Let's support some feminist ideals?

dejour · 2015-01-17T17:54:17+00:00

I like the idea. Maybe frame it as, "Feminist ideas that fit with men's rights".

In order for it to be effective, men's rights should be repeatedly mentioned. And it shouldn't be seen as a general endorsement of all feminist ideas.

I'm sick of the MRM being attacked by strawmen, so pointing out actual areas of agreement is a good thing.

That said, there are a lot of flavors of mras. I think the large "egalitarian" subset of MRAs could compose a long list. But there are other sections of the MRM. There are probably pretty few feminist ideals that will be embraced by every single MRA.

genderbent · 2015-01-18T00:49:27+00:00

i fully support this idea, and i think it is the only way the MRM will achieve mainstream acceptance anytime soon

Lurker_IV · 2015-01-18T04:13:31+00:00

Sorry about the other posters /u/Satafly . Unfortunately most of the time its the angrier, more extreme people that do most of the posting here in /r/MensRights . The more moderate mostly just sit out these things.

I agree with you that something like an IFF day would be good here. IFF meaning Identify (the) Friendly Feminist day.

Most casual feminists also think feminism is just about equality because they aren't involved in the actual politics or activism that does so many bad things. It would be good to have more of them on our side.

atheist4thecause · 2015-01-17T17:05:42+00:00

Well, this is a men's rights subreddit. It's not a support feminism subreddit. It really doesn't fit. People individually support different things within the feminist movement if it matches up. There are certain Equality Feminists that are talked about a decent amount. I don't think this idea fits the purpose of this subreddit.

5HourEnergyExtra · 2015-01-17T17:47:22+00:00

What does everyone think of cherry-picking the best parts of feminism and broadcasting them?

That it's buying into feminist propaganda to beat us into submission and that it will NEVER be reciprocated. It will ONLY be seen as a concession and further vilify men's rights.

Feminism has done a lot to mess with men but most of these women genuinely believe they're helping.

Then let's provide real information to them so that the good ones will turn.

I'd like to extend an olive branch and devote a week or a day to when feminism got it right.

Watch this video.

Just because 90% of their movement is fucked, it doesn't mean we can't acknowledge the 10% that are on point.

There isn't a 10% getting it right. The whole movement can be summed up into either the evil ones or the unaware who just like the terms 'feminism' and don't know a damn thing about it. The unaware do nothing but act like yesmen to the evil ones.

I love this subreddit. I frequent it all the time.

Really? Because never ever ever posting here and then only coming here to concern-troll is a funny way of showing it. How about contributing to the conversation and learning the situation we're actually in. Mensrights and feminism cannot get along in the same world because feminism is predicated on men having privilege. Just denying that is a refutation of feminism and feminists won't stand for it.

azazelcrowley · 2015-01-17T19:46:39+00:00

I support banning genital mutilation. And the feminists got that right when they-oh. No, they fucked that one up. Hm.

Well, I support shelters for domesti- oh, they fucked that up too.

Well, at least on Maternity and Patern- well shit.

Gee willikers, can anyone give me any hints as to when they got it right? As in, equality of the sexes, not just womens entitlements?

Well, they were right when they said the education system was biased against girls I guess, so good job. I said good job guys, you can stop now. Shit, fuck, stop alre- oh, now it's fucked up again. Well, you tried, I guess.

I'm sure some believe in equality. The problem is, they also believe their colleagues believe in equality despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. That makes them part of the problem. Either it is the single most incompetent movement in the history of the world, actively doing the opposite of it's stated goals every time it enters the scene (What a wonderful boost to the image of women that is. I maintain most of the negative image women have to put up with these days is a result of feminist campaigns painting them as weak, bigotted, ignorant, hysterical, terrified and morally obnoxious, when really, it's only the people in feminist organizations like that. Not even independent feminists.) or it's the most insidiously bigoted one. I lean toward the latter. The language is crafted by bigots, used by people blind to the bigotry, and perpetuates anti-male sentiments. Their policies are explicitly gynocentrist and actively harm males wherever they get laid down by purposefully or incompetently ignoring them at best, segregating them or targetting them maliciously at worst.

The movement is either so fucking stupid, or so fucking evil that it scarcely matters which it is anymore. I don't need to know if the person pointing a gun at me is just stupid and doesn't understand what they are doing, or trying to kill me, I need to know where my gun is. And the "Good" feminists who insist on going around calling themselves feminists are doing nothing but legitimizing a hate movement. Like a bunch of christian lovey dovey types insisting they are members of the KKK and getting butthurt when you say "No, you really aren't."

So these days i've just decided that anyone stupid enough to go around wearing pointy bedsheets deserves to be treated like a bigot. And if they complain that not all klan members are like that, I honestly don't give a shit.

guywithaccount · 2015-01-17T18:06:23+00:00

What does everyone think of cherry-picking the best parts of feminism and broadcasting them?

Thought we already had. There's an awful lot of hay on those needles, though.

aesopstortoise · 2015-01-17T18:39:42+00:00

Just send Christina Hoff Sommers a bunch of flowers.

