CMV : TRP advice is mostly common knowledge , they just take it to the extreme to attract attention

purple_lock · 2015-04-18T21:40:01+00:00

The main thing I've gotten out of TRP (and earlier on PUA) is do not put the pussy on a pedestal.

Say it however much you like, this idea is not common knowledge. The reality is that men are subtly (it's never clearly stated in open terms) encouraged to put women above themselves, especially within romantic relationships.

They're told over and over that you're the worst kind of scum if you disrespect women, but "disrespecting women" is such a vague idea. Appreciating their physical beauty is disrespecting women. Wanting sex is disrespecting women. Wanting more/better sex than they deign to give you is disrespecting women. Being dominant is disrespecting women. The list goes on.

So the average young man, who has absolutely no desire to "disrespect women," finds that his only path is to be a doormat. To roll over whenever she disagrees. Never to push if she's even slightly uncomfortable. Never to put his foot down and demand what he wants.

While at the same time, these men are also being told/shown that it's their job to always be there. Never be selfish when having sex with a woman, or else you're disrespectful douche, always make it all about her. Do whatever you can to make sure she's happy first and foremost. Happy wife happy life.

In short, always put her needs above your own.

So, no, I don't think it's all common knowledge. Getting in better physical and mental shape, dressing right, keeping good hygiene, etc, are all common knowledge. But the most important part, in my mind, is most definitely not.

AnnoyingSeaAnt · 2015-04-18T21:05:09+00:00

I could blather again about "Forgotten truths caused by a PC feel-good culture who hide away inconvienient truths in fear that people will become bad if they hear it " but you'll probably dismiss it as me being an evil bigoted conspiro, so I'll try another approach.

People attired by the redpill are nerd men.Nerd men are generally defined by:

-Poor social skills, so they won't catch obvious cues and they won't see how their friends get women. Instead they will just complain women want douches, not realizing the male qualities they have.

-Desire to do good at any cost, as they feel they are enlighted and should use their intelligence to make the world better (Definition of good varies)

Because of those two factors, Nerds WILL ignore what you call common sense about girls , among other things.

Because nerds love science and generally logical things, you'll need to present them a precise theory to how to get women. That's what PUA did. PUA is akin to a extremely precise tutorial on how to get women, with a lot of complexification. It's may look like deshumanizing for you,but nerds are prone to extreme self-doubt ,so they need it.

chickenparade · 2015-04-18T21:59:08+00:00

Ah, the typical "You're just supposed to like, know- you're just some socially awkward loser if you can't figure it out" argument.

I feel like you're underestimating the amount of ~~indoctrination~~ social conditioning that goes on in modern society. From the Disney movies, the "just be yourself" dating advice, and the vilification of male sexuality by modern feminism has lead many men astray.

Plenty of people have an easier starting point and inherently higher SMV than others. There are those blessed with being born with good looks in a well off family that's deeply integrated in the community (the "Chad Thundercocks") for which attracting the opposite sex happens more naturally and unconsciously than normal. On the other extreme end is the not so good looking, raised by single mother/beta father who is much less well off and integrated and has probably been marginalized in most aspects of their life, perhaps with women or have been the "whipped" party in an LTR(s).

Now to the former, this stuff comes naturally, and from this perspective breaking down this relatively taboo subject of sexual dynamics is rude, disparaging, and like the prompt of this question- common knowledge. However, to the latter, who has probably experienced a good deal of heartache and would like to figure out why they must be so mistreated by the opposite sex, Red Pill Theory explains this quite adequately (being passive, boring, out of shape, supplicating, etc isn't attractive, a woman either views you sexually or she doesn't).

Keep in mind however- Red Pill theory may be amoral, but a lot of Red Pillers themselves aren't in their judgements of the people. To a person who has only ever/mostly experienced rejection from the opposite sex will have a lot of angst involved. They will be mad at society for lying to them with the sugar-coated advice they've gotten in the past, the women who they have only treated nicely for not wanting them and leaving them high and dry while they go out with the "bad boy" who ends up treating them terribly and cheating on them regardless.

Basically, the anger phase is pretty powerful and difficult. It's the process of unplugging, and the politically correct way they've been taught simply doesn't work. I was luck enough to have a large social circle and good friends when I started to experience it and I got over it fairly quickly (this was before I ever went on Reddit) but some aren't so lucky.

[deleted] · 2015-04-18T21:06:28+00:00

I disagree. It may seem common knowledge to you and users who have become knowledgeable about this stuff because you're browsing and discussing on TRP, TBP, PPD, RPW but there are a ton of men and women who do not browse these subs and would really benefit from knowing about SMV and sexual strategies of both genders.

