Not a virgin

teaandtalk · 2018-01-04T06:28:34+00:00

Yes, those are red flags. It's pretty unlikely that she slept in the same bed as a non-christian boyfriend and didn't do anything else.

Whitified · 2018-01-05T08:24:41+00:00

She had also travelled overseas with this man and slept with him in the same bed (claims not to have done anything, like sleeping with a sibling)

hahhahahahahhahahahahhahahhhHAHHAHAHAHAHHHAHhahhha

dontbedenied · 2018-01-04T22:18:11+00:00

I think you're making too big a deal out of virginity. It's one thing if it's a girl who hooks up with any guy resembling Chad who buys her a drink. It's another thing for a girl who has been in a couple relationships, or even had a couple flings.

I certainly wouldn't want to be dismissed because I'm not a virgin. It's part of growing up. But that doesn't excuse all red flags.

Speaking of red flags, RUN, don't walk away from this girl. I just got out of a relationship with a decidedly non-Christian girl who was with a married man for a year prior to me. Believe me, women who would do something like that have serious issues.

I could go on and on about what a horrible idea it is to take a girl like this seriously. It goes without saying that you don't want an LTR with a girl like this, and if I were you I would steer clear of her entirely. You don't want someone like that in your life.

And come on...she traveled and slept in hotel beds with this guy and they didn't do anything? If you're smart enough to check out TRP, you're smart enough to know that story is BS.

If there is one thing I have learned from TRP and my last relationship, it's that naivety is NOT a virtue. It's a weakness, and the sooner you address it, the better.

A girl who will tell an absurd lie like that, and see that you believe it, will take advantage of you like you have never seen.

Red-Curious · 2018-01-04T18:17:08+00:00

*Virginity: That's up to you. God accepts those who were whores for other "gods" before coming to faith, and he still incorporates them as His bride. Personally, I took your path and found someone who was a virgin because that was important to me personally. My point is that there's no biblical compulsion that you must marry a virgin (rather, Paul assumes non-virgins can marry too), but it's certainly a standard that was honored among God's people for millenia. As you say, the character implications are most important to me when making that assessment, not even just the virginity itself. God can purify her, but to be sanctified ... there has to be mutuality in that and my trust over whether or not wants to pursue sanctification is lower for a woman who has a longer history of sleeping around as compared with someone who has only been with 1 or 2 people as compared with a virgin.

Red Flags: Yeah, these are serious concerns. She probably doesn't meet your standard of character. To pursue a relationship with her would be to lower your standard. Are you okay with that? I mean, really, that's what you're asking us: "Hey guys, should I lower my standards? Are they too high?" Your standards are yours. Personally, I don't compromise much. But when I was dating, I also didn't have to compromise. I was the prize. It wasn't until after I married that I lost my alpha and had to rediscover it over the last year +.

Where to Find: Look up OZ's guide for singles on the sidebar. /u/OsmiumZulu really hit it out of the park with that one.

Now, more generally, what you're dealing with is the "Pick 2 of 3" principle. The three things are: (1) Attractive, (2) Single, (3) committed to Christ. The likelihood of finding someone who meets all three is astronomically low. I think ruizbujc did a statistical analysis on it and found that if you attended 9 churches simultaneously, each being the median church size in the country, that's what it would take to find 1 person who was the right gender, spiritually mature, single, and of an acceptable age. If you remove the "spiritually mature" part and just go with "genuine Christian," this changes to only needing to attend 3 median-sized churches simultaneously to have 1 girl in that whole crowd. Then, of course, you have to find a way among all those people to actually meet this girl.

At this point you have two options: (1) pray and hope God exercise divine authority to bring you together, which does happen on rare circumstances, or (2) compromise on some point. Here's how this plays out:

