Why cannot an egalitarian support women’s issues?

operative87 · 2022-12-21T09:02:01+00:00

No but you won’t convince a feminist to look at men’s issues.

Those people have a very one sided view and the truth is they do not want equality they are female supremacists.

Maxwell1138 · 2022-12-21T09:04:38+00:00

You need to come to terms with the fact that Feminism is a cult. It doesn't tolerate anything except itself. So when you deny feminism is like saying you deny God exists to a Christian. Its an insult to them and their entire belief system. If you aren't a Feminist you are evil, going to hell, guilty of sin, whatever comparison you need to understand their mentality.

Its not about recognizing issues or about equality or trying to help people. Its about female empowerment at all costs. Its a very hard to lesson that is not easy to absorb but once you understand that about Feminism everything starts making sense. Its not all Feminists, there are good Feminists that really believe in equality are not hostile and hateful and discriminatory. But its enough that you must always assume whatever Feminist you are speaking to is hostile, and is hateful, and will discriminate.

Don't let them try to dictate to you whats right, or what you are allowed to do. You can support what rights you believe in and what equality you find best no matter what they tell you. Its the myth of Feminism that they control the narrative on what is morally correct or socially equal. Thats the power they currently wield in the world, the concept they know what is right. They don't.

odysseytree · 2022-12-21T09:14:09+00:00

Feminism takes addressing men's issues as an attack against women. It's a one group, one mind and one thinking tribal mentality.

ReWildingOfMen · 2022-12-21T09:02:01+00:00

Nope, you were reasonable and fair in the points you made.

She didn't have a leg to stand on in response.

Good job.

Mr_SH_and_his_pet · 2022-12-21T09:07:15+00:00

I’ve found that arguing with feminists only feeds their ideology. Every time they win (which is always, because they always say they’ve won), their ideology only grows. Plus, they get a lot of enjoyment out of these arguments.

Angryasfk · 2022-12-21T11:08:33+00:00

Of course you did something wrong. You said men are disadvantaged in some areas and women are oppressed in some (ie not in all areas). This is heresy for feminists. It would be like telling a Muslim that Mohammad didn’t hear Gabriel and wasn’t a prophet. Or telling a vegan that animals only exist so we can eat them. Or telling a Nazi that Hitler was Jewish!

It’s that level of a rejection of their baseline belief that the entire ideology is based upon. If women are not systematically oppressed, which means that the “patriarchy theory” doesn’t hold.

I think that’s why you see prominent feminists denying that men have fewer legal rights than women in any area including conscription or reproductive rights; why they’re in denial about higher education and education in general favouring women and deny reality over divorce and custody.

It’s isn’t just that they’re female supremacists (although that’s clearly a big part of it). It’s that if they were to acknowledge any of this, they’d have to acknowledge that patriarchy theory does not apply to contemporary society. Which in turn means that feminism has no basis.

That is why feminists react so strongly to such statements no matter how reasonable they are.

2022-12-21T14:23:05+00:00

Egalitarianism, while better than feminism, will still lead to the collapse of society. The sad truth of life is that it is unfair and we are not created equally. Women are better at certain things and men are better at certain things....we only hurt ourselves by not acknowledging this.

For more info here is a really great video from 10 years ago of a woman describing the end of society due to egalitarianism and feminism. https://youtu.be/w__PJ8ymliw

Standard-Broccoli107 · 2022-12-21T09:25:59+00:00

I support many womens issues, my charity contributions goes primarily to womens issues. You can support both womens and mens rights.

But modern feminism is about fighting for power, it is a zero sum game. So to them any egalitarian is the enemy, because feminists dont want equality like an egalitarian, feminists want supremacy.

AspirationsOfFreedom · 2022-12-21T09:34:27+00:00

If feminists trully was for equal rights, ditching that label and join Egalitarianism would be a no brainer.

I'd argue even no label is better, heres why: The entire movement has gotten so toxic, with infighting at every turn because they adopt non female discrimination problems in. Like BLM. PRIDE. MeToo.

And unless you agree with EVERYTHING, you will get called out with internalized biggotry/sexism. Unconcious bias. U know, the good ol "yeah but you just arent able to comprehend the racism/sexism/biggotry, so u cannot disprove my statement :)) "

Im weary of this in the mens rights movement regarding topics such as abortion and/or financial abortin. But as long as its in regard to the gender problem, then im all for it.

Modern feminism is just a cult following, where the media is taken over and promoting the shit out of it. Causing unknown jane does (and some james does) to spew bullshit they know nothing about, with a certianty that they will cry over if challanged. Shoutout to an ex colleague who broke down into tears over me pointing out her flaws regarding the wage gap...

Everyone is so hung up on being offended, that they cant argue the point or deffend their own stances, and fall back in tactics such as "her truth" and "unconcious bias" and "you just cannot see it cuz you are a man and therefor cannot understand!"

The_Bearded_Cyclist · 2022-12-21T09:37:55+00:00

You didn't do anything wrong. Generally Feminists are brain washed into hating anything that doesn't automatically support female only problems and ideals. Men are evil, women are victims and nothing bad has ever happened to men that they didn't deserve.

Anything other than this is unacceptable in a feminists eyes.

nambivpn · 2022-12-21T15:15:16+00:00

Yes. This is what I was trying to say. A man who works in a mine with minimum wage is not an oppressor of a woman who works in a tech industry as a programmer. I wanted her to see how downtrodden people must be uplifted irrespective of whether they’re men or women.