Also, there really hasn't been such a collective knowledge, guides, advice, etc organized in one place, the manosphere.

You're underestimating what growing up and being conditioned to think BP does to men and their success in the dating world. If they are unplugging and realize they were getting shat on, there's gonna be anger and hate spewed. If that attracts more attention from men who NEED TO UNPLUG, I'm cool with that.

Once they hang around TRP, they hopefully realize there is a fifth stage of enlightenment and the anger is replaced by amused mastery over this whole game.

RustMustBeAdded · 2015-04-18T21:13:43+00:00

I think this pretty much nails it. I view the absurdity and extremism as a hook, and an effective one at that. The type of guy that bought into romantic ideals to the point of not being able to see the plain truths of interpersonal interaction needs a slap in the face, a violent shaking of the shoulders; it's the only way to get someone to 'wake up', to snap them out of their special snowflake, feel-good way of thinking, so that they can get the rom-com daydreams out of the way, admit their shortcomings, and start making progress. Anyone who's ever tried to get a guy to stop pedestalizing a girl he orbits will know the frustratingly stubborn way they brush off cold hard truth in preference of an outlook that makes them feel better about themselves.

Naturally many (maybe even most) fail to realize that the demagoguery is basically the same thing as sensationalized news headlines- an eye-catcher designed to inspire closer investigation- and take it to heart like they did the nice guy bullshit, producing a different but equally shitty individual. In my opinion those were hopeless cases anyway, so it matters little. After all, what unique harm can overzealous misogynists really do in this day and age?

In the two years since I found it I'd say the sub has devolved further and further into extremism, but such is the way of any successful system of thought. Many have and more will continue, though, to look past the bullshit and in those cases /r/theredpill functions as an introduction to more sophisticated thought, a catalyst for a search for more rational sources that come closer to truth, and for that reason I still see value in the sub.

exit_sandman · 2015-04-18T22:29:55+00:00

I disagree - it isn't "mostly common knowledge".

the importance of attractive traits is commonly downplayed. Best example: looks. "Looks aren't everything/that important" - if I had a nickel for every time I heard that stupid statement, I'd be rich by now. Now while I didn't think looks were totally unimportant, because of that self-flattering denial from women I severely underestimated the actual value of looks. Well, technically looks aren't everything because women have a host of other demands, and even if you're good-looking you can totally screw up if you fail in other areas. BUT not being very good-looking will totally screw you over in the dating department if you don't bring a considerable amount of other perks to the table: while a rather average girl will still get hit on and still get dates if she doesn't actively try to alienate the guys, the same doesn't apply to men. Basically, looks are simultaneously less and more important for men than they are for women.
in some cases, it's even worse - the importance of attractive traits isn't just downplayed or denied, but outright rejected. Best example: Masculinity and assertive, sexual behavior would be such an example. I grew up hearing constantly how toxic masculinity is, how outdated classic ideals of manliness are, how repulsive machos are, that verbalizing sexual interest is bad and objectifying, that the most attractive and interesting men are basically women in a male body (no, not fruity metrosexuals, but guys who are sensitive, communicative, friendly, warm, emotional, empathetic, compliant, acommodating, in touch with their feelings, soft, passive, progressive; instead of stoic, brash, assertive, aggressive, emotionally unavailable, indifferent, and outcome-independent). So, NO, I definitely did not get the memo that being masculine is positive or desirable, or that women want "real men". To quote Norah Vincent in Self Made Man: "[...]I was most surprised to find nestled inside the confines of female heterosexuality a deep love and genuine attraction for real men. Not for women in men's bodies, as the prejudicial me had thought. Not even just for the metrosexual, though he has his audience, but for brawny, hairy, smelly, stalwart, manly men; bald men, men with bellies, men who can fix things and, yes, men who like sports and pound away in the bedroom. Men whom women loved for being men and all the qualities that testosterone and the patriarchy has given them, and whom I have come to appreciate for the very same qualities, however infuriating at times I still find them." This was the impression I got as well, and unlike Ms. Vincent I wasn't even exposed to an explicitly and exclusively feminist perspective - just by a progressive narrative that had been influenced by the feminist perspective and whenever gender questions were raised, it pushed the idea that "two balls=bad, no balls=good" and everything that followed.
and finally, since denying the stuff that works isn't enough - you also have to promote stuff that is worse than just "not working", but actually detrimental.

ECoast_Man · 2015-04-18T21:59:42+00:00

It's not.

