another guy always called me his "Amazon". The boyfriend who took me to my junior prom was livid when he picked me up to find me in heels (standing a full inch above him), and refused to speak to me the whole night, eventually saying that I'd "made a fool" of him by making him look "like a fucking action figure".

That being said, this all happened when I was in high school. Short teenage guys are a loooooot less secure with their masculinity than older men are. My college sweetheart was the typical short and stocky Eastern European guy, and I found it really attractive that he owned his 5'6" stature and was never bothered by it. It showed a lot of self-esteem and healthy self image, to me.

[–]zktr4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Interesting. Looks to me like the comments weren't indications that they found your height unattractive - rather, they were just poking a little fun at you while kind of being jerks. The fact that they were dating you is proof enough that they found you attractive. The thing about heels seems to me like he was embarrassed about his own height, rather than your height. But most guys aren't gonna not date a girl they're attracted to just because they're a little embarrassed about how the girl makes them look in comparison.

I dunno, I never actually realized that I was considered short (5' 9.5") until sometime in college, then kind of forgot about it, and then was reminded again in my social interactions after I graduated. I had no idea why I had such bad luck - I had always heard that girls "don't care about looks", which I've since learned is complete bullshit.

[–]therearedozensofus121 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]zktr3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Maybe some guys are like that, but you wouldn't believe how many ladies in real life I've heard flat out say that they aren't interested in a guy under 6 feet (and once I heard 6' 1"), and how often I hear girls say or strongly imply that they want a guy who's tall. One example: this past December I went on a "Santa Pub Crawl" where everyone dressed up in Santa costumes (minus the beard) and went to a bunch of clubs. A random lady at a club that I was walking past said "Hey Santa!" I stopped and said "What do you want for Christmas?" She replied: "A guy who's over 6 feet".

There are more factors than just height though, and that could explain you and your friends. I've noticed and had it confirmed by others that girls are also really into square/wide jawlines (like Brad Pitt and Ashton Kutcher), and to a lesser extent guys with broad shoulders. Personality can also contribute to an extent. Another consideration is how much luck you and your friends have at getting dates with the guys you're most attracted to - you might want to date Ashton Kutcher, but you can't, so you make compromises.

[–]therearedozensofus120 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We don't have problems dating the men we find most attractive, but thanks for the concern.

I see where you're coming from about height, absolutely. But you're making this about more than height now, implying that it's a Men's Rights issue that women find men with symmetrical features or square jawlines to be more attractive than those without. That's not women being discriminatory against men. It sounds like you're saying, "it's a problem for the MRM that women do not find all men equally attractive". Women are allowed to have standards, too.

Both genders have standards, and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't have a problem with a plus-sized model on the cover of Vogue, same way I don't have a problem with a short man on a movie poster. I just don't see this as a Men's Rights issue.

[–]zktr2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I agree that it's not a men's rights issue that women are more attracted to some looks than others. What is a men's rights issue / anti-modern-feminism issue is the implications of this. Modern feminists go around vilifying guys for being attracted to women for their looks (they call it "objectification"), even though women do the same thing. They go around saying things like "guys would be just as interested in obese women if it weren't for The Patriarchy brainwashing them into wanting thin women", ignoring the fact that women are just as picky about other physical aspects (and ignoring the fact that there's plenty of scientific evidence that these preferences arise from instincts, and ignoring the scientific consensus that obesity is extremely unhealthy). It's fine for ladies to have preferences, but it's not fine for them to simultaneously say that it's not okay for guys to have preferences.

[–]therearedozensofus120 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]zktr2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Not exactly what I said - I said that basically all modern feminists say that attraction is a "social construct", and therefore guys shouldn't be any more attracted to thin ladies than to obese ladies. But then they say that gays being attracted to the same sex isn't socialized, which is contradictory (though I agree with that - it's what the scientific evidence says). Glad we agree that "healthy at any size" is BS, but every self-proclaimed feminist I've ever met in person or encountered online gets mad when I say anything that in any way implies that obese women are unattractive, and when a discussion is had, their argument always boils down to what I just said. And they all rally around this "objectification" idea, which is just "a guy being physically attracted to a lady", ignoring the fact that ladies also judge guys' looks.