Cooterhawk · 2022-12-21T09:49:06+00:00

No but you did waste energy. You probably confused her.

NutsLikeMelons · 2022-12-21T09:40:05+00:00

Oppressed - keep (someone) in subjection and hardship, especially by the unjust exercise of authority.

In what way are women oppressed? Answers based on western countries please. I can’t think of a single way modern women are oppressed.

The_Bearded_Cyclist · 2022-12-21T10:09:26+00:00

It amazes me how feminists seem to think they should have unwavering, unquestioned support from men when it comes to women's issues but they should never have to return the support when it comes to men's issues.

AndyBrown65 · 2022-12-21T12:54:34+00:00

Feminism is a female supremacy movement.

She also spoke about systematic oppression of women.

In modern western society.... please explain?

MicrosoftOSX · 2022-12-21T09:58:33+00:00

the only time they show awareness of men’s issues is when they need new recruits. During the recruitment, they say something like "oh you support mens right? that is what feminism is about, why not join us instead". This suppresses MRA growth by 2 people if compared to feminism.
they are evil. not only they are fighting for power, they are removing power from others, while pretending to be an ally.

SebTheMenace · 2022-12-21T09:59:41+00:00

I still wonder where in the west in 2022 women are systemically oppressed? I lived in the middle east so my view might be biaised but it seemed to me that women in the west has the exact same right as men minus some disadvantages

ElisaSKy · 2022-12-21T11:18:39+00:00

You have not said anything wrong.

The problem in a nutshell: There's all this misinformation and active suppression of contradictory information

A) on how men supposedly are violent towards their spouses and women supposedly aren't (when again, the actual stats on DV are much closer than what many people think),

B) how rapey men supposedly are (which, if you arbitrarily define having a dick as a prerequisite for calling forcing yourself on someone "rape", as most countries do, you'd expect 100% of rapists to be men, since a woman could force herself sexually on any number of people including children and not have "raped" anyone, and even using a loophole treating a dildo as a dick only accounts for a very small number of women)

And probably a lot of other lies still, I'm just mentioning the two big big guns here...

Point is, if this woman believes in that, she has this perception of men as monsters and brutes and abusers of women, and well, if you want to help men (which are abusers of women, remember?), well obviously you're enabling men to abuse women.

TL;DR: there's a lot of propaganda and suppression of contradictory evidence painting men as monsters and all around abusers of women, and sympathy to these (perceived) criminals is seen as enabling their (alleged, mad up out of thin air) crimes against women.

BlackberryDull402 · 2022-12-21T14:40:32+00:00

These people view the world as either black and white. Either you support every single one of their nonsensical ideas or you have a deep hatred for women. There is no middle ground for them.

Fuzzy_Department2799 · 2022-12-21T15:09:52+00:00

No you just didn't bow down to feminists ideology. For most feminists the programming from birth says men have life easier and they are victims. Its impossible to break the programming in a few conversations. So they just deny deflect and stop engaging with you since they cant get past the programming.

Far_Negotiation8764 · 2022-12-21T13:17:25+00:00

Even if you did say something wrong, you should not be coming to ask this subreddit, even though the people here are pretty rational you need to get an unbiased view, stop acting like a feminist.

pm_me_your_buttbulge · 2022-12-21T16:12:52+00:00

ut she kept on skirting this and told me that this is my belief and it would be a waste of time to argue with me.

There are two possibilities.

Either a.) she's tired of arguing the same thing over and over. For example, I'm tired of arguing about COVID and how bad it can be with morons who say "it's just as bad as the flu". At some point you just say "you're a fucking idiot" and walk away. b.) She could know she has nothing of substance to respond with and is angry because you aren't 100% in line with her.

Look at BLM. "White lives matter too!" isn't ... wrong. There are also plenty of white people who are disadvantages. Look at poor white people whereas a poor black person would net college scholarships purely because they are black but his white best friend got nothing because he's white. In this case, BLM would have been better saved saying "Black Lives Matter Also". But you'll find they react similarly to the woman you were talking to. If the white person grew up poor and without but their black best friend got lucky with scholarships and such, they are going to want to call that out but they'll be shot down as "racist".

This is because they see an answer in: Fix the poor person problem. We were BOTH poor.

In your example, men and women have issues. Women think they have it worse therefore ignore men and focus on women. The problem is many issues can be resolved at once and fairly.

Why don't they want that? Because privileges people rarely want to lose their privilege.

I think it's not fair women, because of their gender alone, get scholarships. But I told my kid to (ab)use that to get herself ahead. I don't like it but my opinion isn't going to change the reality of the world because of my likes or dislikes.

If I push for equality in that regard someone else who has a daughter will be upset that it may take away from them. They will lose their privilege while my daughter benefited from hers. They, of course, will be resistant.

Look at abortion. They had the privilege of having sole choice but shared responsibility. Now they don't have choice but only have shared responsibility. That's equality. They don't like that. They want their privilege back. Notice how they don't care to give men a choice in anything, such as child support.

There is no answer in which they don't lose their privilege. They realize they can't win. Ergo, name call and leave because equality was never the goal.

Modern feminism is not about equality. It's about women and things that benefit them.

Title	Why cannot an egalitarian support women’s issues?
Author	nambivpn
Upvotes	52
Comments	54
Date	December 21, 2022 8:56 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/zrf1fm/why_cannot_an_egalitarian_support_womens_issues/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-cannot-an-egalitarian-support-womens-issues.1208010 https://theredarchive.com/post/1208010

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