"Man Up"

AnonTheAnonymous · 2012-04-02T03:46:30+00:00

Feminists want women to be able to get abortions, but also campaign to make men pay as much as they can for child support with no say in being a father. Feminists fight to take away a mans right to defend himself or be assumed innocent until proven guilty if he is accused of rape, domestic violence, ect. Feminist fight to keep men enslaved to ex wives with alimony and fight to make that alimony absurdly high. Feminists fight against men having a male birth control pill, including Betty Freidan. Feminists make up rape statistics and generally do what they can to bastardize men and boys as much as they can. Feminists are enemies of men's rights. A feminist who doesn't hate men and then says feminism doesn't hate men is like a christian who doesn't have anything against gay people and then says Christianity doesn't have anything against gay people. They both do not understand they ideology they claim to be a part of, and simply make up their own definition and can't understand why nobody accepts their subjective definition despite it being totally apart from what their organized beliefs are.

SpeakToTheSky · 2012-04-02T03:59:27+00:00

I am going to specifically address your question on Feminists forcing men into traditional gender roles, because that is actually a really good question we don't talk about enough on /MR. There are many ways that Feminists force men into traditional gender roles. Here are a few:

Men Can Stop Rape, Men Can Stop Sexual Harrassment, Men Can Stop Domestic Violence, etc - This is an argument made Ad Nauseum by Feminists. It reinforces traditional gender roles because it puts men in the position of being the "protector" without any reciprocal responsibility of the female. There is never any acknowledgement from most Feminists that men can be raped, men can be abused, men can be harassed. Nor is there any acknowledgement that women can play a part in stopping rape, harrassment, and abuse. In reality, men and women can help each other stop these horrible things. But do we ever hear that from Feminists? Mostly, no. They are focused on making the safety and comfort of the female the responsibility of the male, without any reciprocal behavior expected from the woman.
We Have A Responsibility To "Save" Women In Oppressive Cultures- One of the most persistent arguments for American invasions of Muslim countries is to "save the women." This argument has been made by female and male feminists and chivalrists. As men account for the vast, vast majority of deaths from our violent interventions, this forces men into the traditional role of fighting and dying to "save women."
A La Carte Feminism- This is the persistent phenomenon of self-described Feminists picking and choosing which elements of equality and traditionalism suit them the most. As you may know, most women still expect men to "take the lead" financially and otherwise in dating relationships. Most women still also expect chivalrous behavior, which could be as innocuous as opening a can of pickles or as dire as literally dying for the protection of women. When Feminists reject traditionalism when they feel like it but expect traditionalism when it suits them, this forces men into traditionalist roles.
Alimony, Child Support, Child Custody- Feminist groups routinely lobby against efforts to make alimony, child support and child custody more fair, even though the unfairness came about because the laws were put in place under the belief that the man is the "provider" and the woman is the "homemaker." When Feminists oppose reform, they push men into the traditionalist role of mute and uncomplaining "provider for women."
Feminist Denial and Exacerbation of Male Pain and Male Disenfranchisement- The denial of male disenfranchisement places men in the "disposable" role that we historically faced in traditional societies.

These are just a few examples.

I'm not going to address your fallacious claims that Feminism and Men's Rights can help each other. A supremacist hate cult has nothing to offer men.

Stratisphear · 2012-04-02T03:15:26+00:00

I'm just answering 2, no personal knowledge of 1.

The main reason feminists won't be allies with us is because they don't understand that Pro-men's rights does not equal Anti-women's rights. (Fun fact I just discovered, my spell check sees Pro-women's as a valid word, but not Pro-men's) They believe that to fight FOR men's rights, we need to be fighting AGAINST something. And because there's nothing else in the gender binary, we must be attacking WOMEN.

There's also a possibility that they won't because they need somebody to fight against. In my personal experience, they will fight against anything they can. (For example, not being allowed to yell "CUNT" for 40 minutes in a privately owned building is horrible oppression, many claimed. True story.)

OThomson · 2012-04-02T02:44:04+00:00

1) Women are saying 'Man up' because they can't find anyone who will marry them on their terms.

2) Because Feminists, Can, Will, and Have campaigned against us on Crucial issues.

BinaryShadow · 2012-04-02T05:31:50+00:00

Feminists hate traditional roles for women, but want to keep men in their place to subsidize women's new "freedom."

IN other words, "man up" and pay child support to a child you didn't want (or isn't even yours to begin with). "Man up" and pay alimony to your ex who cheated on you and no-faulted you out of her way. "Man up" and work 60 hour weeks only to come home and be bitched at how you're never home. "Man up" and get a job you lazy bum because your wife doesn't feel like working to help pay the bills.

And my personal favorite: "Man up" and jump, balls first, into the first marriage opportunity you can so that you can subject yourself and all your savings to this rigged game otherwise you're just a manchild.

themountaingoat · 2012-04-02T03:42:30+00:00

Maybe they aren't the primary group doing it, but they are certainly doing it, and the other groups doing it aren't calling themselves gender equality movements, so it is much worse when they do it.

2012-04-02T15:31:16+00:00

Feminism has a large stake in keeping certain gender roles in place.

It depends on the female as passive and morally pure victim and the male as a disposable utility and protector to women idea.

"What about teh menz lol" is "man up" in femineze.

"End violence against women", as if that minority of violence is more special than the rest of it is a great example of the conservatism thats at the heat of feminism - and womens violence, that against children and their partners which makes up most of the family violence is denied and brushed under the carpet - there are some very traditional ideas and assumptions behind that.

Embogenous · 2012-04-02T02:50:34+00:00

People in general. Being a feminist doesn't mean all that much. There will be feminists who don't understand why gender roles are a problem, some that don't understand the very concept, some that don't care and actively or subconsciously want men to stay in their box. Is the proportion of feminists who say it smaller than the proportion of non-feminists? I would expect so, but no group is immune from that line of thinking.
People ask this question a lot, or variations of it. Many people who are feminists can be allies, presumably yourself included. Feminism as an idealogy is most certainly not beneficial to the movement. Feminist organizations in general have certainly done anti-male things in the past (2008 stimulus, VAWA, duluth model, anti-shared parenting etc). I disagree with the hardline no-exceptions anti-feminism but I'm certainly not a fan of feminism.

rightsbot · 2012-04-02T02:38:20+00:00

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InfallibleBiship · 2012-04-02T18:47:28+00:00

Who is saying "Man Up?"

I think the most infamous recent writings are those by Kay Hymowitz and Bill Bennett.

PlainPlane1 · 2012-04-02T04:42:57+00:00

2) I think a large portion of the issue lies in the semantics of it all. "Feminists" covers different groups of thinkers that actually have very different thoughts and opinions. Without a doubt level headed, informed, and moral feminists would make a great ally to the MR movement, but the term "feminist" almost has a negative connotation to it because of these "self-identified feminists" that you mentioned.

"Man Up"

Comments

2 The concept of "White men saving brown women from brown men" is a concept that predates modern feminism by a healthy period of time, and the validity of the concept has had some of its fiercest critics from third wave feminists.

4 I'd love to hear more about these feminist groups. Which groups? I've never done (or heard) of any kind of activism along these lines by feminist groups.

Title	"Man Up"
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	6
Comments	81
Date	April 2, 2012 2:36 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/roxbk/man_up/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/man-up.1024834 https://theredarchive.com/post/1024834