[–]therearedozensofus12-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Dude, all modern feminists do not say that. I identify as a dictionary-definition feminist (I can be that and an egalitarian), and I think that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I hate fringe feminists and SJWs just as much as I can only assume you do, but to use them as the standard by which you judge all women is absurd and slightly sexist. Again, that's like me judging the MRM, or al men as a whole, by the MRM fringe ephebophiles who want to do away with age of consent laws.

There's nothing wrong with having standards. But what bothers me is that you seem to be trying to shame all women for being shallow hypocrites because a few fringe radical feminists (who to you are representative of 1/2 the population, apparently) shame men for their own natural physical preferences in women. Doesn't that make you just as bad?

[–]zktr1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The thing is that modern feminists are the "fringe feminists". If you're a dictionary-definition feminist, there's really no need to call yourself a feminist, since there's almost no one that disagrees with what the original, historical feminism set out to accomplish, and did accomplish. There are no rights that men have that women don't have. The dictionary states the definition based on the original, historical movement. That movement is not the same thing as the modern-day ideology.

The original feminism was an adjustment to society to allow new lifestyle possibilities that became possible as a result of the Industrial Revolution (this is what the US high school AP History curriculum says). Most significantly: the invention and widespread availability of birth control. After the original feminism achieved its goals, it was taken over by extremists (like Gloria Steinem), and that's what it is today. If you're not an extremist, there's no reason to use the label. It's kind of like calling yourself a "Tea Partier" - the Boston Tea Party was an important historical event, but obviously the people who call themselves that today are not the same thing. Most Americans would say that they support the ideals of the Boston Tea Party, but that doesn't mean everyone should go around calling themselves "dictionary-definition tea partiers".

I'm only trying to "shame" modern feminists, because they're being obnoxiously outspoken over something they're being hypocritical about.

I forgot to reply to your earlier statement that I'm using "feminists" and "women" interchangeably - I may have accidentally done that a few times. It's an easy mistake to make, because A.) Feminists claim to speak for all women, B.) Modern feminists are mostly women, along with a few guys that go along with it for one reason or another, and C.) This conversation is partially about women.

[–]therearedozensofus121 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]zktr1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sometimes dictionary definitions are out-of-date or incomplete. An example: the dictionary definition of "Freemason" only describes the historical aspect of it, without even mentioning the elaborate conspiracy theories that surround it in modern times. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/freemason

The argument in that JPG is a false equivalence fallacy. To be a feminist doesn't just mean that you believe that men and women should have the same rights - it also means that you believe that men have rights that women don't have (and a whole bag of other stuff). In reality we don't have any rights that women don't have (though there are a few laws that are biased in favor of women). Would you call yourself an "abolitionist" because you believe that slavery is wrong? Obviously calling yourself an "abolitionist" in 21st century America makes no sense.

[–]zktr1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOne2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOne0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

"big girl"... "Amazon"

Come on, those are literally all terms of endearment. They are coming from your boyfriends, highlighting a lovable trait about you, not strangers trying to insult you(or deliberately trying to put you down like you were trying to do with "little buddy"). I don't see how you could even try to compare that with how women would treat short men for being short. You are comparing playful teasing, within a relationship, with deliberate vitriol and disdain to complete strangers. That's like saying a guy calling you "honey bunny" is as insulting to you as women calling men "creeps" and "gross". And, from what you've just said there, it seems like you were far more insecure about the height difference than they were and you chose to make them pay for it. If those men really actually thought your height was repulsive, they would have never dated you in the first place.

The boyfriend who took me to my junior prom was livid when he picked me up to find me in heels (standing a full inch above him), and refused to speak to me the whole night, eventually saying that I'd "made a fool" of him by making him look "like a fucking action figure".