Attractive: If you want to compromise here, go for it. This is your easiest way to finding someone who meets all of the rest of your criteria. But be cautious about what type of "unattractive" you look for because that has implications elsewhere. For example, a seriously obese girl likely struggles with gluttony and self-control, implying that she's probably not as spiritually mature as she thinks she is. So, while she might be a virgin - is that because she is self-controlled with her sexuality to be able to follow God, or is it because her lack of self-control has put her in a place where she's never been tempted toward premarital sex in the first place? Looks aren't everything, but they certainly do matter and tell a lot more than just surface-level information.
Single: This is the easiest one to compromise, if the options are there, but it's also a bit of a catch-22. If she's already married, obviously stay away. Don't break up her marriage. She wouldn't be a virgin at that point anyway, so it would violate one of your given standards. But if she's attractive and spiritually mature and only dating a guy, I say you put yourself in the mix and see what happens. I wouldn't try to get her broken up, but if you're a high value man and she's dating a spiritually immature sleaze ball, for example, then you're probably doing her a favor. But if she's with a guy who's a quality man and she happens to notice your presence and availability and decides she likes you better, let her make that judgment call - don't take that choice away from her merely out of respect for the other guy ... UNLESS the other guy is someone you're spiritually investing in. I have a long story on that, but I'll spare you the details. Suffice it to say, your investment in someone you're discipling is a higher priority than a potential relationship that may or may not turn into marriage.
Spiritual Maturity: This is the one where you're most likely going to have to cave. The question is simply how much. If she's so spiritually immature that she's sleeping around with other men, I wouldn't touch that. Chances are she's not even saved if she has no discretion in following Christ. Those who are transformed live as one who is transformed and repent quickly when they fail, not returning to their vomit constantly. But do remember that Christ pursued us while we were still sinners. He didn't wait for someone else to meet his standard first. He became a standard and used his perfection to deem us perfect and to sanctify us into becoming perfect. The 105 post goes way more into detail on this.

In short, my solution is that if you can't find a spiritually mature woman with the convictions you're looking for, raise her up. Don't date non-Christians. But if you see a non-Christian who has what you're looking for, while avoiding giving any IOIs, share the Gospel with her. If she responds and comes to faith, then begin discipling her and let the relationship blossom. Whereas secular RP will say "create your slut," I say "disciple your bride." It's the same concept, but addresses the whole of what you, as a man, should be doing for your bride-to-be anyway, per Ephesians 5.

RedPillWonder · 2018-01-04T23:36:19+00:00

The girl you're talking to that was with a guy when she knew he was in a relationship is enough to disqualify her right there. Next her.
On the importance of virginity: It's important. It plays a role in the happiness and success of a marriage.

Before I get further into that, let me say that you can find non-virgin women that will make good wives. There's plenty of examples of that in life.

There's also plenty of examples on the opposite side, with studies to bolster the importance of marrying a low N count or virgin woman.

The CDC (Center for Disease Control) did a study (and repeated it a few times) showing a strong correlation between high sexual partner count and divorce. Virgin women were far less likely to divorce. A high number of sexual partners showed an extremely high likelihood of divorce. For example, at 16 or more sexual partners, it was around 83% likelihood, if I recall correctly.

The University of Virginia repeated this study (and thought they would disprove the CDC's findings) but found out the CDC was right, as their study showed similar stats.

Now, you're going to hear, "correlation doesn't equal causation!" when you cite these studies.

But it doesn't matter what the cause was, maybe it was medication and they made poor decisions in sleeping around, maybe it was childhood abuse, maybe it was emotional abuse or who knows what.

What matters is that every time a common denominator shows up (in this case a high N count), you also see a higher likelihood of divorce.

Again, keep in mind that you can find and marry a good woman who isn't a virgin, but also know what you're getting into (no pun intended).

You can find them anywhere. I'm not saying they're in abundance, but keep your eyes out. At the grocery store, the bookstore, the movies, at a restaurant, at the park, anywhere.

Strike up a conversation, get her number. Get to know her and find out if she knows the Lord and wants to grow in grace, if she works out consistently but maybe isn't where she (or you) would like her to be at that moment.

Find out everything you can and see if there's any deal breakers for you or if you can live with the minor flaws she has.

You'll find her.

And yes, your last sentence is the most important. God guide your search!

Here's a link to OZ's guide for singles that /u/Red-Curious mentioned. Read both parts.

BluepillProfessor · 2018-01-06T03:53:27+00:00

i) the importance of virginity-

very but demanding it makes you look insecure and pathetic. It is lose/lose because unless you are Chad football team captain it is VERY unlikely you will find a virgin.

ii) the red flags with the girl that I'm talking to

You know already. Stop wasting our time.

iii) where/how to find quality christian women

Church? No, seriously, in an Orthodox or other close nit religious community you can talk to some parents of young virgins and arrange something. That is the best option for your criteria.

DarthCallidous · 2018-01-04T07:24:23+00:00

This is one of the reasons I've gone MGTOW. It's just not worth the squeeze.

