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Man Sues for Discrimination

MenandBoysareGood

December 5, 2015
94 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austrian-man-barred-from-ladies-night-lingerie-show-files-for-discrimination-a6761661.html
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Post Information
Title Man Sues for Discrimination
Author

MenandBoysareGood

Upvotes 94
Comments 22
Date December 5, 2015 7:16 PM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3vkkc8/man_sues_for_discrimination/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/man-sues-for-discrimination.965717
https://theredarchive.com/post/965717
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Comments

[+]_____D34DP00L_____ 10 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Can we actually celebrate the fact that Austria has taken this case seriously and already rightfully considers 'ladies nights' to be discriminatory?

[–]mwobuddy 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

More than that, a woman actually made a comment about how its not fair.

[–]_____D34DP00L_____ 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly! I feel that there isn't enough of this on the subreddit. Most women like us are Egalitarians and just want to live equally. But unfortunately there are also a bunch of twats who have loud voices that don't see men as human. A lot of the women in my life are sick of mainstream feminazism and I hope that this subreddit recognises that women are not enemies.

[–]mwobuddy 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The problem with moderates is that they are not as militant and vocal as extremists. That is why extreme groups win.

No one is vehemently and outspokenly neutral, marching on campuses "to make sure things stay as they are and don't get changed by some fringe party that is full of psychos".

Its time to stop being silent if you're a moderate.

[–]WhiteThrone 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What nights are Gentlemen's Nights ?

[–]MrDoradus 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh, I'm sure they have had at least one of those in the past, only to cover their arses of course. What I'd like to know is if they also ban women from those events.

[–]garglemesh42 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent question.

[–]mwobuddy 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Such an event is not only aimed at women, as we all know that men also buy underwear,” she said.

Love it. And its true, why is a lingerie event "women only"? He should've noted any other men who got in. Once again, though, you see men treated like pervs for wanting entrance to a show that is about women dressing sluttily to entice their potential one night stands or lovers.

I don't get how some women can be so hypocritically minded.

[–]BlacknOrangeZ 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I don't like these. This is a private business, they can allow or refuse entry to whoever they like. There are many men's spaces I would like to be maintained as well, and cases like this undermine those.

They have a right to discriminate. He has a right to be upset about it and share his experience. To sue them for it, however, for financial gain or to force them to be non-discriminatory for fear of persecution, is morally reprehensible.

[–]secv808 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I get what you're saying, but the opposite argument would ask how far are you willing to go with that line of reasoning. If they can deny men entry, can they then decide to deny lesbians entry? Can they later decide ethnic minorities are banned? If so, is denying service based on sex, religion, race, etc more or less morally reprehensible than making it illegal to discriminate?

[–]BlacknOrangeZ -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If they can deny men entry, can they then decide to deny lesbians entry? Can they later decide ethnic minorities are banned?

Yes. Of course they can. It's their own private property, they can allow or deny whoever the hell they like on their property.

Just like if a violent criminal knocks on my door, I don't have to let him in. Nobody can force you to associate with someone you don't want to associate with (not only is it ethically wrong, but I would argue that it is socially harmful). Am I discriminating against the crim? Hell yes I am. Are you going to sue me? Or is this case ok because you arbitrarily agree?

Why is it that you think the moment a private property offers a product or service, they ought to forfeit this right to discriminate in the eyes of the law?

Also, why do you think it's necessary? Are you going to shop at a store with a sign over the door saying "NO ASIANS"? I'm a white guy and I wouldn't go near the fucking place, and I would criticise/ostracise anyone I knew who did shop there. So they're not only disallowing a lot of potential Asian customers from trading with them, but also alienating a lot of people who disagree with their practices. All in all, racism is a disastrous business decision.

You can't use the force of the state to impose your own morality on the world and still pretend that you have the moral high ground. That is a revolting abuse of power.

These businesses have the right to discriminate just as much as you have the right to discriminate who can use your toothbrush. It's private property, they're not doing anything wrong by denying people access for whatever reason they like. If you don't like it, don't give them your money. Socially-responsible behaviour is very strongly incentivised by the free market.

[–]secv808 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Touching on the last part there, the long history of corporate crime does not point to socially responsible behavior being incentivized.

[–]BlacknOrangeZ 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Such as? Tell me a single time where a company did something morally reprehensible and it was lauded in the media and public discussion. "Volkswagen manipulated their emissions testing results, oh boy what a great company! I'm going to rush out and buy a new VW!"

[–]secv808 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not incentivized over monetary gain, and doubly so when the business has enough market share. Whether they were praised or not, the incentive for financial gain or minimization of loss is enough to commit the crime. Chiquita financed paramilitary groups in South America in violation of anti-terrorism laws, even after being advised it was illegal to do so. They are still a massive brand in the US, so clearly that hasn't driven away consumers. Verizon proposed a self-regulatory model based on based on the oversight of "literally hundreds of thousands of sophisticated online users" then injected tracking headers into customer data streams for two years before anyone caught on. Then it took them six months to add an opt-out (not opt-in to being tracked) option after having been found out. They are still the largest telecom company in the US and aren't going anywhere. Alongside Comcast, they aren't going anywhere no matter how hated or anti-social their behavior is.

[–]charliebeanz 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree. Didn't want to say anything because I'm female, but although 'men buy underwear too' and regardless of his reasons for being there, I think it's a bit short sighted on his part to expect to let in to a lingerie show that's marketed as 'ladies night'. I wouldn't expect to be allowed into a banana hammock show on night marketed as 'men's night'.

And I'd feel like a creep doing it.

[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It wasn't marked as ladies' night.

He said the invitation email had not mentioned that single men were not allowed to attend.

When he complained on the shop's Facebook page about his treatment, he was told the event was a "ladies night".

"Dear Mr S., we're very sorry but the event was a Ladies Night. We look forward to welcoming you in the future to an event in our men's department."

They told him it was a Ladies' night AFTER he complained. You have to understand they're lying.

[–]Moonvie 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If it was invitational only and he got an invitation, barring his entry saying it's a "ladies night" is what's wrong in here. You don't invite someone and tell them to go home at the entrance.

I don't like stuff like this either though, but bullshit is bullshit and best way for people to see the bullshit is to experience it first hand. Ladies nights and gentlemen's clubs have their reasons for existing.

[–]BlacknOrangeZ -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's true that the invitation does change things a little, though not to any great extent in my mind. They still retain the right to discriminate in my view, it's just that they've been even more crappy in the inconvenience they've caused. Perhaps it should've been apparent to him that his invitation was conditional on being accompanied by his wife though (which, again, you may not like, but that doesn't trump their right to pick and choose who is allowed on to their property).

[–]TheDude41 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good for him.

[–]a_posh_trophy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He's clearly a pervert and deserves no sympathy.

/s

[–]coke501 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I sure am happy to live in austria. While there's the occasional feminist BS (gender neutral anthem) most of the time gender issues are handled rather sane.

[–]wrez 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Gendered discrimination is never just!

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