That's his problems. Clearly that guy had some issues. Now imagine if the greater majority of women essentially treated shorter men the exact same way. Avoiding shorter guys at all cost because "I like to wear high heels" or "it would look weird".

Short teenage guys are a loooooot less secure with their masculinity than older men are.

Yes, highschool kids are typically a lot less mature and secure, and how they might be viewed by other students at that school is a much bigger factor to them because that's pretty much their entire world. Those would all have been relevant factors in those cases. That's not really on par with social disdain from women on a cultural/social level, which extends far beyond just highschool.

[–]therearedozensofus120 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

To say that the "great majority" of women treat all men under 5'10" with "social disdain" is really a bridge too far.

Women don't trend towards taller men because they're shallow, they trend towards taller men because men who are insecure about their heights often take that out on women, either by blaming their "shallowness" for their own insecurities, or by direct nastiness.

I in no way believe that you genuinely think that any random woman would find "big girl" or "Amazon" a term of endearment. Would a 5'5" man laugh off being addressed solely as "pipsqueak" by his girlfriend?

Women don't trend towards taller men because they have "social disdain" for men below 5'10", they do it because a lot of short men are really insecure about it, and they take it out on their partners. The same guy who reamed me out for daring to wear high heels constantly used his height as a straw man through which to criticize my appearance. I got a lot of, "why don't you wear makeup to bed?" and "why can't you join cheerleading like Eric's girlfriend?". When I tried to defend myself, all I got was, "well, YOU hate dating a short guy, and you can't even admit it, so you're a liar too. All I'm doing is being honest,". That women don't find short men attractive was so ingrained in his mind that even when he was dating a girl who obviously didn't care, he still couldn't let go of that idea.

In my experience, guys below average in height are VERY hung up on the false idea all women find them unattractive, so they start feeling insecure, they then try too hard and give off creepy or desperate vibes, which women find threatening and unattractive, so they don't succeed with women. This seems a lot more plausible to me than, "all women everywhere are shallow hypocrites".

Confidence is sexy. Own your height.

[–]ExpendableOne1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Confidence is sexy. Own your height.

Again with this ridiculous argument. It's completely false. I own my height. I've never gone around projecting insecurities to women about my height. I've never even wished I could be taller. None of that matters. Being confident does not change the way women treat, or value, shorter men. Every time you try to presume that this issue does not exist, or try to solve it with something as ridiculous as "just be confident", you are simply demonstrating just how out of touch you are with this issue, and just how easy it is for you to dismiss it by throwing any kind of non-sense and wishful thinking at it.

It's like trying to tell a soldier who was shot to just pray and the wound will heal itself. It's completely ineffective and completely ignorant of the problem and how to solve it. I don't understand how the concept of gender roles and social biases/trends, perpetuated and enforced by women, could be such a foreign and implausible scenario for you when there are examples of similar behaviours all around you and all throughout history. You see that kind of behaviour all over the world with racism and classism, as they extend to women's sexual and romantic preferences and how they treat men they deem as unworthy mates.

Would a 5'5" man laugh off being addressed solely as "pipsqueak" by his girlfriend?

See, it's like you don't get the difference. Pipsqueak would be intentionally hurtful. Amazon and big girl are not. Amazons is a term used to identify badass female warriors, which can be hot as fuck for men(there is such a thing as power fantasies). You taking offence to it is your insecurities, or your negative attitude towards the word, creating a negative reaction. It is your inability to find beauty in that word, not his. "Big girl", coming from a guy, is also not an meant to be belittling or insulting(guys refer to each other as "big guy" some times, and it typically is used to resonate some kind of awe effect and grand stature), again that is your insecurities towards that word, not his. You are taking something positive and turning into a negative, and you are comparing it to something that is deliberately negative. There is no positive form of "pipsqueak", it's a deliberate insult. Your argument would have made more sense if those guys were complete strangers calling you "Egor" or "Andre the giant" or something like that.

