While I acknowledge there are false rape accusations, are they really as endemic as r/MensRights claims?

2013-04-09T23:20:25+00:00

That recent english crown prosecution service report doesn't actually have any data in it if you look at it, so its likely political.

UK stats are 8 - 12% confirmed false (i think), with obviously no figures on the number of false accusations that were dropped, found unfounded and prosecuted.

From your Indo article

Mr Starmer said: "In recent years we have worked hard to dispel the damaging myths and stereotypes that are associated with these cases.

No agenda there!

I'd also like to point out that just because a rape hasn't been proved in court doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Equally just because a report isn't found to be false, doesn't mean its not false.

DavidByron · 2013-04-09T23:14:48+00:00

None of your sources are actually measuring false rape accusations at all. There is a lot of hate out there by feminists and a lot of false rape denial by that hate movement. As a result a lot of fictitious figures are floated around.

I'd also like to point out that just because a rape hasn't been proved in court doesn't mean it didn't happen

I find it highly suspicious that you're saying that as if a false accusation has to even get to court at all to be a false accusation.

I'm in no way stating that protecting men with regards to false rape claims should not be done

Really? Because that's the way you come across. You come across as a bigoted asshole who likes to tell victims they were never victimised. Maybe you should work on that.

2013-04-09T23:09:42+00:00

Answering politely:

Everyone who is interested in the topic of false rape accusations should visit "the community of the wrongly accused":

http://www.cotwa.info/

In related news:

it is a myth that there are many false rape accusations.

Fuck you.

ignatiusloyola · 2013-04-09T23:06:19+00:00

I think /r/mensrights is very sensitive to the issue because so many feminists dismiss false rape claims as either inconsequential or untrue, and express no empathy whatsoever for the falsely accused. Just acknowledging that, while the numbers may be small, false rape claims are a serious crime which should have serious consequences would go a long way.

jolly_mcfats · 2013-04-09T23:40:03+00:00

How endemic does /r/MensRights claim they are?

It's important to note that when men's rights activists mention false rape, we often do it to assert that they happen, and that it isn't ok to bypass due process and the presumption of innocence just because rape is a horrible crime. Oftentimes people have the torches and pitchforks out before an investigation is performed, and a MRA will say "how do we know he is guilty yet? Innocent until proven guilty.", which is then interpreted as victim blaming, or claiming that this accusation is false.

I don't know exactly how frequent they are. I know that there are a lot of people who feel passionately about the subject, and I suspect that there are a lot of agenda driven studies out there. If I had to choose a number to start with as being a somewhat neutral good start, I might go with the FBI's 8%. However this number precedes recent legal redefintions of rape. Maybe that would influence the numbers, maybe it wouldn't. Even feminists who blog on rape culture acknowledge that the water is too muddy to have any real chance of having an informed opinion on this subject today. (although if you read that article, read through the comments to see why her attempts to reduce 8% to 1% are... unsound).

The lack of an absolute number doesn't keep me awake at night because the real reason I want to know is: is it sufficient to justify the maintenance of due process? And I'm satisfied that the answer for that is: yes. False rape accusations would have to be nigh nonexistent for me to feel otherwise- because the power to convict on a word is a very dangerous power to grant any group.

Judge_Jackass · 2013-04-10T00:14:44+00:00

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/crimprof_blog/2004/12/2_false_rape_st.html

Posted by: Lona Manning | Dec 9, 2004 7:27:53 AM

As a former member of the "USAF CID", more accurately known as the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI), I can attest to that paper that disclosed that "one-third" of our rape accusations were false. And, yes, the bar was set pretty high in that "withdrawal" of the accusation was the standard. Of further interest though, was that AFOSI had designed a list of questions (developed by a psychologist) to be used in any rape investigation. The purpose of this investigative "tool" was to assist the investigator in determining if the accusation was true, as opposed to gathering evidence of the crime(which was done at the same time). I found this list very helpful in determining the veracity of an accusation (as did all agents), but unfortunately, its existence was brought to the attention of the media, and the subsequent backlash by feminist groups resulted in AFOSI doing away with it. (This was back in the 1980s, so I don't know what they are doing now.) Based on my personal experience I would say that the number of false accusations is much higher than 2% - more in the 20% to 30% range.

