“Beta Batman”

RatchedAngle · 2023-12-04T21:25:39+00:00

I have noticed a trend of young men mimicking “alpha” traits and young women falling into their trap and then patting themselves on the back for being “good submissive women.”

Any man can give orders. Any man. Any man can tell you what to do, how to dress, etc. It’s so easy to be dominant.

It is far harder to be a leader.

I once saw a woman come here for advice because her boyfriend/husband (can’t remember which) would always shut down and isolate himself from her every time he was struggling emotionally. This bothered her. She wanted him to at least communicate what was going on.

The comments overwhelmingly told her “that’s how men are, they don’t confide in women, just deal with it and be a good wife until he’s ready to interact with you again even if it takes a week or two.”

To me, this is bad advice. It’s also a sign that women are vetting for dominant men versus leaders.

A dominant man can disappear whenever he feels like it. A dominant man can fail to communicate. A dominant man can go AWOL as he pleases. In fact, a dominant man can do whatever he wants because your only role as a woman is to obey him. He doesn’t have the responsibilities of a leader even though you still have the responsibilities of a follower.

A leader doesn’t disappear when things get tough. If my boss decided to stop responding to all phone calls so that he could mope around for two weeks, he would be in huge trouble. His employees would lose trust in him. You don’t get to just disappear from your family because things get tough. You say to your wife, “Hey, I’m having a hard time right now at work. I don’t want to talk about it, but just know that I’m working through it and I’ll be okay. I’m going to take some alone time in the yard to work through this but if you or the kids need me, I’ll be outside. I love you.”

Too often we tend to coddle those dominant men who are pretending to be leaders.

Furthermore, a man working and earning money does not automatically earn him the title of leader. I’m so sick of this silly mentality. “Well he makes the money so he is the leader…”

No. He might pay for the groceries, but you’re the one who puts the food on the table. Your labor makes the meal. In that sense, you are equal.

So what actually qualifies a man as a leader? His behavior. His responsibilities. It’s a leader’s job to ensure the well-being of his entire family. Not just the physical safety, but the emotional well-being of his entire family. It’s his job to know what’s happening within the home. It’s his job to know what to do in emergencies, etc.

A dominant man, when asked, will not know the name of his child’s teacher or her pediatrician. He won’t know what to do if his child is choking. He won’t know what medications his wife takes.

A leader will know the answer to all of those questions because it’s his responsibility to handle business when things descend into chaos. If his wife ends up in the hospital, the medical staff will need to know what medications she takes, etc.

And that added responsibility is what earns the man added authority.

Do not obey men who refuse to shoulder added responsibilities.

FancyPants882 · 2023-12-04T23:15:05+00:00

This is spot on. It's all too easy to be duped by the aesthetic of alpha behaviours without realising that leadership qualities are seriously lacking.

Interestingly, I've experienced other men also being drawn to follow an "alpha" of the friendship group who is no more than a domineering bully with ego issues. So it's not just women who struggle with the distinction.

Cosima_Fan_Tutte · 2023-12-05T21:24:56+00:00

None of this is wrong, but in the comments there's some back and forth over dominant vs domineering vs leader....and I think there's not a dominant man (or leader) in the world who's also not at least occasionally domineering. That's just a side effect of a dominant leader personality.

Most desirable traits come with a downside, and that is certainly true of traits as potent as male dominance and leadership. There are no perfect, always-moderate, always level-headed dominant men... otherwise they wouldn't be dominant. Leaders will need to make unpopular decisions and stand firm against resistance in pursuit of the big picture, otherwise they wouldn't be leaders.

I think women can weigh their desire for male dominance/leadership against their own personalities (there's a good post somewhere on RPW on aligning dominance levels in male-female relationships). Maybe you won't jive with a very dominant man as well as you think you will! Or maybe your "man worthy of respect" is in fact a guy who demands that you stop [whatever undesired behavior]--anything less and you'll just scoff in his face!

And, women need to consider stuff like: -Do our values match (is the stuff he feels strongly about also what I value?)

-Does he know when/how to keep his dominance in check? (Can he read a room?)

-Is he willing to consider or at least acknowledge other opinions?

-Is it safe to push against him? Can he take it with grace?

