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[–]wanking_the_monkey 129 points130 points131 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
she was trying to remove his hand from around her waste
ಠ_ಠ
[–]jumpijehosaphat 47 points48 points49 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
kinky
[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Right in the pooper
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Probably read this novel and decided it was worth pursuing.
[–]cgaff 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
As I try to picture this in action it just seems as if they are 69'ing standing up...
[–]roque72 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hiii-dee ho!
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's some intimate kino!
[–][deleted] 33 points34 points35 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
There's a lesson to be learned in respecting personal space and still escalating kino in a smooth consistent manner.
That said, without more details I'm assuming these guys were drunk and belligerent. I don't think most PUAs are so brazen to open a set of 5+ and then just squeeze their way into the middle in a threatening manner. Anyone who's watched in-field pickup video should know there's a respectful way to hook a set and successfully open them by simply using a verbal hookpoint to catch their attention. Not sure these guys were running game so much as trying to be overly dominant, you hinted at them being good looking guys so I assume that's why they were so arrogant.
This post looks like it's going to be upboated to the top but really if you are even intermediate or newb status, if you have a basic understanding of psychology, touching a sensitive point such as a girl's waist without building rapport is invasive and disqualifies you from the whole set. This of course excludes situations where girls literally are waiting for you to grab them by the waist and grind them, or maybe this is just a college clubbing thing.
[–]frogma 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
To take it down to basic seduction "lessons," these guys weren't calibrating at all. Calibration, in most cases, means that you can't just ignore social dynamics, you can't just ignore a certain girl's belief-system, etc. If you completely ignore things like that, you're just biting yourself in the foot.
Social dynamics tell us that it's usually not a good idea to immediately put your arm around a girl's waist (there are plenty of exceptions to that, but those exceptions prove the rule). When everyone's drunk and having a good time, it might be okay to do, especially if you've already gauged the girl's relationship status, whether or not she's with friends, etc. I've done it a lot, but in almost all of those situations, I first tried to make sure that she'd be okay with it. And especially while doing it -- or immediately afterward -- I made sure to appear non-threatening, which these guys clearly didn't do.
It's a bit complicated because a common piece of advice here (that I agree with) is that you should overwrite the girl's "reality" with your own "reality." That's generally true, and generally good advice, but you also have to be aware of the dynamics. That's why you calibrate.
Let's say I'm talking to a girl who seems to be fairly insecure/shy -- I'll probably still try to get her to open up, I'll still be more physical, etc. But now let's say she's extremely insecure, and she mentions that she's been in therapy for stuff like that. Assuming I still like her, I'm gonna calibrate to her, and I'm not gonna be so touchy-feely.
Especially with older women who are likely married, I'm not gonna open by being really physical/sexual, because her husband might be right around the corner. And that's happened to me like 4 times in the past month -- I'll be talking to a girl, pretty nonchalantly, then her husband shows up at the bar, I realize they're married, and then I back off (but I still usually talk to them for a bit if they're cool).
Calibration's a complicated thing to talk about, because it's purposely vague. But this is a case where some calibration would've helped these guys to not make asses of themselves. Like most people have said, they were probably just drunk, and likely just douchebags in general. Douchebags aren't gonna worry about calibration -- and it'll often work out in their favor. Except for this time, where it clearly didn't.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The d-bags from the story probably weren't thinking in terms of game mechanics, but I think noobs get confused by people alternating giving advice to "calibrate" and "impose your frame". We often hear people say, the stronger frame wins, assume attraction, be dominant and aggressive. But this isn't always the case, as you mention.
[–]frogma 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yep. It's not a science, so there's never a right answer. We just try to figure out what can work in a lot of situations. There will always be examples where it doesn't work at all. Similar to how psychology tends to follow different concepts, based on which classical psychologist/philosopher you tend to agree with. Nobody has ever decided that one of those people were "right" or that others were "wrong." Human interaction can't follow absolutes, so there will always be differing opinions (if it could follow absolutes, we'd all be getting laid 24/7).