.

Posted by: Krusty Krab | Dec 9, 2004 12:25:14 PM

Warren Farrell, in his book The Myth of Male Power (1993, p.322), cites an Air Force study that investigated 556 charges of rape by servicewomen. In that investigation, 27% ADMITTED that their accusations had been false either before or after being confronted with lie detector tests. Farrell cites "False Allegations," Forensic Science Digest, V. 11, no. 4, Dec. 1985, p. 64, by Charles P. McDowell. Farrell says the Digest is a publication of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations in D.C. Farrell's book compiles a huge amount of information on feminist issues. On rape, he cites a lot of anecdotal and descriptive information, addition to the Air Force study. All together, quite an important book, and a great resource.

The problem is that radical feminists use hyperbole and emotional responses and abuse statistics. "2% fake rape, 99% real rape" They will cry and scream if anyone doesn't agree with their evidence blindly and suddenly go hysterical and then point the finger at anyone who dares to question them and simply call them rape apologists, rapists, and shout them down while hurling verbal abuse. It's childishness to an extreme degree and it's unprofessional when dealing with forensics, statistics, and laws. It's a catch 22 when you try to follow the rules, you get attacked for not succumbing to their rallying/mob mentality (for us/against us!) that is as rational and calm as a soccer riot protesting the injustice done to a woman (which sometimes has not yet been proven in a court of law.) You can't let emotion be the decider to lynch people, that's the whole point of the court system.

If it was my daughter who was the victim, I would be furious if she was raped, but I would not be able to forgive myself if I destroyed an innocent man's life if my daughter used a rape accusation as an escape for her own illegal behavior. There has to be a balance and right now, there is not.

An example of this is how news is reported in rape crimes.

Look at this post on a feminist blog, notice how they sensationalize the story and combine the separate legal charges into one to make it seem like the accuser was "blamed for her own rape."

Here is reporting from a different angle.

Notice the differences?

Also the problem is there are from this one event, multiple legal charges.

1) the charges of uniform military employees having sex with eachother (many civilians are ignorant of this rule, soldiers are not supposed to be having sex with other soldiers!)

2) the charge of underage drinking

3) the charge of unconsented sex (raping or false accusations of rape, both are severe crimes!) The accuser declined to testify, in essence if nobody is able to press charges, the defense wins by default. It looks very suspicious when a woman for no explainable reason backs out of a case designed to prosecute the people who raped her. You can't have a legal trial without testimony.

4) the charge of having sex in public. This is where the indecent conduct comes from and it raised the question if the defendant should be registered as a sex offender (by her lawyer, trying to make it sound like the is being victimized by the law, when the article states that she would not be registered as a sex offender for not being under their specific categories)

Under North Carolina law, Hernandez's attorneys said, state authorities could require anyone convicted of indecent acts to register as a sex offender. The Pope Air Force Base statement said Pentagon policies require sex offender notification only in cases involving sex with minors, or sex acts involving violence.

There's more issues involved but that is the reason why this story was so complicated. For a blogger to blindly choose sides and not understand the legal system, not look at the facts, and treat this as a chance to cheer "their team" is pure corruption.

baldrad · 2013-04-09T23:07:29+00:00

There are a few things in your post that I would like to point out.

And this is all tied together in the same theme ( that being Men having a disadvantage in court when it come to rape )

I'd also like to point out that just because a rape hasn't been proved in court doesn't mean it didn't happen.

This goes to the fact that Men often get laughed out the door when claiming they have been raped. With that, cases that have male as the rapist, they are often seen as guilty until proven innocent. Going in the precedent is that they are guilty. So more often than not even if it is a false claim, no one is going to say anything ( cause that makes them look like a bad person and gets them in trouble ) and they just get an easy trial.

Out of 5,651 prosecutions for rape, 35 were found to have made false claims.