Red-Curious · 2018-01-05T00:42:24+00:00

I d x

DimHorseradish · 2018-01-05T05:52:13+00:00

Thanks to all who have written in, teaandtalk, red-curious, redpillwonder, dontbedenied, darthcallidous.

Regarding the girl that I've been chatting with, I won't be going ahead with her because my gut instinct has been telling me otherwise and I just needed confirmation on this. When I asked why wouldn't the man want sex, she told me that his other gf was able to satisfy him. I was a bit confused because when I asked her what she wanted to do with her life, she said she wanted to go into full time ministry, which for a moment gave me pause to think that she might be telling the truth. But then again Christian women can be quite hamstery and deceptive.

I have read Osmiumzulu's post about getting out there in joining special interest groups etc to find the right girls and mainly I've just been using dating apps like Coffee Meets Bagel which generally has a better quality of women who are looking for relationships, and it also sifts them out by religion, which is somewhat helpful and I think I prefer this as it seems to be the most efficient manner to go about looking for Christian girls.

I think my take on OsmiumZulu's other suggestions on how to meet women is that it is quite time and energy consuming. A lot of time you would have no idea whether that person is i) a Christian or ii) attached. You would have to invest a certain amount of time and energy in chatting and meeting up etc before you get around to asking about religion, sexual history etc. I tend to want to get that out of the way first because these are important non-negotiables for me before we can go about into a relationship to see if we can work through the minor flaws in each other.

With regards to dating younger, there are also certain issues because they tend to be more focused on having fun and less likely to want to settle down. There's also a bit of social stigma involved with a man dating a much younger woman, which is that he isn't good or confident enough to date women in his age group who would be in a similar phase of career or life. Whether this is accurate or not is another matter.

With regards to spiritual maturity, I wonder how far we can push the envelope because I don't think you can ever "make" someone a better Christian. We may be able to provide the correct stimulus (bible reading, praying together etc) but whether the person grows is up to that person and God (I am reminded of the verse where Paul said that he planted the seed, Apollo watered, but God made it grow). So to that end, there is some unpredictability and I'm afraid that the girl ends up being a superficial Christian who is just putting on appearances just to be spiritually mature. So I think we really need to be discerning to be able to detect genuine spiritual interest in God.

I would also like to have an intelligent spouse so that we can talk and discuss about things and have that intellectual stimulation. I' m thinking ahead here, but I would also like to have intelligent children and it appears that quite a large percentage of intelligence is inheritable, so it's something I would like. Again, would like to pick on the collective intelligence of the people here (who all seem really bright and thoughtful) on whether the desire to want to have intelligent children and therefore looking out for an intelligent woman is correct?

In summary, would to have to have your comments on my views about i) dating apps being a more efficient way of meeting Christian girls (since girls who want to date would be on the app and it sifts out non-Christian girls) ii) potential difficulties of dating younger women (social stigma, younger girls just want to have fun and less minded on settling because the wall seems so far away) iii) wanting an intelligent woman for intellectual stimulation and intelligent children.

Rivkariver · 2018-01-06T19:51:09+00:00

It really matters whether or not a woman was Christian at the time of sexual actions. Some women were reverts or converts and spent time brainwashed by the culture. Be careful not to get prideful about this. Having the grace to be born Christian and stay that way your whole life is not something you did, God did that.

I've seen men and women get really prideful about this and it's sad. I also talked to Christian men who had decided no Christian woman was good and pure enough for them. One even said unless she's already a perfect Saint I'm not interested. His list of grievances included the tv they watched. He kept complaining about being single and didn't get why.

A woman who was not in the church and had sex but later came to Christ and repented is a very different thing than a woman who believes but sleeps around because why not.

Also, did she have sex with a long term boyfriend or several random guys?

Still remember a repentant person means more in heaven than 100 righteous.

That said you have no obligation to date a non-virgin and the example you shared does have red flags, although I'm more concerned about her staying with this guy who was not single.

Edit: another factor to consider is why would a woman do this in the past. Was she never educated about Christ? Was she abused? What was it about? If she was given God but just did it to be selfish that's a different motive.

I say all this not to guilt you into dating anyone, but to let you know if you end up falling for a woman who had sex it's not necessarily doomed.

Title	Not a virgin
Author	DimHorseradish
Upvotes	5
Comments	52
Date	January 4, 2018 6:20 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/7o14ka/not_a_virgin/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/not-a-virgin.302085 https://theredarchive.com/post/302085

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