[–]cliftonixs 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Hi, if you’re reading this, I’ve decided to replace/delete every post and comment that I’ve made on Reddit for the past 12 years.
No, I won’t be restoring the posts, nor commenting anymore on reddit with my thoughts, knowledge, and expertise.
It’s time to put my foot down. I’ll never give Reddit my free time again unless this CEO is removed and the API access be available for free. I also think this is a stark reminder that if you are posting content on this platform for free, you’re the product.
To hell with this CEO and reddit’s business decisions regarding the API to independent developers. This platform will die with a million cuts.
You, the PEOPLE of reddit, have been incredibly wonderful these past 12 years. But, it’s time to move elsewhere on the internet. Even if elsewhere still hasn’t been decided yet. I encourage you to do the same. Farewell everyone, I’ll see you elsewhere.
[–]iLEZ 9 points10 points11 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
"When a girl shoves you back and tells you to leave" you've gone pretty damn far away from the social interaction part of this whole idea.
[–]Wollff 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Wait, what? Since when does social interaction have anything to do with PUA?
Look, here is the comprehensive list: Just get yourself a wingman, and there you go.
Open up a promising set (Don't be intimidated by your approach anxiety! Your whole body and mind scream: "This is a dumb idea!"? Don't listen!)
Show confidence (cocky funny! alpha male! neg! don't put pussy on a pedestal!)
Kino early, kino often (don't be shy!)
Isolate (obviously only after you have built rapport and demonstrated value by the above. DUH!)
Escalate
Can you honestly tell me that you haven't seen that kind of list before? After all this is how this whole seduction business started 10 or so years ago. And this is where that fiasco came from. The "PUA in 10 easy steps"-guides don't exactly emphasize the social interaction part.
Let me tell you something that will let your faith in humanity wane even further: Those guys will interpret their adventure in a very interesting way.
Obviously they will use their experience to refine their game. Even 10 steps to PUA guides include a "How to deal with failure"-clause. They crashed and burned during step 4. And that's where they will find their mistake. It's pretty obvious in hindsight. PUAs talk about what happened to them all the time.
Those guys obviously failed to isolate their targets successfully, and were then cockblocked by that girl who thought that she had to protect her friends. And that, when they were just getting ready to have some fun. Well, gotta be a bit more forceful next time, bro... That's what being alpha is all about.
There is a problem here. To many this whole seduction thing is so attractive, because it promises success with women, without having to get into all that complicated "social interaction" stuff. And if not success, then at least the feeling that you got soooo close ("Step 4 of 5 bro, and then I got cockblocked by that HB 9.5 who couldn't deal with the fact that I wasn't hitting on her...").
But I am preaching to the choir here anyway.
I upvoted you, and I agree, but the stuff you're describing is more focused on some of the bullshit "seduction" sites that are only trying to make money -- so they tell you to do "5 steps", and if you didn't do them "right," that's your own fault and the blame can't be placed on them. This is one of the main reasons why most people in the community don't follow the "Mystery Method," and why most current PUAs focus on more "natural" approaches/interactions.
[–]Icouldshitallday 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Especially within the first minute of meeting. No need to say goodbye; just turn around and walk.
[–]galactic_fury 8 points9 points10 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
look for the ring! Its the first thing I do when meeting a new girl :)
[–]Tighten_Up 9 points10 points11 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
All my friends do this. I NEVER remember to do it.
[–]UnapologeticalyAlive 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I spent a whole night talking to five girls and having a great time. At the end, I asked the one I liked the most for her number. Then she pointed out the ring on her finger, and the fact that her friend didn't have a ring and had been very interested in me. By that time it was too late since the second one had already seen me ask the first one for the number. So ever since then I always look for the ring.
[–]frogma 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I mentioned above that I've talked to like 4 married girls in the past month before their husbands would come into the bar and I'd back off.
