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Some hilarious straw-man arguments about TRP

nicethingyoucanthave · 2013-11-19T22:57:41+00:00

found this on /r/thebluepill. lolled. http://i.imgur.com/qutEGRb.png You'd think a group that obsesses over us would have a more accurate picture. But I...

nicethingyoucanthave

November 19, 2013

11 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	Some hilarious straw-man arguments about TRP
Author	nicethingyoucanthave
Upvotes	11
Comments	61
Date	November 19, 2013 10:57 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1r0ijm/some_hilarious_strawman_arguments_about_trp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/some-hilarious-straw-man-arguments-about-trp.8088 https://theredarchive.com/post/8088

Comments

[–][deleted] 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]hiyuh 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]PenguinLovr 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]puaSenator1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Of course you can be a nice guy. Most people would consider me a nice guy. But when we use the term "nice guy" in this sub, we are referring to something else. The "nice guy" is the guy that unconsciously puts others before him. He's always trying to please people, avoid conflict, avoid rocking the boat, agrees with everyone, puts women on a pedestal, and is generally needy. Typically the nice guy is the guy that never says no to a chick, is afraid to upset her, never challenges her, is always buying her things, and so on.

I'd really recommend reading some of the material in the side bar covering the "nice guy". An overwhelming amount of men are "nice guys". Many believe this has to do with early childhood indoctrination. Society tells men to do things for women to earn their affection. We are also raised in an environment where young boys are always trying to impress their female superiors by doing things they want from us, from teachers to their single mother -- they are always doing what women want and at this early age, are rewarded for doing whatever women ask of them. This hardwires most boys, so by the time they get older, and with the additions of media telling young men to always be super romantic by treating her like a princess, boys never actually grow up into self reliant, alpha men that women desire.

[–]PenguinLovr2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Okay. Sorry, I just was curious. I'm a female and I always found a lot of stuff on rp focuses on insulting or being mean to the girl. When dating that's fine if its done a certain way but in a ltr the girl does need to feel loved by the person, she needs the feeling of being cared about. Its an emotional need that women might not have at the beginning because they get lots of attention. But once you enter ltr territory you need to be able to take on the burden of being the sole person who gives her the attention she really wants. You don't need to shower her with compliments and gifts, but you also cant completely neglect her desire to be wanted (a very basic desire) and also to be respected and loved.

I know there is stuff on the sidebar but the target audience is not me. I gave up on reading everything there because some of it makes me upset but I don't dissgree entirely with trp.

[–]puaSenator2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There are a lot of opinions here and sometimes if you just take it at face value you'll end up having the typical false understandings of TRP, such as TRP suggesting treating women you want a LTR with like shit. It sometimes sounds like this because of the language we use. But it's mostly us saying, "don't just let her get away with being selfish. Or it's okay to tell her no when you don't want to do something or don't like something she's doing." It's more about telling guys to live their own life, grow a spine, and man up.

For instance, say she is being over emotional about a subject that can't be discussed in an emotional state. So we'd recommend telling her, "no I won't talk about this now until you settle down and we can talk like adults." Some see this as being a dick, and even some members would say, "wow being a dick works!" Because to them standing up and taking control of the situation was what they thought was dick behavior when they were beta. The guys girls were sleeping with but calling assholes were the guys that weren't putting up with their shit. So these guys sometimes call this behavior akin to being an asshole.

But what he's really doing when he says this is taking control of the situation and responsibly leading it into a conductive frame. He's also setting up his boundaries with her by saying, "I do not enjoy having counterproductive arguments in an overly emotional state. I will not do this." Women respect this -- even men, but TRP's main focus is women, so we don't really care for having to qualify and remind people that also men respect men with boundaries. We know from experience that women do respect a man who sets up boundaries, takes the lead, and controls the frame.

But, some people see this as being a dick because its easier to communicate around here by saying "girls like assholes sometimes" -- or those guys that we used to falsely think were assholes when we were blue pill "nice guys". Rather than having to type out everything I just did with you, every single time we want to get this point across, it's just easier to say women like assholes. So, understandably, outsiders like yourself who haven't read up on our foundations get a different narrative than what was intended.

