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Student Wrongfully Expelled for Rape Triumphs in Court: Due Process Beats ‘Yes Means Yes’

Imnotmrabut

October 13, 2015
470 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://collegeinsurrection.com/2015/10/student-wrongfully-expelled-for-rape-wins-court-case/
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Post Information
Title Student Wrongfully Expelled for Rape Triumphs in Court: Due Process Beats ‘Yes Means Yes’
Author

Imnotmrabut

Upvotes 470
Comments 46
Date October 13, 2015 2:53 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3ojc8h/student_wrongfully_expelled_for_rape_triumphs_in/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/student-wrongfully-expelled-for-rape-triumphs-in.969537
https://theredarchive.com/post/969537
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Comments

[–]pnw_diver 38 points39 points40 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Go! Go Bill of Rights Go!

[–]gsettle 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

University ignores due process!?! Big surprise...NOT. Defendant must prove innocence and double jeopardy too!?! Judge should have required guilty parties to resign their positions and do 100 hours of study on the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[–]ICantReadThis 23 points24 points25 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Awesome. Can we get the "Dear Colleague Letter" revoked now?

[–]thalos3D 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is why Constitutional Rights matter. Some things are too important to allow politicians to experiment.

[–]Ser_Rodrick_Cassel 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I can't tell what's going on with that title.

[+]fullhalf -45 points-44 points-43 points 10 years ago* (22 children) | Copy Link

just read about the case. sounds me to like another chase of a slut being alpha widowed and trying to get even. here is a few snippets from vice, which took her side but one can read in between the line.

Morris felt ill all day. "It was not hangover illness, it was something completely different," she says. "My stomach was super nauseous, in knots. My whole body felt like it was in a fog. Like, my head was just in a really weird funk. It's so hard to describe." She also had physical injuries including a hickey on her neck and vaginal bleeding. "My entire body was just sore and in a funk." That night, her roommate convinced her to go to the pharmacy and get Plan B, the morning-after pill.

Morris didn't go to the police, a decision that is hardly uncommon.

so basically all the evidence of any of that was gone because she went to the police 3 weeks later

Morris skipped the class she shared with Mock that Monday, but ended up attending on Wednesday and Friday. "I'm an honors student," she says, "I'm not going to miss class." But then she adds, "I was freaking out the entire time, wondering if he was going to come in that door. I could not focus whatsoever." To help ease her worries and because she knew Mock was supposed to be away wrestling in the NCAA championships, Morris says she "actually texted him on that Friday and asked him where he was. I was like, 'Hey, how's Nationals going?' to see if he was still there or if he was on his way back or where was he because I was driving myself crazy."

so basically after they fucked, he didn't bother to text her at all. lol. what a surprise that she got mad. she even tried to cover up the fact that she couldnt stand it anymore and texted him first by saying she had to know where he was because she knew the text records would be part of the case.

so bitches are giving it up so easily and men don't value them because of it. then they feel like they lost out on the transaction when they didn't value sex enough to hold out to begin with. isn't that funny? radical feminist bullshit runs up against human nature and human nature won. these women probably feel like total sluts and feel used up after being fucked and thrown out. it's all their fault too for letting it happen. so much for female sexual liberation. it's like a child finally getting what they want then realizing that their parents were protecting them from it all along, then they throw a tantrum because they cant handle the consequences.

edit: SOMEONE ANYONE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! TELL ME WHAT I SAID THAT CAN BE CONSIDERED FALSE OR SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[–]nc863id 31 points32 points33 points 10 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

What toxic piece of shit subreddit did I stumble into to read schlock like yours?

I mean yes, she committed a goddamn crime for what she did and ought to be punished. But in your sick, deformed little mind, sex is some transactional thing between men and "bitches' who are "giving it up so easily" (lucky you!) because they "didn't value sex enough to hold out to begin with."

