Misogyny vs. Misandry

JamesRyder · 2012-09-26T22:28:49+00:00

I'd pose to you the question exactly how many of these "men" are actually in power, I'll take anybody with power as being part of the patriarchy oppressing women. I'll give you an example. In the UK there are 649 MPs, 505 of them are men. There are around 32.5 million males in this country so that means 0.016% of males with tangible power in the country.

But I'm going to be more liberal with my estimate, as to not be facetious. So lets take people earning over £100k. These include doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, high level managers and CEOs. So as a percentage of the whole population of 65million, I calculate 626000 of such people exist (SOURCE: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/income_tax/table2-5.pdf and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom). This means that 19.2% of the population are in a position of at least wealth, and probably some power. But the gender split I cannot easily find information for, so I do it by profession, lets take healthcare professionals such as doctors as an example (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8077083.stm)

There are about 80k out of 180k female doctors in the UK (http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/register/search_stats.asp). Not all of them will earn over 100k mind, but they are a common example of a type of individual that others would look up to, so you can say they have power. Sure 40% vs 60% still is in favour of men, but according to that article it will swing the other way by 2017.

So, what I'm saying is that if we take a random sample there is an 80% chance that you as a given individual are not in a position of power, and of the 20% of those with respected professions, about 40% of them are in fact women.

This is an aside from the argument that because of some shit that some people who died before I was born did that I am therefore complicit in it and deserve to be punished. In our schools we get taught about how bad the empire was and we should apologise for slavery, whilst my ancestors were living in crap and dying from cholera, losing fingers in factories or more specifically the case of my great great grandfather, being permanently disabled from silicosis (it's like asbestosis but caused by fine particles of sand used for casting bricks). Oh and my great grandfather was captured by the Germans in WW1 and was nearly worked to death on a farm in the east of Germany. HINT: He was fighting to protect our country and its men, WOMEN, and children. So were his friends, some of whom were annihilated by shells at the battle of Ypres and of which no trace remained. Most, in fact almost all casualties in war are male (http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2006/09/16/what-the-icrc-really-tells-us-about-war-casualties/).

So I fail to see evidence that the patriarchy (if it did ever exist), is actually relevant today. So what if 90% of CEOs are men? There's only around 900 of them in the UK! I am not one of those men, never will be, and likely anyone that ever visits this site will be.

Please remember that the average person, male or female, has been equally as worse off for at least the past 200 years. Only the people at the top, who make up a tiny fraction of the population, are the benefactors of the so called "patriarchy", and an increasingly larger proportion of them are women. Because I share the same gender as some of these people does NOT and will NEVER make me complicit in it.

unexpecteditem · 2012-09-26T22:04:01+00:00

This is circular. It assumes what it is trying to show.

electriophile · 2012-09-26T22:30:44+00:00

Misogyny is an attempt for men to hold onto their power, misandry is resistance. "

How is misogyny men's attempt to hold onto their power? Because I think you are missing why there is this hate from men being projected at women. And I doubt it has much to do with men trying to hold on to our uh power.

Cartesian_Duelist · 2012-09-26T22:21:59+00:00

"Unfortunately for MRAs, misandry is reactionary to patriarchy."

Prove it. This is what we call a 'just-so statement'.

Women who say men are useless dogs not worthy of anything but use as a bank account are 'reacting to patriarchy'? Even if so, that's justifiable?

Furthermore, 'women reacting to patriarchy' seems to imply there's currently a present patriarchy that is so overbearing that they are justified in their contempt of men, as they are the supposed 'agents of the patriarchy'. That women believe this is true--that men and masculinity are responsible for all gender ills (and many believe ALL societal ills)--does not make it so.

Your friend is approaching this from a deconstructivist stance, which is often weasel words for 'seeing the world through blood-tinted glasses' wherein everything that doesn't fit your presuppositions is not valid or factual, because it's devoid of substance (color) in your eyes.

Lastly, she's failed to prove misogyny is rooted in men's hatred of women for not submitting to them. I think you'll find that men WHO are misogynist quite literally just think women are inferior to men because they believe women are either socialized to be inferior and possess qualities they view with disdain, or believe they are biologically inferior, and often just want nothing to do with them. Whether you agree with this or not (most of course don't), to prescribe misogyny as being exclusively men being pissed that women are not 'submitting' to them is just dishonest.

electriophile · 2012-09-26T23:07:15+00:00

Wait, what? Where is this from? Do you seriously think MRAs say that misandry is me not bending to the whim and will of my husband?