The advice itself maybe, but is the why that makes it meaningful.

stats135 · 2015-04-19T02:42:57+00:00

Common knowledge will lead you to invest their money into stocks instead of leaving it in the bank. But common knowledge won't tell you which stock to invest in. It won't tell you in the year 2014 to invest in EA (one of the best S&P 500 stock for you to invest you money in 2014) instead of Staples (one of the worst). It won't tell you the inflation rate for 2014 is 1.6%. For that you will need to read more on the current trends in stock and articles that keep a close eye on the economy.

Likewise common knowledge will lead you to the conclusion that self improvement and interacting more with woman will get you laid more, but common knowledge won't tell you what self-improvements/interactions have the best Return on Investment. TRP will. TRP can tell you that if you want to get laid and you have 5 hours a week to spare, its better invested at the gym than doing woman nice favors, because a fit muscular man will get laid more than a nice guy. TRP can tell you that if you have an extra $100 budgeted its probably better to spend it on clothing than buying a woman dinner, because dressing nice will get you laid more than paying for a nice dinner date.

kick6 · 2015-04-20T18:06:45+00:00

Everyone more or less knows that most women are attracted to men who are physically fit and masculine

First off no: no, not everyone knows.

Secondly: Under the current social narrative of equality, all the "big is beautiful" shit is thought to apply to men too.

Thirdly: "masculine" is a pretty foggy term, and is where the real problem lies: masculine has been redefined from what can be called "classical masculinity" into what is now "fem-centric masculinity. The latter defined as taking the buffet approach to the former, and choosing only those things that directly benefit women, and shaming all the rest. This is inherintly unattractive, and this is the archetype that your "everyone" is attempting to live up to.

On a side note: your screenname would suggest that you have no skin in this game. So why are you even here?

HappilySingleWoman · 2015-04-19T00:12:41+00:00

never on anything good.

When it comes to how women treat men they "love" what exactly is the good that outweighs their hypergamous nature? There is no net gain for men offered by female "love" to them.

constantly put women down so that they can make men feel better about themselves

Not at all. TRP offers just as much criticism (if not more) to men then it does to women. You are just sensitive to criticism against female behavior (just like almost everyone is nowadays) because hardly anyone ever does it.

beer77 · 2015-04-19T02:22:25+00:00

These are my thoughts, what do you think ?

I think that you've never been a lame/awkward/unconfident/socially retarded male, and that you lack empathy for the problems of those men (for instance that snide "lol" of yours speaks volumes).

adrixshadow · 2015-04-19T07:19:21+00:00

However there are some extremist elements in TRP.

The extremism part is the questioning of why this things happen.

The realization is the horror that makes it extreme.

MindTheFuture · 2015-04-20T11:01:53+00:00

Nah, I truly believed at one point that, while there are women who are attracted by traditionally masculine virtues, there is significant portion of modern women who get off on men who are quite much like women. You know, best possible case: a girlfriend in a guys body - everyone gets along well, understanding and equality and such, lets just have good times together.

And you know, there are some. But the portion of women who like their men soft and feminine (just not boring), is way way less than I expected. And those who actually quite dislike feminine men - their existence came as surprise.

Back then I just never really took any effort on taking on developing myself or being masculine - seemed like a fools game, and mainly, something that is right for someone else, who aims to attract a totally different target audience. And I would be happy when I find a woman who likes me just as I am. And luckily, I was something, a flamboyant artsy tranny into odd, occult and clubbing - while also being a shy and kind anime geek. Combination dangerous enough to get a nerdy girl to chase me, and here we are still a over decade after. But back then I had hard time attracting the women I wanted, and never understood why relationships worked the way they did. The "common sense" offered by TRP wasn't really common, only after reading it recently, I've formed understanding on what appeals to women and why. When it worked, I assumed the reasons were different, for example: it really wasn't the fact that I was out in drag looking hot, but the fact that I did it confidently, while having great time with friends.

Will_Im_Not · 2015-04-18T20:21:12+00:00

Yeah, I think even a lot of TRPers admit that it's just a useful collection of common sense knowledge. Overall, the only unique parts about it is the misogynistic stuff (which might not even be novel but I don't hang around a lot of misogynistic places so I wouldn't know).

Title	CMV : TRP advice is mostly common knowledge , they just take it to the extreme to attract attention
Author	HappilySingleWoman
Upvotes	4
Comments	49
Date	April 18, 2015 8:11 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3325js/cmv_trp_advice_is_mostly_common_knowledge_they/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-trp-advice-is-mostly-common-knowledge-they.282590 https://theredarchive.com/post/282590

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