That we know of. The hard thing with these statistics is they are only as honest as the people who fill out the forms. A person who lies about getting raped is going to continue to do so. And with such a gray line with it ( many cases are that both parties were drunk and became intimate, then one regretted it or wanted to not be caught by a significant other so they claim rape ).

themountaingoat · 2013-04-10T01:55:35+00:00

Your data is bad and you should feel bad.

The issue with false rape accusations is that we live in a false accusation culture.

Many people deny that women lie about rape.

Feminists are constantly trying to remove due process from those accused of rape.

Society generally has the belief that if a guy makes advances on a girl and she is uncomfortable he is in the wrong and deserves condemnation, regardless of whether he could have known his advances would make her uncomfortable.

Feminists are constantly broadening the definition of rape to include many normal sexual behaviours, so that women basically have a huge legal weapon with which to punish many of the men they have sex with.

Rape accusations are next to impossible to get accurate statistics. Usually around 10% of the reports to the police are found to be false, but we don't know how many of the reports are actually false. For me, false rape accusations are part of a more general problem with all of the burden of finding out what a woman wants being on the man, and little to none of it being on the woman. Men are not mind readers, and there needs to be an understanding that signals are often contradictory, and punishment or censure only if it is abundantly clear that the attention was unwelcome.

johnsmith66 · 2013-04-10T02:33:41+00:00

Your post is full of bogus statistics which have nothing to do with the actual false rape accusation rate.

According to the Wikipedia article, the false rape accusation rate is 2-47%.

it is a myth that there are many false rape accusations.

A false rape accusation rate of 2-47% is many. By the way, stop trolling /r/mensrights, and do some research before you post a question.

stopsayingfaggot · 2013-04-10T00:06:21+00:00

I've been getting into discussions about this issue here lately. I find that this is a good starting point for reviewing the relevant research, since it's written for laymen, fairly non-technical, and discusses many of the relevant challenges for both scientists and police investigators dealing with false rape claims. Long story short, about 2-8% of rapes/sexual assaults reported to the authorities can be shown to be false.

Out of 5,651 prosecutions for rape, 35 were found to have made false claims.

I wouldn't trust the 35 / 5,651 measurement that the CPS used. First of all, you're misstating their claim. There were 5,651 prosecutions for one crime and 35 for the other crime, it wasn't 35 out of 5,651. Second, an unknown number of those prosecutions for rape were also false reports / accusations. And third, other studies done in the UK (see my link above) peg the rate at around 3-11%, depending on how you slice the numbers. 0.62% is simply too low to be credible, and that's coming from me.

SCCROW · 2013-04-10T22:20:34+00:00

I would classify the "false rape accusation hysteria culture" as sex-negative.

Remember that the feminists would only focus on the negative aspects of sex. Eventually, they made a new brand, "sex-positive" feminists - which speaks volumes about what feminism really is.

It is fascinating how many MRA's also only focus on the negative aspects of sex...

rightsbot · 2013-04-09T22:58:17+00:00

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CrossHook · 2013-04-10T13:59:43+00:00

We all know someone or several people who have been falsely accused.

It's more common than actual rape.

truthjusticeca · 2013-04-10T00:55:56+00:00

…Rumney's smart debunkings leave us with a group of American, British, Canadian, and New Zealand studies that converge around a rate of 8 percent to 10 percent for false reports of rape. Not all of these studies are flawless, but together they're better than the rest of the lot. They include a massive 1997 report on sexual assault by the U.S. Department of Justice, which includes data from 16,000 local, county, and state law enforcement agencies. The DoJ found that "in 1995, 87% of recorded forcible rapes were completed crimes and the remainder were classified as attempts. Law enforcement agencies indicated that about 8% of forcible rapes reported to them were determined to be unfounded and were excluded from the count of crimes."

http://www.slate.com/id/2231012

Title	While I acknowledge there are false rape accusations, are they really as endemic as r/MensRights claims?
Author	prisongate
Upvotes	4
Comments	27
Date	April 9, 2013 10:57 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1c0uay/while-i-acknowledge-there-are-false-rape-/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/while-i-acknowledge-there-are-false-rape.1610167 https://theredarchive.com/post/1610167

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