[–]PenguinLovr1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't think the guy is being an asshole in this situation, he is demanding respect though and I can respect that. If a girl is emotional about something though that's not about the relationship then I think its okay for the guy to give in because maybe she just wants to be held or stroked or something. Like if she were crying over a deceased relative. But girls have their moments when they direct their stress towards the guy and nag or get pissed over something small. Usually all it takes is my guy telling me what I am doing is upsetting him to reconsider my actions. I don't want to upset him, vice versa. I want to respect him, vice versa.

I come on trp to get tips on how to make my man feel more loved. Some of the stuff here disturbs me but I have taken a different approach to my ltr due to trp. I have become a lot less selfish, and view him with a lot more respect as the man in the relarelationship.

I feel as a women I have been conditioned to try to take an equal part in the relationship by trying to take control of situations or argue my view point at all costs etc. Trp made me realize this hurts my man and sometimes its better to just tell him he is right and hug him or playfully joke with him rather than getting super upset and turning everything into a fight

[–]puaSenator1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't think the guy is being an asshole in this situation

Of course not. But you need to understand, many guys were falsely lead to believe that this behavior is asshole behavior in their blue pill days. Most people don't think this is asshole behavior after TRP, and once it's actually broken down. However, again, this sub has a wide breadth of terminology that has a lot of philosophy behind it.

Most people come here, and read us recommend he be an asshole and interpret it as, "Just berate her and make her cry in the corner, in the hopes that you'll find one insecure girl with daddy issues that'll have a psychological trigger and sleep with you!" That's simply not the case. But that's how most people on the outside view it.

Honestly, if you want really good tips, your best bet would to go learn from fellow female fishermen. Personally, I think /r/RedPillWomen is garbage because there isn't really enough philosophy and substance behind it. I would HIGHLY recommend a book by laura schlessinger called proper care and feeding of husbands.

Clearly both sexes think differently, which is causing quite a bit frustration on both sides, since social forces are trying to make us think the same. One of the biggest issues with women is failing to understand what a man wants and desires in his partner. Most women think he would naturally want what she wants, but that's not the case. This book is written by a woman, for women, which brilliantly explains the misconceptions most women have as well as just how to generally be a good SO. It's by far the defacto female version of TRP.

[–]PenguinLovr1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]puaSenator1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PenguinLovr1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Oh okay. I still have this misconception that rp men want women who will just go with whatever they want to do and not question it all. But women like myself actually can be very lucid and think logically. Its how I have a 3.8 as a computer engineer and why the company I work for really value me and offered me a competitive but generous package. I get this feeling from trp men like quiet, average intelligence women who don't argue and don't have an opinion. Who dont question things or think about things. I feel like I'm the opposite of all that. I feel like I can really fit in with my male coworkers due to a lot of these qualities but I wanna be a different person with my bf. I want to make him happy. At work, I want to be successful. Two different goals. I wonder if ill have to manage two different personalities.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my posts. You are the first rational trper I have had a discussion with. I deleted my old account because I was embarassed at how defensive I'd get on thia sub but ultimately I'm here to learn and understand the male POV. And how not to be one of those girls guys here complain about.

[–]puaSenator1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No problem. I actually enjoy it. There are a lot of misconceptions around TRP and I don't mind spending time on it. Even though everyone tells me I'm wasting my time. I feel like TRP is extremely valuable, and the only problem is that no one has ever explained it in a normal English way, so it's vilified.

Honestly, I don't think most men want what you are saying. Again, I think it's a language issue, as well as some guys personal preference. Personally, I enjoy women that challenge me, are smart, and even occasionally emotional. I think what men mainly want is a feminine woman. Sometimes that's the 50s housewife, but it's not exclusive to that. What men really want is to feel like they are the leader of the household. That doesn't mean you being coy, shy, submissive, and have no opinion. It means respecting him the same way he respects you.

For instance, if he had a really stressful day at work, you should definitely recognize his hard work and make him feel like his sacrifice is providing for his woman. Even if you make more money, just make him feel like that, because men like to feel like the provider. So think of some way to express this through action. A good way would to make a decent dinner, and when he gets home, lay him down, message him, turn on Sportscenter, give him a kiss, and go to finishing cooking the dinner. This way, he feels valued and his role as a man is making you happy. Yes, I'm sure you'd like it if he did this for you, but this is SO MUCH more important for men.

