Progress Convincing The Other Side

reddut_gang · 2021-10-13T00:56:55+00:00

Yeah, but I get the feeling they weren't really "real feminists" anyway. They just wanted equality but were naive and fooled by feminism.

EmirikolWoker · 2021-10-13T05:20:32+00:00

If not, why is so much time spent arguing with their talking points?

Feminism is the mainstream dominant political ideology. It's talking points dominate media, academia and the law. Reform on these areas requires dismantling the talking points used to entrench the existing gender inequalities - how can we have reform to domestic violence services without doing something about the feminist Duluth model, or reform to rape law without tackling definitions influenfed by the work of feminist researcher Mary Koss?

I still believe there is a way the two movements can work together and actually get stuff accomplished

The foundational principles of all flavours of feminism (class warfare between men and women with men winning, shorthanded as "Patriarchy") are inherrently anti-male when you examine what needs to be true for it to accurately describe reality. Feminists can claim that it's "just about equality", but it's equality based on bigotted assumptions, presuming psychopathy on the part of men as a class.

Egalitarian values, and mens' rights advocacy in particular, is innately anti-feminist.

mgtowolf · 2021-10-13T02:14:04+00:00

The only time "feminists" ever seem to work with men, means accepting simps who wish to help their cause. It's not a two way street, and as soon as you start asking for consideration other than helping women with their issues, you are told to GTFO and start your own movement. Then they try to squash said movement, because you are now an other, therfor an enemy.

REDDITthehumanoid · 2021-10-13T01:43:39+00:00

While it is easy to fool someone, it is hard to convince them they have been fooled.

Dark_Knight2000 · 2021-10-13T04:22:05+00:00

The best way to get it to work is to speak to them in ways that will make them relate and to take their points seriously.

Something a lot of feminists do when talking about false accusations is that they dismiss them by saying it’s rare or that men are being delusional.

You can counter that by saying that it doesn’t matter how rare they are. If 60% of male managers are afraid of mentoring women something is going wrong and you can’t dismiss men’s fears like that in the same way you can’t dismiss a woman’s fear of walking home at night.

They do not know what it’s like to be a man, and have no right to tell a man he’s being a wuss for fearing it. Keep drawing parallels between mens and women’s issues and allow an empathy gap to be bridged. Then we can build reasonable solutions. Accusations should be taken extremely seriously, but that doesn’t mean due process can be ignored. If the accuser if found to be intentionally lying, then a heavy punishment should be metered out. That works best for everyone.

Clemicus · 2021-10-13T01:40:13+00:00

I still believe there is a way the two movements can work together and actually get stuff accomplished but not this way.

Potentially, yes, that's indeed possible. But it's also possible feminists and Conservatives could work together as there's overlap between the two more so than men's rights

Either way, wouldn't happen or work

actually get stuff accomplished but not this way.

Such as? If you mean a list of issues affecting men, you're missing out the ability to make change and the willingness to do so.

It seems obvious that they work on a very different philosophical framework than men's rights people usually do so ofcourse what they say is going to seem stupid or dangerous.

You're gonna have to expand on the above. Unless I'm mistaken, a "philosophical framework" is in relation to research not general beliefs or opinions

AndyBrown65 · 2021-10-13T01:33:56+00:00

I still believe there is a way the two movements can work together and actually get stuff accomplished but not this way.

Yeah, the problem with feminism is that true feminists do value men's issues, but female chauvinists don't.

Feminism is dominated by female chauvinists who are only concerned about improving the lives of women, and not men. These female chauvinists love to put men down and belittle them. If you listen to how men's rights activists talk, they don't actually put women down (apart from the female chauvinists) and the message with MRAs is essentially "yeah, we also need to talk about men's issue"

Additionally, see how MRAs respond to male chauvinists. They tell them to pull their head in.

I would also add that MRAs focus more on the family unit and partnership, whereas feminists focus on individuals.

Title	Progress Convincing The Other Side
Author	SpiritusExAaron
Upvotes	14
Comments	17
Date	October 12, 2021 11:28 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/q6yet4/progress_convincing_the_other_side/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/progress-convincing-the-other-side.1079861 https://theredarchive.com/post/1079861

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