DavidByron2 · 2015-01-17T19:33:41+00:00

most of these women genuinely believe they're helping

OK so first about 40% of feminists are men.

Secondly, no they don't genuinely believe they are helping.

Finally there's nothing good about feminism

Corn-Tortilla · 2015-01-17T20:00:14+00:00

No thank you. I don't support hate groups. Next.

MRSPArchiver · 2015-01-17T16:26:55+00:00

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guywithaccount · 2015-01-17T17:22:38+00:00

I think the time that's not used to promote men's rights should go to promoting jelqing. Feminists just make your penis shrivel up and you don't want that happening. Do jelqing instead as it will naturally enhance your penis, feminists hate it.

MittenMagick · 2015-01-17T17:25:19+00:00

If you look at the dictionary definition of MRA, it's "one who believes that men shouldn't be punished simply for being male," so if you believe that like that 10% of feminism, you're already an MRA! /s

kizzan · 2015-01-17T18:08:01+00:00

We support issues of equality, which in this society, is usually something men need. If what we support happens to be an issue that the feminist political machine supports, then so be it. But we are not here to support that poltical machine per se

KrisK_lvin · 2015-01-17T18:39:16+00:00

I'd like to ... devote a week or a day to when feminism got it right.

I think you would be very hard pressed to find something positive that Feminism has actually achieved as opposed to what its supporters parasitically and retrospectively co-opt as 'their victories'.

For instance, I'm just looking at a webpage now called The Kentucky Foundation for Women's Feminist Timeline. Included under the tag they describe as Political Feminist Achievements are:

1955 Rosa Parks refuses to give up her seat on the bus and her arrest spurs the Montgomery Bus Boycott

1960 Birth Control Pills become FDA approved

1969 The Stonewall Rebellion in NY starts the Gay Rights Movement

Excuse me, but how can any of these things be claimed to be achievements of Feminism, to be things that would not have come about but for Feminism's influence?

Feminism might wholeheartedly support these events, but that doesn't mean they can claim to have brought them about.

I think the same thing arguably applies to things like Equal Pay and Equal Opportunities legislation as well. Feminists certainly would have actively supported these measures, but how much did their efforts actually help to bring them about? I personally think it's quite likely that they would have come into being in the absence of anything like a politicised form of Feminism, through the work of trade unions and so on.

dejour · 2015-01-17T21:40:47+00:00

It would be tricky. I think it's easy to come up with a list of statements that feminists and MRAs would agree upon. In a lot of cases, the implications would still be different.

Here's my quick stab:

All men, women and children are equally important. Each human has inherent worth.
The safety, health and well being of a person should be equally valued - whether the person is male or female.
Men and women should be accorded the same rights, privileges and responsibilities.
Men and women should be considered legally and politically equal.
Men and women deserve equal say in our government institutions.
Men and women deserve the opportunity to be judged on their individual strengths and weaknesses - not on the basis of their gender.
Equal pay for equal work.
Prejudice and biases lead to women and men being treated and judged differently for the same actions.

With most of them, I think that MRAs and feminists could "agree" on the words. The interpretations might be very different.

For many feminists, it seems clear that "equal pay for equal work" means equal incomes for men and women, regardless of work. While MRAs would think: "Equal pay for equal work is great - but right now women and men don't do the same work."

The prejudice statement has similar problems. An MRA would say that men and women are not treated the same, and men are treated/judged worse in many, maybe most respects. Many feminists would think that women are treated worse in most respects and the ways men are treated worse aren't worth addressing.

I went here to look at basic feminist principles.

There's very little on the first slide that MRAs can agree with. Perhaps the idea that the relationship between men and women has almost always been unequal - with MRAs interpreting it to mean that women and men each had the upper hand in different areas of life.

AnarchCassius · 2015-01-22T00:57:30+00:00

I'd actually really like to see that. I think it's important to call out the good and the bad for attention. Most of what is labeled feminism is increasingly inert so it makes sense to focus on the important things.

Frankly there is a very small pool of sources I don't find absurdly biased toward one side or other and would love more balanced information and common ground.

Nomenimion · 2015-01-17T17:20:06+00:00

No, no, a thousand times no.

TomwaIvory · 2015-01-18T01:50:25+00:00

No.

Just because 90% of their movement is fucked, it doesn't mean we can't acknowledge the 10% that are on point.

By supporting any part of their movement you lend strength to the 90% who routinely cause damage to men's lives.

Feminism is evil plain and simple.

Dixieduffy · 2015-01-18T03:58:56+00:00

EDIT: Well then, you guys are pretty goddamn extreme

Well that could be that we get concern trolls like this A LOT.

Title	Let's support some feminist ideals?
Author	Satafly
Upvotes	0
Comments	32
Date	January 17, 2015 4:26 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2sqqyk/lets_support_some_feminist_ideals/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/lets-support-some-feminist-ideals.990309 https://theredarchive.com/post/990309

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