Another example would be something as simple as deciding on what movie to watch. It's perfectly okay to debate which movie to watch and give your point. But most men are used to just giving up on bothering to argue and watching something they rather not watch, so they just give in. But what they really want to do is make the decision when it's important to them. If you want to watch some show but he REALLY wants to watch another show. Just don't continue arguing with him. Let him have his way. It means a lot when she respects HIS needs. Or say you want to go somewhere that he doesn't want you to go. Feel free to try and make your case, however, when you can tell he's serious, respect his wishes. Don't try and change his mind. Often, men just stop trying and you can no longer tell if they are serious, because they are so used to losing. Again, men like to feel valued in the relationship, like you want them. And if you just keep arguing, not listening, and decide to just go, he feels like he has lost your attraction to him, which is a blow to his ego.

This is where we talk about female solipsism(sp?). They have no clue in what men want from their women, because women are always looking at it from their perspective and don't understand men value different social dynamics in different ways than women do for different reasons. For instance, you may not care when he's out until 11 with his buddies, so you may think he shouldn't care when you are out until 11 with your GFs. But for many men, they do care, for reasons entirely different than yours. But again, women tend to even try and understand WHY there is a double standard here. They just think it's unfair and then go on to bitch about it.

Women tend to always try and get their way, which is a constant topic on TRP, because they are simply used to always getting their way. Throughout men's lives, they have been constantly sacrificing themselves for women, and women have been getting what they want from men for the most part. So naturally this becomes the norm -- men give their all to women, and women just smile and enjoy all that men have done, without actually being reciprocal. Women tend to not care how their man feels about this social exchange, which tends to frustrate guys. They forget how often we sacrifice what we want for them, and it often goes unnoticed. Which is why we so often talk about telling a woman no, making the decisions, and so on... We don't want to HAVE to do this, but women often don't allow us to do this. So we recommend to just start doing it anyways. Ironically, once men start forcing these new boundaries and rules, women stop trying to constantly try and walk all over him and constantly get their way. Subsequently, making the man happier in the relationship because he finally feels respected for all he brings to the relationship, which in turn, makes her happier because he's now far more attracted to her(I promise, you guys will fight less. He'll do more for you. You'll become an even greater object of his desire). Do we WANT to have to go about it this way? Of course not. However, many of us believe that feminism has given women so much privilege that women are constantly wanting and trying to get more and more while completely neglecting men's desires. We much rather not have to force these boundaries and sternness, but women no longer naturally try and care for their men in the ways they want to be cared for.

Again, you should read the book I mentioned. It goes over all of this plus much more in great detail. You shouldn't have to have two personalities: one for work and one for home.

Also, I'm actually enjoying these conversations. I've been meaning to carve out an essay that explains TRP in a way that outsiders would understand the philosophy behind it without all the terminology and triggering language. So far I've covered solipsism, "the nice guy", "being an asshole", and what men really want from a woman. That's like half of it already! I think most of what I said isn't too controversial and makes some sense.

[–]PenguinLovr1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It does. I guess I dont understand the complaints about women because I came from an all girls middle and high school so I don't have this idea of women privilege. At the same time, I have no idea how a man thinks. I have already kind have written it off that I would never understand but since you are so good at explaining then let me ask.

We have quite a nice budding dynamic. I have crohns disease and i am involved in manythings so it gets stressfull. Sometimes I have hard days and need him to just be there for me. He helps me out by cleaning for me a lot but also by telling me to do things. I have lots of clothes (which ive bought myself mostly since ive been working since i was 16 so i can afford it) so I can go 3 weeks or more without doing laundry. Once I do it, there's so much to fold I gey overwhelmed. But the other day he really stressed how much he wanted me to do it so I did it while he was at work. We talked on the phone and he seemed pleasantly surprised and was in a good mood when he got home!

I have a really good meal plan which has high quality home made type food because I'm in a sorority. From the beginning I have included him in this meal plan. Even though I don't cook for us, I still make sure he gets fed. I always let him choose what he wants from the menu, and I usually go with what he picks because its easier for the caterer.