Is that why you haven't gotten laid? All the bitches holding out on you? It's okay though, because when they throw their vaginas at you (that's how sex works, right?), they'll "feel like total sluts and feel used up after being fucked and thrown out." That's what happens when they come up against a big alpha guy like you, right?

Pack it up and leave, you scumfuck. We care about men here, but that doesn't mean that we hate -- or even dislike -- women. There are places for people like you. This isn't one of them.

[–]itookurpoptart 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I like you. Keep being you.

[–]IcarusBurning 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Beautiful.

[+]riker89 10 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Welcome to /r/TheRedPill, the Coontown of misogyny.

[–]Azothlike 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't put that voodoo on us. His buzzword nonsense would get laughed out of TRP too.

[–]WillWorkForLTC 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

To be fair there are a good number of men on TRP that love and respect women. That sub is about understanding gender psychology. Unfortunately some people can't see beyond evolutionary mating tactics so they apply blanket statements/labels to everything and everyone.

[–]IcarusBurning 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How many is "some people?" Honestly there's objectionable content highly upvoted every single day.

[+]fullhalf -16 points-15 points-14 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

wow. your anger towards me is funny. why did what i say make you so angry? you sound like some kind of white knight. why do guys on this sub constantly cry about rape charges? i see articles about false rape charges on mensrights every day. then you get mad when i call one out.

the fact that you got so angry and tried to turn this into a character assassination is very telling about you. you're just a raging neckbeard. nothing of what i said points to whether i get laid or not. i didn't say i was alpha.

do you really not understand how sex between men and women work? you've never had a situation where a girl had sex with you on the first date then got mad after because you don't care about her? have you ever had sex at all?

[–]IcarusBurning 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"The fact that you got so angry and tried to turn this into a character assassination says a lot about you"

"You're a raging neckbeard"

lol do you have any self awareness at all?

[–]I_FUCK_UP_RECIPES 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Mensrights wants to change our legal system. It's aware that some women are evil, which earns it a misogyny label from the folks who are still buying the idea that women are more moral than men. But it has no interest in confronting those women or explaining them or finding a way to deal with them; it just wants to clip their ability to hurt men through laws, and otherwise deal as humans deal--cutting ties when someone reveals themselves to be toxic.

It's not raging against women as a whole. It doesn't buy into the "all women are like that" mantra.

If you think that is being a white knight, your views are not at all different from those of the general population who think that believing women are even capable of doing this is tantamount to misogyny.

[+]California1234567 -9 points-8 points-7 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

yes, she committed a goddamn crime for what she did and ought to be punished

How can you draw that conclusion? She was so drunk that she was literally sick, then Mock took her to a bedroom to fuck her. I realize that "incapacitation" is hard to judge, but he took her from the bathroom where she was just throwing up to a bedroom and fucked her. I don't know if it was rape or not, but I truly cannot see were she "committed a goddamn crime" that "ought to be punished." Otherwise, I completely agree with your assessment of the above idiot's comment.

[–]N3TS3cure 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's easy to see where she committed a crime:

She falsely accused someone of rape.

[–]California1234567 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, we don't know it's false. Just that there wasn't enough evidence to support his expulsion. That's different, isn't it?

[–]nc863id 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That was more me trying to build a little bridge before I burnt it than anything.

Because yeah, in reality it's very gray.

[–]California1234567 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Apparently, the redditors in this thread think that there is no gray area here at all. The woman is evil. The wrestler who banged her sick-drunk is a hero who has been wronged by her. Justice triumphs yet again for a poor man. Jeesh.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+]fullhalf -13 points-12 points-11 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

ok shitlord. what did i say that wasn't true.

[–]Win2Pay 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And troll confirmed. TRP beliver would never use shitlord offensivly.

[+]fullhalf -13 points-12 points-11 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

it's just a play on his name. also learn how to read before replying to me again.

[–]Win2Pay -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No.

[–]Oris_Mador 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You can't go around slinging TRP jargon and expect people to just nod and agree with you. You need to use normal terms and not vomit your feelings all over the place, no matter how angry you are.