There was this one girl I'd seen like 3 times in the past five weeks or so, and every time I saw her, we'd both be really happy to see each other, we'd sit at the bar together, we'd flirt a bit, but for various reasons, I wouldn't try to make any moves. The latest time I was at that bar, she showed up, we were both excited to see each other, etc. After like 2 minutes, her husband walks in and introduces himself. Only then did I look at her left ring finger (and there was a bigass ring on it).
It sucked because this bar is a smallish bar, and she was one of the handful of decent girls I'd seen in the past few weeks. Not once did I ever check to see if she was married. We'd played plenty of darts together, we'd picked out songs on the jukebox together, we'd go outside to smoke together, and I just never entertained the notion that she might have a boyfriend (largely because she never hinted at it herself).
Main lesson there is that you should try to make your intentions known somehow, as early as you can, if for no other reason than to know it's not an option. Just like 2-3 weeks ago, I was talking to this black girl who had come into the bar with a guy -- they were sitting together, talking a lot, and they happened to be right next to me, so I joined their conversation without any problems (hint #1). The girl wanted to play darts, and the guy didn't want to play at all, and he basically told me to go play with her (hint #2). We went and played, and while I was beating the shit out of her, I would occasionally put my arm around her and tell her I was just getting lucky (though I clearly wasn't -- I'm pretty good at darts). The guy never came over to us or anything (hint #3). At one point, I was dying for a smoke, so she came outside with me despite being a nonsmoker (hint #4), and we ended up making out outside for a bit (hint #5 I guess). We went back inside and I went back to some friends I'd been talking to before, so she left not long after that. Point is, that guy clearly wasn't her boyfriend, and it would've been presumptuous of me to assume he was.
That's not a great example because I never made my intentions too obvious until the end, but even while I was talking with her and the guy, I'd make some light jokes about her while constantly "defending" the guy's POV even when I completely disagreed with him. That's Flirting 101.
[+][deleted] -7 points-6 points-5 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
+100 points if you get the married one lol
[–]monkeyjazz 10 points11 points12 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
no
[–]caesarfecit 10 points11 points12 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Takeaway - what drives guys to act like this, this is the question. In my experience its a combination of these factors:
Neediness - you need to be detached from a pre-determined outcome. Go with what you're given, be optimistic, and learn how to recognize that non-ideal situations/outcomes still have value, if you're prepared to recognize it. The girl who shot you down could also be the one who gets you laid with someone better - it has happened.
Not Reading The Signs - you match your attitude to yourself and your audience. Don't go hyper-aggressive (or super passive either) until the context clearly calls for it. And yes, keep an eye out for the ring!!!
Not In Control Of Self - You can't fly off the handle or react on impulse when shit doesn't go your way. Male or female, hot or not, this is universally unattractive.
[–]Vpicone 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I hope you don't say "peeps" in real life.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Jebus, your fucking grammar! ಠ_ಠ
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They were trying to physically move the girls one spot of the bar to the within the first few seconds of them all meeting.
[–]Koi___ 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
This is why I have crippling approach anxiety - I'm scared to death of not picking up on social cues like this. (It's happened before - once this woman told me she had AIDS just to make me go away before I caught on)
[–]cliftonixs 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's ok to have a little bit of approach anxiety, in fact it never goes away but you can have an understanding of it. Continue to go out and practice, learn from the forums here, and you'll be alright.
[–][deleted] 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
Why is that a hint to leave? Maybe i'm oblivious too haha. I would have to see all the body language and other social cues to know.
[–]Icouldshitallday 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
One of my favorite pastimes is to go to the bar just to people watch. You really can learn so much of what not to do, ex. this; and what to do, ex. don't hesitate to dance.
[–]tyrryt 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
a chill little two bedroom place with about 8 peeps.
One other thing you should never do: say things like this.
[–]merv243 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You're not wrong.
What, the peeps part?
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
What a useless post. 'I was hanging out with hot babes this weekend, and I learned that you shouldn't be rapey!'
Other than pointing out you are a cool guy and letting us know how hot your friends are, were you trying to do anything besides shaming guys by lumping us in with two bozos?
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You seem like a miserable douche
If I told you that you had a nice body would you hold it against me?