He loves hockey so I became a huge fan and genuinely so. I love watching the game with him and going to games. I encourage him to drink beers in my room even though were technically not allowed to have alcohol in the sorority. Fuck it, he matters more than some stupid rule.

He loves skiing and I tries it. Even though I hated it at first, because I'm not in the best shape and it sucks at the beginning since you are falling all the time I got the hang of it after 3 seperate skii trips and we ended up going down some trails which were really long and sort of average skilln level (blues) and he loved it

Whenever I have an excuse to make myself look good I take it because he likes it. ;)

I feel like there's still more I need to work on. I recently started smoking again due to stress at school and he wants me to stop. He would like if I went to the gym more and showered more often. Those are his major complaints. Also he just woke up and is telling me I should sleep haha idk why. He said he wouldn't love me anymore if I didn't. Guess I should go now :p

Edit: forgot to ask the question. Is this along the lines of how I should act you think? Thanks...:)

[–]PenguinLovr1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Omg the interaction we had was just the cutest thing. Its been a while since I've seen him in his just waking up state so he was cranky but I was cheerful and happy to see him and everything. Not sure why he kept telling me to go to sleep when I asked he said because he's my master and he rules me. He said he wouldn't love me anymore if I didn't go to sleep. Whatever I told him I wasn't going to sleep just yet because I got to see him haha. I then tell him I'm glad he's not always like this but even when he's at his worst I still like it. He told me he was going to kill me and I giggled. He said he felt like shit and I said he needed more sleep. He said he doesn't get enough sleep because I say "oh its still early" without realizing its late for him and because I want to spend more time with him. I said what time do you wanna go to bed. He said 11, I said okay you'll go to sleep then. What time do you want me to stop talking? He said 10:30 and I laughed. Then he asked if he had to go to this event my sorority was having. I said he had to go but he could leave early. Then when he went to kiss me bye he joked about my morning breath and I joked about I have nightmares about his morning breath. I said I loved him and he said it back.

Usually my boyfriend isn't this insulting which means ill allow it on occasion. If I'm in a particularly bad mood or depressed I ask him to hold off on the teasing because i need encouragement at those times. But I think the teasing is fun :)

[–]TRP Vanguardnicethingyoucanthave[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You were told that men and women are the same?

Yes, and so were you. You may not have recognized it - in the same way that a person in the '50s may not have recognized the racism and sexism all around him.

You grew up with it so it's invisible to you. You have to have your awareness raised.

Find some socially-acceptable dating advice and notice how careful they are to avoid suggesting men and women are different (other than, obviously sexual organs). They wont say, "women like X, while men don't" - they'll say, "turns out, women like X too" (implying that men and women are the same).

It's not socially acceptable to say that men and women have vastly different tastes, preferences, and behaviors. That's sexist! Any observed differences are a result of our oppressive culture.

That's the narrative you've been fed your entire life. The top post over on /r/askwomen right now is "What are some "harsh truths" about the dating world?" and nobody is saying anything like, "men and women are different." All the "harsh truths" apply equally to men as to women.

A real harsh truth is that men are attracted to physical beauty, in particular signals of youth. Women are attracted to social status. There are studies that back this up. I mentioned it once over in /r/thebluepill and got an incredulous [citation needed] which I happily provided.

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[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Too far in what direction?

The whole point of a discussion group that encourages rational examination of the politically incorrect is to rationally examine the politically incorrect. If we say "that's too provocative, don't say that", we defeat the purpose.

The limit on what one can say in rational discourse (as opposed to postmodern discourse) is not someone else's feelings. It's contradictory evidence. And presentation of that happens within the discussion, not by disallowing the discussion.

If we think of a hateful thing I could possibly say about, for example, John Cleese, then it makes sense. If I say "John Cleese is a drug-addicted child molester", and you say "You ought not to say hateful things about John Cleese", then you've missed the point.

If it's true, then I ought to be saying it, no matter how much it hurts John Cleese's feelings or reputation, and your objection is irrelevant.

If it's not true, then my statement needs to be dismissed, but not because it is hurtful. Instead, it needs to be dismissed because it is false. Which means that, while my statement is objectionable, your specific objection is the wrong objection.

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