Kind of irrelevant but, one of my female friends(who was short) had the nickname "big red" within our group. It was never used in a malevolent way by anyone in the group. It was a nickname that had just caught on because it was likeable. She never took offensive to it because there was never anything to take offence to. A taller woman, who might have taken offence to it, would have done so because of her own negative feelings about being tall, not because she was actually being teased.

Women don't trend towards taller men because they have "social disdain" for men below 5'10", they do it because a lot of short men are really insecure about it, and they take it out on their partners.

Jesus christ that is so absurd. I cannot believe that you would even try to say that shit and pass it as a serious argument. No, women don't just treat short guys like shit because they are insecure about their height. Those guys are insecure about their height because women treat them like shit for it. The fact that some men can still remain confident in-spite of that adversity doesn't mean that the insecurity isn't justified or that the treatment that leads to that insecurity isn't there.

Fact is, with everything else being equal, most women would pick an insecure tall guy over a secure short guy any day. And, even if you were even remotely right, do you not understand how incredibly offensive and absurd of an argument that would be? Basically "women don't like short men because all women have decided to stereotype all short men as being insecure about their height and, therefore, completely unsuitable partners". How could you possibly try to justify that kind of reasoning with a straight face?

The same guy who reamed me out for daring to wear high heels constantly used his height as a straw man through which to criticize my appearance. I got a lot of, "why don't you wear makeup to bed?" and "why can't you join cheerleading like Eric's girlfriend?".

Why are you still even using this person as an example? It is clear that this person had a lot of other problems of his own, and with you which had nothing to do with your height. "Wear make up in bed" has nothing to do with height. "Be a cheerleader" or "be more ambitious" has nothing to do with height. How is it acceptable for you to create this stereotype of short men in your head, using this guy, just because he was short? Whatever other issues he had, you can't just say "well, he was short, so that's probably why he acted that way and all short guys must be the same". That is fucked up. That's like me dating a blonde girl, who ends up being a fucking psycho, and then instead of saying "wow, that girl was psycho, I shouldn't date her", I say "Wow, that girl was blonde, must be why she was a psycho, I should avoid all blondes from now on".

"well, YOU hate dating a short guy, and you can't even admit it, so you're a liar too. All I'm doing is being honest,"

Well, did you? I mean, how do I know his assessment was entirely without justification? How would I know if his fears and insecurities were, or weren't, justified? For all I know, you could have done all kinds of stuff in during your relationship with him to make him feel that way, some of which you may not even be aware of. I don't know. All I have is your side of the story, which could be missing all kinds of pertinent details and be entirely biased. Either way, none of this is actually relevant. You simply cannot dismiss cultural trends, and facts, just because your interpretation of your own personal experiences are different from so many others(especially not when you have never actually experienced life as a short man yourself, dealing with women).

[–]zktr 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SCROTAL-SACK 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

They want men to be taller.. AND they want to artificially increase their own height by up to 6+ inches with heels at the same time.. They want guys in shape.. AND they want in shape guys to find them attractive even when they're a fat slob. They want guys to be naturally attractive, while wearing an all-out mask of makeup designed to change the whole structure of their face. They call guys who take care of themselves and their skin "insecure", yet spend thousands on invasive surgery to enhance breast size, inject blood into their twats, and pump their lips up with callogen.. And they have the audacity to call themselves real women..

This is woman logic (of these kind anyway, not all mind you). There is none. Just demanding adult toddlers who make no sense. Why do men entertain it rather than laugh in their faces?

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Title	Height really does matter in a relationship - for women at least
Author	jimrosenz
Upvotes	40
Comments	69
Date	June 12, 2015 9:47 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/39kddn/height_really_does_matter_in_a_relationship_for/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/height-really-does-matter-in-a-relationship-for.977798 https://theredarchive.com/post/977798

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