[–]cliftonixs 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
When a girl shoves you back and tells you to leave, take a step back and ease off, or get a drink to the face.
[–]redonrust 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Hey, it wasn't these guys was it ?
They would have done better and be more entertaining.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This > Twilight
[–]UnapologeticalyAlive -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Still a better love story
[–]poonpanda 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
New joke please
[–]stqism 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They were a drunk, acting like douch bags, assuming the girls were whores/gold diggers, and attempted what some would classify as rape...
Theirs a lesson to be learned in proper seduction.
[–]kingcal -5 points-4 points-3 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
There's never a reason to throw a drink on someone. Shit is so unclassy.
[–]In_Liberty 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There's never a reason to throw a drink on someone. There are sober children in Africa who would love that $12 mojito.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Uh yeah there deinitely is. Youre a grl and some strange guy starts mnhandling you, grabbing on you and acting like a douche. Thats unclassy. Clearly you have not been out much
[–]kingcal -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I've been out plenty and seen enough drinks thrown to know it just makes you look cheap. It's the same as starting a fight in a bar. If you hit on a guy's girl and he throws a punch, do people think he's justified or cool? No, they think he's an asshole. The same goes for throwing a drink.
I see what youre saying, and im sure plenty get thrown by dumb ass bitches. But if you put your hands all over a stranger and wont get off of her or just leave them alone after being told to stop, then its time for a douchebag to get a liquid wake up call
[–][deleted] 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]roque72 6 points7 points8 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
They were just two wild and crazy guys
[–]Wollff 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You mean alpha males!
[–]KickinInShangers 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They pretended not to notice our bulges heh heh heh.
[+]zeezbrah -10 points-9 points-8 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
honestly, there's nothing wrong with how they started off the situation. they just come across as douches to you guys; think about it from their perspective. They approached with confidence. They attempted kino. They were determined. Kudos to them.
[–]teddy_ 10 points11 points12 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
The problem is not respecting when being told to fuck off
[–]zeezbrah 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, I completely disagree with how they handled the situation after initially engaging. I just wanted to point out that they didn't handle the situation entirely poorly. Also wanted to say that it's not all black and white. OP sounds like he's butthurt or something, because the story, to me, sounds completely one-sided with little consideration put to how these "douches" would've been experiencing the situation.
[–]teddy_ 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My lesson learned: always check for a ring on that finger haha
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
No one opens by grabbing a girl around the waist. That's not 'attempting kino,' that's suicide.
[–]zeezbrah 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
that's a generalization. edit: here's another one: anything's possible with confidence.
[+]KeepingTrack -6 points-5 points-4 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Cheers. For me (in HB's SO's place) it'd be more than a drink to the face.
HBs are perfectly capable of handling getting hit on.
You're talking about a good way to turn a minor diffusion of a couple sleazy guys approaching into a night ending fight. Never lose your cool if avoidable and no, fighting isn't cool.
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[–]wanking_the_monkey 129 points130 points131 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]jumpijehosaphat 47 points48 points49 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]cgaff 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]roque72 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 33 points34 points35 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]frogma 5 points6 points7 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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[–]frogma 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]cliftonixs 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]iLEZ 9 points10 points11 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Wollff 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]frogma 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Icouldshitallday 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]galactic_fury 8 points9 points10 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Tighten_Up 9 points10 points11 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]UnapologeticalyAlive 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]frogma 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]monkeyjazz 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]caesarfecit 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Koi___ 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Icouldshitallday 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]merv243 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]redonrust 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]cliftonixs 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]UnapologeticalyAlive -2 points-1 points0 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]poonpanda 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]stqism 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]kingcal -5 points-4 points-3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]In_Liberty 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]kingcal -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]roque72 6 points7 points8 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Wollff 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]KickinInShangers 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]zeezbrah -10 points-9 points-8 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]teddy_ 10 points11 points12 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]zeezbrah 3 points4 points5 points (4 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]zeezbrah 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]KeepingTrack -6 points-5 points-4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Icouldshitallday 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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