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Modern feminists in a nutshell

bigeyedbunny

June 12, 2016

253 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	Modern feminists in a nutshell
Author	bigeyedbunny
Upvotes	253
Comments	59
Date	June 12, 2016 7:27 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4nrtjf/modern_feminists_in_a_nutshell/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/modern-feminists-in-a-nutshell.947559 https://theredarchive.com/post/947559

Comments

[–]Alioninacoma 24 points25 points26 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]BigAl265 15 points16 points17 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alioninacoma 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Mythandros 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rikvidr 40 points41 points42 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cuteman 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]TheArabianKnightMC 10 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

These are the same people that want every rapist dead. Fucking hypocrites.

[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]hackableyou 19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Guardian_Soul 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Mythandros 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]elebrin 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]pockets_007 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Hillary_For_Prison 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Captaincastle 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]omegaphallic 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Unconfidence -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

[–]ziekktx 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Unconfidence 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]ziekktx 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Unconfidence -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]ImNotIntoPokemon 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Unconfidence 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminists try to simultaneously claim there's no central hub of feminist belief while also claiming that there's a particular way to be a feminist. Which is it?

One for some people, one for others. People think differently. Trying to hold an ideology of millions of people to some standard of homogeneity is silly. The idea that you're taking two differing viewpoints under the ideological tent and trying to say they can't coexist is I think hypocritical, coming from an MRA. I too am an MRA, and I know very well that my far-left ideology clashes with many other MRAs here. But I don't state that the MRM is somehow nonsensical due to these discrepancies in the beliefs of its members.

You might be the kindest most loving feminist on the planet, but the beliefs of the silent majority are completely irrelevant.

I don't believe we are that silent. I just think that if you take a speck of shit and put it into the center of nice white paper, it makes the paper shitty. It doesn't take but a handful of shitbags to make an entire movement seem bad. As an MRA and a pro-GGer myself, I'm all too familiar with that propensity of opposing groups to judge each other by their worst elements, ignoring the best. It's why you rarely hear anti-MRAs bring up Farrell, whose points are less vitriolic and more grounded, but instead hear them attack Elam, who is more of an easy target.

[–]disayle32 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]JebberJabber 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]disayle32 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]JebberJabber 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]disayle32 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]JebberJabber1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Unconfidence 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheThng 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Unconfidence 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ImNotIntoPokemon 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hacker-Jack 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Unconfidence 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I've been told the same thing by feminists, that the MRM is corrupted with hate and cannot divorce itself from anti-feminism. As a result, that the MRM is an anti-women movement which will eventually ignore intersectional interests in favor of men's issues. I've been told this many times, and had this evidenced just as much as I've had it evidenced that Feminism is a bad movement.

In short, MRAs and feminists accusing each others groups of being full of hate is like two pots arguing over which is a kettle. We're both full of hate, both have wide sections of hateful and bigoted people involved in our groups, and both are unwilling to tell these less savory elements to get out of our movement.

And we're not talking about an organization whose specific aim is the elimination of black folks and the establishment of a system of racial stratification, but a movement whose specific aim is to promote gender equality. We can argue until we're blue in the face about whether or not they take the right course of action, but if you think that a majority, or even a sizable minority of feminists, are only pursuing equality as a disguise for female superiority, then I think that's silly. It's arguable that many modern feminists have been deluded into thinking that what they do is not bigotry when it is, but to judge the ideology itself by the notions of the deluded is akin to judging Christianity by the mad ravings of end of the world prophets in Times Square.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Unconfidence 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Unconfidence 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

An atheist theist is not possible. But theist =/= Christian. The only true dichotomies are X and not-X, which is fulfilled in Theist/Atheist, but not Christian/Atheist. You cannot be a Christian and a non-Christian, but you can be a Christian and an atheist. I just explained how. If you want to discount that as a form of Christianity, then by all means. But who are you to do that, and is it not an example of the No True Scotsman fallacy at play?

As for feminism, how can you possibly claim that you know enough about my reasoning for supporting feminism to call it unintelligent and ill-informed? Because you do not know my reasoning, it would require you to have a certitude about every possible reasoning for every possible version and understanding of feminism. I think any human being claiming such certitude is invariably being overconfident.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Unconfidence 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And here's where the two arguments meet. Your view on atheist christians and the impossibility therein shows that you are willing to tell adherents of groups and ideologies of which you are not a part that you know their ideology better than they do, and that your own assessment of their ideological labels is more valid than their own. You are asserting that someone who believes themselves to be an X are in fact not X, due to you favoring your own idea of what X constitutes, and its core ideology, over their own. This is the very essence of the No True Scotsman fallacy. When I say I am feminist, you say it cannot possibly be smart not because you have addressed each notion of feminism, but because you hold your own idea of what feminism is above anyone else's, and thus find that anyone who supports something that is not in line with the version of feminism you both believe in and decry to be not a true feminist, under the umbrella of the No True Scotsman logic. In the same vein, when someone is a Christian in a way which doesn't match your idea of Christianity, you simply say that they are not real Christians, as opposed to accepting that someone may have a different concept of Christianity than believing in Jehovah and all the divine stuff.

The problem with this is that when you're criticizing another person, it's intellectually dishonest to apply to them the definitions of terms which you apply to yourself. If you say you are a good person, and by that mean that you don't actively do wrong, but I argue and say that you're not a good person because you don't actively do good, I am making a fallacious, straw man argument. I am obliged to use the terms of the person whose opinion I'm challenging, providing they aren't asinine, or I'm willingly engaging in fallacious argumentation which doesn't hit the point.

So, without knowing the idea of feminism I support, you cannot know if I am right or wrong for choosing it, supporting it, or even labeling it feminism.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Unconfidence1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]chmbrs6 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No true scotsman argument.

Moderates are always the weakest bunch. They hold onto values they'll never espouse, blindly supporting those who have some of the values they hold, because hey, some is better than none, but these leaders of social or political discourse are often batshit crazy and bad for everyone in the long run.

Moderates keep their mouth shut and let extremists do the talking, then they're surprised at the backlash of the group they claim as their own.

If you don't want crazies speaking for your group, you can't just claim they aren't part of the group, you have to work with the rest of the moderates within your group to isolate and deplatform the crazies, such as Anita Sarkeesian, etc.

If crazies can deplatform MRAs, then surely you moderates can do it with crazies, so that they don't taint your movement.

[–]Unconfidence 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chinggiskhan -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hacker-Jack 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]chinggiskhan 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hacker-Jack 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]chinggiskhan 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]chinggiskhan 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link