-If dominance/leadership are very important to me, am I willing to make a trade off for other traits?

Edit: Here's the post on dominance levels that I cited: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/s/UtQfWSw3wb. I'll go as far as to say it's the most important post on RPW!

VasiliyZaitzev · 2023-12-05T18:31:26+00:00

Thoughts?

Some solid points but you also have to consider that women, particularly young women, benefit from structure. Do I have rules for my LTRs (when I have one) and OLTRs? Yep, and I don't apologize for it. I explain them, and if a girl wants to nope out, she can nope out. I am not entitled to a relationship with a woman solely on my terms, nor is a woman entitled to a relationship with me solely on her terms. I tend to date introvert girls so they are usually 100% on board anyway and the typical reaction is "I am fine with these, they are all for my safety."

That said, there is a danger between (correctly) distinguishing between a "Dominant" (Leader) man and a "Domineering" (Insecure) man. That can fairly quickly turn into: Whatever is preventing the woman from doing whatever she wants to do, regardless of whether it is a good idea or not means the guy is "CONTROLLING!" and "INSECURE!" That very often comes from a woman's friends, particularly their single friends because, as men say: single women keep other women single.

Either way, assuming both parties want to stay in the relationship, a framework is a good idea.

AutoModerator · 2023-12-04T20:53:15+00:00

Title: “Beta Batman”

Author Scared-Tea-8911

Full text: Hi all!

As the “manosphere” becomes more mainstream, I’ve noticed in some of y’all’s post that pretty toxic/controlling behavior seems to be a bit of a trend. These boys will breathlessly growl in a Batman voice: “You are my responsibility… heavy breathing I am responsible for your safety. So, to keep you safe… you are not allowed to come out drinking with me.” And in the next breath throw a childish fit about not being “allowed” to go to a strip club!

Hiding insecurity behind truly desirable “alpha traits” like being protective is 1. Very cringe, and 2. Makes it very difficult to vet or know what to look for. I use the term “Batman” because he always has come off so overwrought and contrived to me… his moral story arc is actually pretty shallow, and built on some pretty toxic/unlikeable traits.

Below are some questions to ask yourself, next time you think you might be in the room with a “Beta Batman”: - Is this genuine concern for my well being? Or is this a “preference” being foisted on me as a form of control? A concerned boyfriend saying “hey hon, you’ve been drinking a lot more than usual lately… we should take a break from alcohol, I’m concerned for you.” is a lot different than “you are mine and I demand that you stop going out because it makes me mad nya!” - Is this secretly “negging”/tearing me down to puff himself up? Or is this criticism legitimate and I should listen to my captain? The difference between: “hon you told me you were going paleo… why did you order a bagel?” vs “woah are you going to eat all of that? Aren’t you concerned about your figure?” - Am I willingly submitting to a strong and worthy partner? Or is a little boy demanding I cosplay a “submissive wifey” for him? Men who demand things like foot rubs/cold beer when they get home/dinner on the table at 6 tend to be cosplaying some version of “traditional relationships” before he has given you the commitment and benefits of marriage/long-term partnership that could merit such behavior. - Has he earned my respect by being a strong and respectable partner? Or is he demanding respect without respectable actions to go with it? Shrilly screaming “you will respect me!!” and throwing a tantrum is not how a truly masculine man behaves. - Does care and consideration flow both ways? Or are you pouring and pouring into a broken vessel (or, to frame it another way, are you flinging cash at any cab going past without its lights on)? Is he emotionally available, or do you feel the need to pry availability out of him?

I don’t usually make posts like this, but lately I have seen so much more of this behavior cropping up in our group - women who think these “alpha behaviors” (which are not really good captain behaviors!) are something desirable or tolerable to screen for.

Respect a man worthy of respect. Love and serve a man worthy of love and service. Women in male-led relationships are not doormats to any man who walks along… being highly selective is the tradeoff for the vulnerability, service, and value-added things RPW give their partners!

Thoughts?

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AutoModerator · 2023-12-04T20:53:16+00:00

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Title	“Beta Batman”
Author	Scared-Tea-8911
Upvotes	52
Comments	26
Date	December 4, 2023 8:53 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/18au18w/beta_batman/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/beta-batman.1240051 https://theredarchive.com/post/1240051

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