[+]fullhalf -14 points-13 points-12 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

learn how to read and try again.

[+]kaltkalt -38 points-37 points-36 points 10 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Rape only works with a presumption of guilt. IAAL, and i've seen more abuse with rape cases than anything else except maybe DWI.

Any rape allegation can be negated with reasonable doubt by saying "yes we had sex but it was completely consensual." That's 100% reasonable every time. Even if the man is black and the woman is white. Tears are not evidence. Short of the guy raping the woman out in the streets in front of 10 video cameras, where she's clearly not consenting, there can be no legitimate rape conviction.

But you see with the Cosby crap, or anyone accused, everyone instantly believes it. The truth always lies in the middle, so it must be partly true. Maybe he raped her nicely. But nice rape is still rape, so throw him in prison (where he'll hopefully be raped!).

So ridiculous. I'd like to see a general amnesty for all rape convictions. There are maybe 1 or 2 per decade that are truly legitimate (i.e. convicted with proof beyond a reasonable doubt).

Rape exists, don't accuse me of saying it doesn't. It's just not possible to convict anyone of it. Not without a presumption of guilt, anyway. And that's what we have.

[–]nc863id 31 points32 points33 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

So, what do we do about all the rapes that don't occur "out in the streets in front of 10 video cameras"?

Because most criminals aren't considerate enough to show their crimes like that?

Rape exists, don't accuse me of saying it doesn't.

Right, it's just

1 or 2 per decade that are truly legitimate

What the ever-living fuck is wrong with you?

[–]riker8918 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think he means legitimate in that they can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. If I read that right he thinks there are more actual rapes than that, but they are convicted under a lower burden of proof since the evidence for rape is often indistinguishable from the evidence for consensual sex.

[–]99639 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So, what do we do about all the rapes that don't occur "out in the streets in front of 10 video cameras"?

I know you're frustrated, but just because we can't hope to prove someone guilty doesn't mean we just pick a random person and convict them without evidence. If you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt, NO ONE should go to jail.

[–]nc863id -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I'm not saying we should pick random people and convict them without evidence. Of course, as a crime, proof must meet the reasonable doubt standard.

But his standard of proof isn't "reasonable doubt," it's fucking Sharia law.

[–]99639 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not sure I follow the part about sharia, but then again you seem reasonable and I don't know if there is a lot of value to be had in two people dissecting a third person's argument.

[–]nc863id 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In Sharia law, three outsides witnesses are required to validate a case of rape, which makes it nearly impossible to prosecute.

But yeah, you're right.

[–]kaltkalt 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not saying 1-2 rapes per decade are legitimate I'm saying 1-2 convictions per decade are legitimate.

If we require proof beyond a reasonable doubt and a presumption of innocence. If we have a presumption of guilt in rape cases then sure, it's easy to get a conviction. And that's how it works. There's just no way to convict someone of rape if we stick to the rules. It's legally impossible. Reasonable doubt can always be shown in 100% of cases.

[–]IcarusBurning 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Who are you kidding? True victims could provide all sorts of evidence to prove that they were raped.

[–]Khorib 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I dont follow what you are implying. Explain?

[–]Durgals 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Semen/saliva/other DNA on their body, bruising around the genitals, in some cases, STD's.

[–]Khorib 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Besides bruising, that only proves you had sex. And even bruising, depending on where and the severity, can be explained as rough sex. And then injuries can be avoided entirely through coercion (threatening that you'll beat them or kill them if they dont comply with sex), then there is no sign of struggle at all.

Rape is actually really hard to prove legally aside from the most obvious cases.

[–]kaltkalt 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

No they can't. The best they could do in a perfect situation is DNA, and like I said, "yes I admit we had sex, it was consensual" completely rebuts the DNA evidence, providing completely reasonable doubt.

