How is "Manipulating" any different from "Convincing"?

apierson2011 · 2015-08-18T03:30:09+00:00

By definition:

Manipulation acquires consent through deception. Convincing acquires consent through conversation, debate, and agreement, especially on honest terms (when comparing "convince" to "manipulate"). Manipulation of other people generally implies that you are deceiving them for your own personal gain at their expense, or without regard to how it will affect them. Convincing implies that you, well, convince someone that what you believe is right or correct, with regard for how the end actions or beliefs will affect them. Convincing requires a degree of conscience, while manipulation does not.

For example, I would try to convince my co-worker to take my shift at work because I have a legitimate reason for not being able to work that day - vs. - I would try to manipulate my co-worker into taking my shift that day by saying I have a family emergency, instead of saying that I'm hungover and don't want to get out of bed.

Another example: I would try to convince my boyfriend to go down on me because it would help me to be as fulfilled sexually as he would want to be - vs. - I would manipulate my boyfriend into going down on me by promising I would return the favor, then go to sleep and not follow up after I get what I want.

Manipulation is dishonest and selfish. Convincing is more difficult, but it is honest and implies concern for another person.

AlprazolamTablets · 2015-08-18T01:27:27+00:00

One sounds bad and is easier to demonise.

Eulabeia · 2015-08-18T07:31:06+00:00

Simply put, manipulation the word used when you get someone to do something that you want them to, instead of what they would most likely decide to do if they had all the same information as you.

Now, one of the main reasons that a lot of people consider almost all of TRP to be manipulation is because they feel like they would not sleep anyone who went to a forum like that to learn how to get laid. You don't tell them that of course, and try to present yourself as naturally charming, so there's one element of deception. How dare you try to get laid without broadcasting to every woman you know that you had to learn what women like, instead of just automatically knowing or figuring it out for yourself. And gasp, even discuss these things with others that sometimes say mean things about women in general! You terrible person! Also of course TRP teaches men to put their own overall interests before that of women's, by explaining how to punish bad behavior, and advising men to stay away from women who won't give them what they want. So combine those things and that's why they say it's manipulation. And it is.

Because manipulation is about getting what you want out of an exchange with someone, instead of exactly what they want. So they get mad, because like the hopeless idealists they are, they expect everyone to attempt to come to an agreement with each other after both parties fully and honestly discuss what they want out of the relationship, and what they're willing to put in.

Except, how often are they trying to instruct women to behave that way as well? How can they ensure to us all that we will always get that kind of treatment from all the women we meet? They can't, of course. So really they're not actually as naive as they try present themselves as, they're just mad that you're playing their own games. That's how they're trying to turn things around on YOU, by attempting to guilt you into thinking that if you're not always leaving yourself vulnerable, and showing all your cards, you're a terrible person. That's so they can get what they want without caring about what you want. That's how they are actually trying to manipulate you. So just keep that in mind the next time they bring that up as a way to criticize you.

masterrod · 2015-08-18T02:29:29+00:00

Manipulating is putting someone in a place where the manipulator is making all the choices.

Convincing someone is them making the choice because of what you say, or do.

But a PUA/TRP should be leading. The lady makes a choice to get on your ride, and she willfully doesn't want to get off.

wombatinaburrow · 2015-08-18T04:51:53+00:00

Is reminding the same as nagging? It seems to only be nagging when a woman does it.

trp132 · 2015-08-18T05:58:33+00:00

Manipulating involves deception and it's also about intent.

The difference is subtle, but compare you trying to convince your brother to buy one kind of car over another. The reason you might do this is because you legitimately believe the first car is better (safer/faster/more fuel efficient/cooler) for the price. However, at the end of the day, you don't REALLY care whether or not he picks the car: You just want to convince him to make the choice that is in his self interest because you care about him and want him to have a cool car.

Compare it to the same thing, but now imagine you're a car salesman. You list exactly all the same features for the same reasons, but you are ACTUALLY doing it not because you want him to have a good car, but because you want to get a better commission.

Now, what is actually said and done is the same exact words (the benefits of the car) for the same reasons (to try to convince your brother to buy the car). However, one involves manipulation and the intentional suggestions of the subversion of the best interests of your target in favor of your own.

Women love men who know they can show them a good time and honestly offers it to them because he knows he can provide it and wants whats best for them. Women run like hell from a man who wants to say whatever he can to get in their pants. That's the difference.

cats_or_get_out · 2015-08-18T01:16:52+00:00

Here's an example from The Office:

http://youtu.be/wMbCLB2vLkU

In this clip, the female manipulates the male with the ol' "I'm pregnant" (and she's not)--Classic Kelly.

truthuncensored · 2015-08-18T01:37:46+00:00

Manipulation implies that the person being manipulated isn't 'in' on it.

Women know very well how to manipulate guys. They become aware at an early age of how they can use their feminine ways to get what they want from supplicating guys.

TRP is a response to this.

JP_Whoregan · 2015-08-18T01:37:43+00:00

I sell health insurance policies for a living for Blue Cross & Blue Shield. That means I literally manipulate people into making life-altering decisions for a living. Sometimes, the people I consult are delicate flowers known as "women". I actively consult them on which network, plan, and doctors they should adopt. I guess that makes me an evil misogynist.

alreadyredschool · 2015-08-18T11:27:54+00:00

Everything is manipulation.

Generally people dislike negative manipulation, that's why manipulation has a bad name, when people say "Manipulation" they mean "negative manipulation.

But is it negative manipulation when:

You get no disadvantages and I get advantages?
We both get advantages?
I get more advantages than you?

2012Aceman · 2015-08-18T12:06:58+00:00

Convince sounds better. When someone asks if you're manipulating them just say convincing instead. They're basically the same. I would say that manipulation involves emotions whereas convincing involves logic. However, emotion can overwhelm logic, and logic can supersede emotion, so I guess we should evaluate the end result of both of them: getting somebody to do something you want. Both are forms of communication where the end result, if successful, leads to a benefit for the one doing the manipulating/convincing. So yea, essentially the same, but one has a more negative connotation.

Title	How is "Manipulating" any different from "Convincing"?
Author	TRPThrowRug
Upvotes	4
Comments	48
Date	August 18, 2015 1:03 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3hdyib/how_is_manipulating_any_different_from_convincing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-is-manipulating-any-different-from-convincing.280252 https://theredarchive.com/post/280252

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