No. It's not misandry if I don't submit to and serve my husband's every desire. It's misandry if I treat him like shit, hit him, abuse him, and assume he's a useless buffoon just because he's a man.

InfallibleBiship · 2012-09-26T21:43:16+00:00

Gee, thanks for the wisdom. Now go back to your friends who agree with everything you say.

Edit: You know what, I came back to apologize for being snarky. Gender Feminism is not something that is looked at too positively here... so while I'm sure you're making an interesting observation when looked at from the viewpoint of Gender Feminist theory, people here don't subscribe to that type of theory. This means that any discussion based on assumptions of that theory being true are useless.

2012-09-26T21:55:48+00:00

I do agree with you, a lot of misandry comes from feminism's constant misrepresentation of facts, history and other data and playing up the damsel in distress to teh evilz menz trope does cause a lot of misandry. Ideological hate might be a better description though.

JockeVXO · 2012-09-27T00:32:51+00:00

Lol, "Pay-tree-are-key". Would you be a darling and provide sources for your outlandish claims instead of just typing buzzwords that bear no meaning at all when talking to someone who doesn't believe in them?

Obey God's will or else God shall smite you!

EvilPundit · 2012-09-26T21:51:12+00:00

Here, educate yourself

http://www.amazon.com/Legalizing-Misandry-Systemic-Discrimination-Against/dp/0773528628/ref=pd_sim_b_4

http://www.amazon.com/Spreading-Misandry-Teaching-Contempt-Popular/dp/0773530991

EpicJ · 2012-09-26T22:20:32+00:00

To put it simply there has always been "Misogyny/Misandry" according to theories for every force telling women to stay at home and do "women's work" there has been a force telling men to go to work and do "men's work"

sibqm_lmvm · 2012-09-27T00:19:07+00:00

Come on, guys. Misandry is okay because men have it coming, but don't you dare try and hate women, because then you're the scum of the earth. /s

ErasmusMRA · 2012-09-27T00:29:49+00:00

That quote is quite dense. Let's examine it carefully.

If one was to decontextualize hatred, then misandry would be equally as unjustifiable as misogyny.

You're implying that the context misandry takes place in makes it acceptable. Ok, go on.

Unfortunately for MRAs, misandry is reactionary to patriarchy.

You're saying that misandry is a response to the patriarchy. Ok, go on.

Women reacting to men mistreating them because multiple generations of them have been taught women are inferior objects is not the same as men hating women for not submitting to them.

You're making multiple claims here. It will be helpful to break it down. You're asserting that:

Misogyny is men hating women for not submitting to them
For multiple generations women have been taught that they are inferior objects
Misandry is a reaction to this multi-generational mistreatment of women

Misogyny is an attempt for men to hold onto their power, misandry is resistance.

You're saying men are the aggressors against women and have been for generations, and women are fighting back with misandry.

Conclusion: Using unsubstantiated assertions you use an argument ad patriarchum to say "men bad women good". Nothing I haven't heard a thousand times before.

What a load of horseshit.

ghebert001 · 2012-09-27T00:31:32+00:00

Yes...how dare we not allow women to resist against patriarchy by severing penises and having talk show audiences roar with laughter. How silly of us to think that women should not be able to take joy in sticking it to their oppressors by killing them and getting off scott-free with "battered wife syndrome". If women can't figuratively rape men in divorce and family courts AND have the justice system on their side...well, that's just not a world I want to live in. I mean that's what us men deserve for not letting great grandma vote.

truthjusticeca · 2012-09-26T23:44:30+00:00

If hate begets hate, then when does it stop?

rightsbot · 2012-09-26T21:34:20+00:00

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filthyrat · 2012-09-26T21:58:05+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Misogyny vs. Misandry
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	0
Comments	36
Date	September 26, 2012 9:33 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/10j1a2/misogyny_vs_misandry/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/misogyny-vs-misandry.1012665 https://theredarchive.com/post/1012665

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