No rape conviction is possible. Unless there's a presumption of guilt. That's how it is. The victim makes the accusation and the defendant has to prove his innocence beyond a reasonable doubt. And saying it was consensual sex is not considered strong enough evidence to overcome a few minutes worth of tears and an identifying finger point. No matter how it sounds, think about it logically. Not emotionally.

[–]IcarusBurning -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

"I know a broke into his house with a knife, broke some things and stole others, but he and I had consensual sex!"

[–]kaltkalt 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Nobody would say that. The allegation of a knife would be easily denied. If the victim is all slashed up, ok fine. But that's not the norm. Especially if "date rape" is even a quarter as common as the rape-culture obsessed whackos claim (without any evidence except citing themselves).

A woman with no marks on her claims a guy with no criminal record raped her 5 weeks ago. No bruises. No (recovered) DNA evidence. Or she has his DNA on a blanket. He says yes we had sex, it was consensual and lovely.

How can anyone possibly prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that he raped her? It is logically, scientifically, and legally impossible.

That's unfortunate because I do want rapists to go to prison. But wrongly convicting someone of rape is a far worse injustice than rape. 35, 50, 80 yrs or even life in prison is worse than an hour of rape, and usually it's just a few minutes. And "rape play" and "rape fantasies" are some of the most popular groups for women on sites like fetlife.com so it can't be all bad. Yea yea I know, save it.

[–]IcarusBurning -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Are you being intentionally obtuse, or are you actually this stupid?

No rape conviction is possible.

Then why do you feel the need to invent specific scenarios, and then argue that they should be generalized. If no (fair) rape conviction is possible, then surely you can explain that for any scenario anyone can come up with.

Also, out of curiosity, why did you change my hypothetical rape victim to a woman?

But wrongly convicting someone of rape is a far worse injustice than rape.

There is no need to decide which one is better or worse. How do you feel when people claim that convicting innocent people is an acceptable price to pay for sometimes convicting guilty rapists? Both are terrible injustices, and both problems can be tackled effectively without negatively impacting the other. Phrasing it as you did just constructs a false dilemma.

...hour of rape, and usually it's just a few minutes. And "rape play" and "rape fantasies" are some of the most popular groups for women on sites like fetlife.com so it can't be all bad.

What is the matter with you?

[–]kaltkalt -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I made the victim a woman because whenever I suggest that a male can be raped by a woman, people giggle and snicker and laugh. Frankly I don't fully believe it, either. At least not with his penis. If she ass-rapes him with an object, sure. But you don't get an erection when some horrifying violation is happening to you. "But it's an involuntary reaction" - no. If she's attractive enough to make you hard, then it's not a violation and you have no right to complain about it. Unless, I suppose, she has a disease and spreads it to you.

There's no need to decide which one is worse, 1 minute or two of rape or decades of horrendous incarceration. But it's obvious. so I'm comfortable with making the claim of 'worse.' Also, rape is not an injustice unless it's an official punishment - like it is in Allah Land. That's the only place where a woman (never a man) is literally sentenced to be raped. That's injustice. Being a crime victim is never an "injustice" because it's not official policy. Justice is about punishing it. Unfortunately, that's impossible. In our system, anyway. Not without convicting a ton of innocent people.

The irony is the same people who obsess over rape are the same PC-tards (yesss... I invoked the word 'retard') who love muslims and defend islam with their "few bad apples" crap. So the one place in the world where there actually is "rape culture" - with muslims - is the one type of rape they don't want to address or even hear about. Because islam is beautiful and the religion of peace. Now cover your feminine face before it gets sulfuric acid thrown on it by a peace-loving muslim.

[–]IcarusBurning 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But you don't get an erection when some horrifying violation is happening to you. "But it's an involuntary reaction" - no. If she's attractive enough to make you hard, then it's not a violation and you have no right to complain about it.

I guess every time you've gotten an erection you've made a conscious choice? Or are you saying that finding someone attractive is the same thing as consenting to sex with them?

I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your diatribe.

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